Yet another Piracy: Good or Bad? discussion

[Decado]

The people who tend to be the most nonchalant about this kind of piracy tend to be people who have never made anything in their lives. I am sure that is just a coincidence.

I live in a country where a primary m.d. in his 30ies makes a bit less than 4 euro per hour and his teacher wife less than 3. I'm sure your holier than thou attitude has nothing to do with living in a crystal bubble.

Your argument is basically "I can't afford it, so I steal it." Which makes sense for bread and clothes, and does not make sense for video games. Also, if you are making 4 Euro an hour as a doctor, you should probably have more important things on your mind than video games. Just sayin.

 

[mondblut]

Poorfags vs moralfags, who is more insufferable and why?

 

[Damned Registrations]

If someone had a patent on a particular recipe, would it be stealing to cook it yourself?

 

[Decado]

The problem with "I can't afford it, so I steal it," is that it breeds disrespect for the idea of intellectual property.

This is dangerous and irresponsible, because the concepts and philosophies behind intellectual property -- and, eventually, the laws codified to protect them -- are some of the most effective tools for moving from a production/material economy to a information/service economy. IP protections give you Silicon Valley. Now you can argue that the Valley has become a bloated playground for amoral capitol investors and autistic computer engineers, and that's fine. What you cannot argue with is the fact that they are fucking rich, and that the wealth does spread, and has spread, to influence the direction of the most powerful economy on planet Earth.

To put this another way: if your culture does not value IP, you will probably stay poor. Without protections on IP, the incentive for creative and informational work is drastically reduced. Look at China -- what was the last interesting, groundbreaking, and/or globally significant game/movie/book/app to come out of there? People don't make creative shit in China because they are too busy ripping off the shit other people have made. It has stunted them and they know it, which is why the Chinese government gets more ruthless on IP protection every day. The people who understand how this economy works know that if their shit can be freely stolen, they will go nowhere. Countries with strong IP protections drive innovation and creativity because the creators know they can work on something new and actually make a living doing it.

Attitudes accepting of IP piracy propagate the idea that IP has no value, that nobody's interests are hurt from the theft, that it is okay to just steal it. But without IP protections, people have a much lower incentive to make anything, especially anything digital, because it will just get fucking ripped off. The only people who could afford to make anything -- or more accurately, support other people to make something -- would be the ultra-rich, doling out patronage to creators. Which worked okay in the Renaissance, but fucking sucks now.

If you're poor but educated and capable, the last thing you should be doing is shitting on the concept of people getting paid for their digital creations. Digital assets such as apps, art, games, etc, represent one of the best returns on investment when you compare what it takes to make them -- a computer, an internet connection, a good idea, and some hard work -- to what you could get for making one them -- a decent wage, and maybe a breakthrough creative work that makes you fantastically rich.

Shitting on the idea of IP protections is short sighted idiocy, and is likely one of the reasons your society is still poor.

 

[Damned Registrations]

IP protections prevent just as much creativity, if not more, than they encourage. They prevent people from iterating on the ideas of others without access to fantastic amounts of wealth to outright buy those ideas. Silicon valley likely wouldn't exist if IP law had been as strong 100 years ago as it is today, because it'd have been illegal to create 95% of the software you freely use today.

There's also the issue that you're talking about an entirely separate (and shitty) motive for creation- greed. Creating something for profit means making a shitty version with planned obsolescence that appeals to the lowest common denominator and cannot be improved upon by anyone else. Creating something out of need or personal satisfaction means creating something to serve a purpose without any purposely added flaws and being perfectly fine with having other people improve upon it. If people really needed the profit motive to create anything useful ever, we'd still be up in the trees because fire doesn't make you fantastically rich when everyone you show it to just steals it.

You've got the causation reversed- poor cultures don't respect IP because it's a fucking scheme to extract wealth, and the only reason to put up with it is virtue signalling and fear of retaliation from immensely wealthy people.

 

[Viata]

Piracy is good. For example, had I played a pirate version of PoE instead of pre-ordered it, I wouldn't be shitting on this game every time I have an excuse to do so.

 

[abija]

Decado
Your fucking culture is based on thievery by any means necessary (including war). Your information/service economy is built abusing countries like mine with strong and free school systems. Stop preaching bullshit.
IP protections didn't make Bill Gates obscenely rich. Stealing billions from poor countries with pressure from your government (or simply by bribing officials) did.

 

[mondblut]

^ so far poorfags seem to be winning in my little contest.

 

[fantadomat]

^ so far poorfags seem to be winning in my little contest.

And what kind of fag are you? The bitchy whiny one?

 

[Decado]

I didn't know there so many whiny commies on the Codex, holy shit.

 

[Decado]

You can delegitimize any system, idea, or philsophy on planet Earth by pointing to its excesses. It is the easiest thing in the world to do, and consequently the most useless. It is the last resort of the conversation idiot.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Not sure whether to break out the popcorn or the whiskey for this.

 

[mondblut]

^ so far poorfags seem to be winning in my little contest.

And what kind of fag are you? The bitchy whiny one?

Turkroach Ireneaus forgot to take his medication again.

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Popcorn it is.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You can delegitimize any system, idea, or philsophy on planet Earth by pointing to its excesses. It is the easiest thing in the world to do, and consequently the most useless. It is the last resort of the conversation idiot.

As opposed to invoking a vague concept of profit motive and hand waving all the details? If the most common examples of a thing are it's excesses, then the system, idea, or philosophy isn't legitimate, is it?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Oh joy, so now we are going to stand up straw men of the opposing views to criticize. Can't you do better?

 

[PorkBarrellGuy]

Oh joy, so now we are going to stand up straw men of the opposing views to criticize. Can't you do better?

Talking past one another is the new "dialogue".

 

[coldcrow]

Lots of confusion in here. It boils down to:
- people who really want to play the game and can't afford it in a sensible way: no sale is lost
- people who really want to play, can afford it but choose not to cause [reason] and would not play if no means of pirating the game were available: no sale is lost
- people who really want to play, can afford it, but pirate just because: sale is lost (still dubious)
- people who just play for a few minutes/1-2 hours then delete: no sale is lost because demo

Until someone gives some numbers, all this talk is pretty meaningless.

 

[fantadomat]

^ so far poorfags seem to be winning in my little contest.

And what kind of fag are you? The bitchy whiny one?

Turkroach Ireneaus forgot to take his medication again.

That is rich mate,the most buttfucked fag is rating me butthurt,you broke my hearth fag,now i will go cry in the corner for the next 6 hours. My soul is broken beyond repair!

Until someone gives some numbers, all this talk is pretty meaningless.

You are describing the codex and to be fair most forums and internet communities as a whole.

 

[Thane Solus]

there are games worth pirating in last years? or movies? ))

 

[the_shadow]

I didn't know there so many whiny commies on the Codex, holy shit.

Seems like some right-wingers are only right-wing up until they feel entitled to someone else's products/services. What's particularly galling is that PC games are luxury items. There is no statement in the Declaration of Human Rights that people are entitled to video games at a price that they feel is fair, any more than there is a statement saying that everyone is entitled to a Lamborghini.

 

[Blaine]

Seems like some right-wingers are only right-wing up until they feel entitled to someone else's products/services.

Right-wingers feeling entitled to goods and services, left-wingers supporting big government and the surveillance state... down is up! Dark is light! It's a topsy-turvy world, I tell you!

It's almost as though boiling everyone down to two polar opposite camps is nowhere near granular enough to really understand people and their complexities.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Seems like some right-wingers are only right-wing up until they feel entitled to someone else's products/services.

It's almost as though boiling everyone down to two polar opposite camps is nowhere near granular enough to really understand people and their complexities.

Wow, this discovery coming from you? That's some evolution...

 

[kris]

I was sure this was a thread about a new "Pirates!" game, quite disappointing.

 

[Damned Registrations]

What's particularly galling is that PC games are luxury items.

No, they're ideas. Admittedly a lot of ideas, but nonetheless, they aren't material goods. People feel entitled to ideas because those get shared all the time without any expectation of compensation. It takes no work. Expecting people to create PC games for you (do work) without compensation would be silly, but once they're out there, trying to hoard them is even more silly, especially in the digital age. Hoarding ideas is creating work for yourself for the express purpose of impoverishing other people.