Fallout Fallout 1 is the best RPG of all time that stood the test of time

[thesoup]

I'm afraid you lack the necessary reading comprehension to hold a basic conversation, which is a common trait among bloggers. You have no wit so stop trying to come up with "sick burns".

Dude, everyone in this thread thinks you’re being a moron (except the guy with the village idiot tag); Lilura merely did you the courtesy of addressing your “ideas” rather than ignoring them.

But, pray tell, what would you consider superior to Fallout? I can’t wait to hear this.

Nice argument. Popularity is a sign of quality. I'm sure you'll argue this in every case.

Lilura addressed literally nothing. Merely asked a mod to single out someone with an unpopular opinion.

I already mentioned one game I deem superior to F1. Learn to read.

Of course it features better UI and graphics

No.

I second that; FNV has many things done better and bigger than FO1 but being made on BETH engine is even bigger NO; its interface is console trash and graphics are dated in the moment of release 3D put onto piss filter with only stuf taken from old fallouts being fine from art direction point of view. Give dumbfuck tag to this consoltard philistine. If only they did released Van Burren.

Van Buren would have been watered down rtwp shit. Its cancellation was a blessing in disguise. Not that F3 was in any way better than what van buren would have been.

 

[Silva]

Stalker is better.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I'm afraid you lack the necessary reading comprehension to hold a basic conversation, which is a common trait among bloggers. You have no wit so stop trying to come up with "sick burns".

Dude, everyone in this thread thinks you’re being a moron (except the guy with the village idiot tag); Lilura merely did you the courtesy of addressing your “ideas” rather than ignoring them.

But, pray tell, what would you consider superior to Fallout? I can’t wait to hear this.

Nice argument. Popularity is a sign of quality. I'm sure you'll argue this in every case.

Lilura addressed literally nothing. Merely asked a mod to single out someone with an unpopular opinion.

I already mentioned one game I deem superior to F1. Learn to read.

Of course it features better UI and graphics

No.

I second that; FNV has many things done better and bigger than FO1 but being made on BETH engine is even bigger NO; its interface is console trash and graphics are dated in the moment of release 3D put onto piss filter with only stuf taken from old fallouts being fine from art direction point of view. Give dumbfuck tag to this consoltard philistine. If only they did released Van Burren.

Van Buren would have been watered down rtwp shit. Its cancellation was a blessing in disguise. Not that F3 was in any way better than what van buren would have been.

You hate the barren game world and writing in Fallout, but love the game world and writing in New Vegas, which tried to deliberately mimic... Fallout? SPECIAL is shit in Fallout, but it’s great in... New Vegas?

New Vegas is certainly a lot bigger. I suppose if you prefer to play a first/third person shooter RPG hybrid over a cavalier oblique turn-based RPG, I can see liking New Vegas more than Fallout 1. That’s mistaken but not insane.

But can you name an RPG outside of the Fallout franchise that you’d consider better? Can you name three? Five? If Fallout is still in, say, your top five RPGs, then I think your argument that it’s overrated is insincere. I am deeply curious.

Because arguing that New Vegas—the best RPG of the last decade—is better than Fallout, is very different from arguing that Fallout is vastly overrated/deeply flawed.

EDIT: I wasn’t citing popularity as a sign of quality above. I was citing the hivemind consensus on what is, alas, the most sophisticated RPG forum on the web. Nothing wrong with an argument from authority, but I mentioned this to explain why hardly anyone is taking you seriously.

Tim Cain et al spend years developing the engine and then the game itself. The only thing about Fallout that makes it seem like a bunch of dudes made it in their basement is the content, which was edgy as fuck when it came out (back when edgy was still good... e.g. they let you kill children). But in truth, Brian Fargo was totally on board with their vision and he supported the heck out of them, even when Steve Jackson pulled out and made them stop using GURPS because he hated the amazing opening video.

 

[Lilura]

Fallout 1 had dated graphics in 1999.

Most pure RPGs have dated graphics for their time; it's not about the gfx. However, Fallout's art direction was a masterpiece, from its UI to its sprites, backdrops, talking heads and death anims, whereas post-Morrowind Bethesda is ugly af (while trying to be beautiful/polished, which Fallout didn't: its aesthetics were gritty/raw) and exhibits very little artistry.

A few screencaps for you to consider.

Those who devalue Fallout in edgy l'il shitposts (like thesoup did) instantly lose all credibility and should just be purged from 'Dex.

 

[ilitarist]

Fallout 1 art direction is great and distinctive, yes. The only problem I see is that back in the 90's people thought that UI has to be thematic so Fallout UI is overloaded with decorative elements that don't look so rad to me. You have Undertail comparison and I haven't played this game but I can easily see what happens there while in Fallout 1 bottom screen you may think you've stumbled upon some sort of puzzle from Myst series.

But FNV has all of this and then some. It may not be innovative (most new things come in expansions) but it still has atmospheric dungeons and vaults, abandoned houses, all that jazz - and it's in relatively detailed 3D, not some sort of early 3D making games like Arx Fatalis. FNV is varied and interesting to look at and it has the same level of unique character.

 

[Ezeekiel]

This is why he has the village idiot tag.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

We now have people who genuinely think FNV has great UI and graphics in addition to great everything else? Some time ago I made a prediction that it will become top1 crpg of all time on nucodex by 2020 and it might just come true.

Still, saying that F3 UI is anything but offensively horrible is so amusingly retarded.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The point here however is that a lot of people claim fallout 1 is this sacred holy game that does everything well and no game ever is as good or better.

It feels like a half finished game someone did in his basement, which is basically what fallout is - the post mortem by Tim Cain made that clear. The entire game is interesting only in concept, everything but the ability to approach a problem is poorly executed. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. is trash, combat is retarded, companions are dumb and meaningless, the story and the game world are barren, boring and not particularly well written.

It was a project made out of boredom and for shits and giggles, eventually outgrowing its humble origins but lacking the execution to do so well.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Talks about safe spaces, wants people to leave. Aight.

 

[ilitarist]

1.5 years ago I got a lot of hate for arguing FNV is not that great. Now turns out I love it for much for pointing out an obvious fact that it's graphics and UI are better than in a game made 13 years previously. FNV UI isn't good but you can't defend a game where you need to use Steal skill to give ammo to your companions against FNV.

It's not like Fallout had some artistic genius working on it. Everything it has in design terms is ether replicated or improved in FNV.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

back in the 90's people thought that UI has to be thematic

A thematic UI is nice, yes.

 

[ilitarist]

Here's an example of 2D graphics that uses the medium in such a way that 3D can't do the same right:

Spoiler

Fallout doesn't lose anything by switching to 3d. You may argue that top-down perspective is better for RPG but it's another story.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Cuphead sure, but the other 2 can be done perfectly fine in 3D. What's your point exactly? Also that HOMM pic might very well have been done in 3d, wouldn't surprise me.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

It's not like Fallout had some artistic genius working on it. Everything it has in design terms is ether replicated or improved in FNV.

Ok, now you're just being an idiot on purpose. GLHF.

 

[Lilura]

Top-down 2d isometric is my ideal (Fallout, Jagged Alliance 2), though 3d Silent Storm with rotation/zoom works, too. Isometric = tactics and it looks great. I like working with angles. First-person isn't Fallout, nor is real-time.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Fallout 1 had dated graphics in 1999.

Most pure RPGs have dated graphics for their time; it's not about the gfx. However, Fallout's art direction was a masterpiece, from its UI to its sprites, backdrops, talking heads and death anims, whereas post-Morrowind Bethesda is ugly af (while trying to be beautiful/polished, which Fallout didn't: its aesthetics were gritty/raw) and exhibits very little artistry.

Seconded. Boyarsky is great at this stuff. The GUI lent a real sense of immersion and was actually quite minimalistic compared to previous RPGs where half the screen would be taken up by the user interface. Plus, let’s not forget about those awesome claymation faces.

Also, not to be pedantic, but even if this guy thinks the art looked dated in 1999, the game came out in 1997. I think it looks better than many of the genuine infinity engine games, aside from BG2’s more grandiose scenery and Sigil.

1.5 years ago I got a lot of hate for arguing FNV is not that great. Now turns out I love it for much for pointing out an obvious fact that it's graphics and UI are better than in a game made 13 years previously. FNV UI isn't good but you can't defend a game where you need to use Steal skill to give ammo to your companions against FNV.

It's not like Fallout had some artistic genius working on it. Everything it has in design terms is ether replicated or improved in FNV.

Fallout did have an artistic genius working on it—Leonard Boyarsky. Does New Vegas have better graphics? Sure. New Vegas is a phenomenal game. Fallout is better, not just for inventing the aesthetic and the world, but for having a superior, tighter story, for creating a much bleaker atmosphere with more of that post apocalyptic feel, and for using solid top down turn based RPG combat rather than meh FPS combat.

I dare say that 2010 Obsidian could potentially (maaaaaaybe) have made a modern Fallout that was superior to the originals, but they got saddled with a lot of suboptimal stuff by Bethesda.

 

[Sigourn]

F1 had psychic attacks of sorts but it was vague and in background

Even then it was no reason to dismiss it as "lol so funny". AKIRA was a great film and the premise relied on psychic people. The problem is Bethesda relies too much on the whole "I CAN SEE YOUR FUTURE", but imagine the possibility of someone like Tetsuo being born on the Fallout world... yeah, that's some serious shit.

 

[Sigourn]

On a separate post, from best to worst Fallout games:

Fallout > Fallout: New Vegas: Josh Sawyer's Cut > Fallout 2

Fallout 2 is terribly. It set the foundation for Bethesda's wacky "Fallouts". New Vegas was a return to form. If it had been made on the same engine as Fallout, and was a finished game, then it would be, by far, the best Fallout game ever made.

 

[ilitarist]

Fallout did have an artistic genius working on it—Leonard Boyarsky. Does New Vegas have better graphics? Sure.

That is all I'm arguing about. FNV has better graphics. Plus better UI. Old UI was hard to use, has redundant features (I suspect most people don't even now it has dropdown menu which got "Move NPC from the way" function by Fallout 2) and has too much fluff on a 640x480 screen. I suspect Boyarski himself realized it because by the time he worked on Arcanum UIs became much more tame: even though resolution of Arcanum is higher it has little to none non-functional elements in its UI.

This is beyond the point anyway. We're unlikely to see anything as great as Fallout. Maybe Morrowind came close in terms of blowing minds and defining genres but it has less of a legacy, there are really no Morrowind clones apart from, well, other Elder Scrolls games. I may think that Divinity OS2 is sorta maybe a better game but I doubt it will affect the genre as much and will be remembered. It will probably be somewhere in the same place as FNV - a really good game, not the most popular, not the ones you'll keep in history books.

 

[Sigourn]

Fallout 1 art direction is great and distinctive, yes. The only problem I see is that back in the 90's people thought that UI has to be thematic so Fallout UI is overloaded with decorative elements that don't look so rad to me. You have Undertail comparison and I haven't played this game but I can easily see what happens there while in Fallout 1 bottom screen you may think you've stumbled upon some sort of puzzle from Myst series.

I disagree with this.

Lilura posted some great pics on why Fallout looks great. In Fallout, you can take a picture anywhere and it will look good. On New Vegas, you simply cannot do that. It's impossible to take a good looking picture in the vanilla game, to be frank. The nights are too bright and everything looks like crap. Interiors are too bright and everything looks like crap. Exteriors in day time have a horrible piss filter and everything looks like crap. Mesh and texture quality are all over the place. Only with an ENB and modded textures can you take a good looking picture.

Spoiler

Tacticool mod weapon and whatever differences one may have with Bethesda's rendition of Power Armor (which Obsidian was obliged to follow through), I think this picture looks BEAUTIFUL, but it's modded to hell and back.

The rest of the things in this screenshot are, in fact, using vanilla textures. But you don't notice that because of the DoF effect.

I simply disagree New Vegas has better graphics. Do they look more realistic than Fallout's? Sure. Do they look better? Not at all. Fallout's UI is also much more inspired than FO3's (and thus New Vegas'). Only Arcanum's comes close.

 

[Daedalos]

I would absolutely love strichter consequences for fucking around too much.

It doesnt have to be game ending, that's not good, but have some less severe consecquences for being a slow ass.
Taking your time saving that girl? Getting the quest item? Asking the same thing in a dialogue even they told u not to?
PUNISHMENT.

Just like in the real world.

 

[Lilura]

Does New Vegas have better graphics? Sure

I don't think NV has better graphics that Fallout, just technically more advanced and exhibiting less artistry. Fallout art assets were modeled, rendered and then touched up in 2d by a traditional artist to give it that handdrawn look. Also, working skilfully within limitations like color depth. That's why it looks gritty and raw. Rough-around-the-edges is the whole point. To equal that in 3d takes a crapload of manual labor and talent, too. See STALKER games for a 3d achievement on par.

 

[Lhynn]

lacking the execution to do so well.

Wrong. Fallout 1 is all about proper execution even when the individual elements arent up to par.
Yeah the combat was simplistic, but it didnt matter, sounds and animations made it thoroughly enjoyable and satisfying.
Yeah SPECIAL was a hacked up system made in a rush, but it worked very well in the game, it gave it depth and replayability.
The writing is great, fun, engaging and to the point, the story is barebones by necessity because the player is the one writing the script, it enables the adventure but never gets in the way.

You should quit discord and steam chat, the butthurt there seeps into your posts.

 

[Ninjerk]

Fallout did have an artistic genius working on it—Leonard Boyarsky.

(Fallout 2, but still, yeah, genius)

Does New Vegas have better graphics? Sure

I don't think NV has better graphics that Fallout, just technically more advanced and exhibiting less artistry. Fallout art assets were modeled, rendered and then touched up in 2d by a traditional artist to give it that handdrawn look. Also, working skilfully within limitations like color depth. That's why it looks gritty and raw. Rough-around-the-edges is the whole point. To equal that in 3d takes a crapload of manual labor and talent, too. See STALKER games for a 3d achievement on par.

I'm pretty sure that picture with the dog was done by Justin Sweet.

 

[agris]

Fallout did have an artistic genius working on it—Leonard Boyarsky.

(Fallout 2, but still, yeah, genius)

I'm pretty sure that picture with the dog was done by Justin Sweet.

Yeah, Justin Sweet is a listed artist for Fallout 1&2. His style is great, as is John Mueller's (another Interplay artist, wrote/illustrated/published the OINK comics which have some very Fallout-ish art and themes).

But in truth, Brian Fargo was totally on board with their vision and he supported the heck out of them, even when Steve Jackson pulled out and made them stop using GURPS because he hated the amazing opening video.

Where did you read/hear that Steven Jackson hated the opening reel? That's a new one for me.

 

[agris]

Here's an example of 2D graphics that uses the medium in such a way that 3D can't do the same right:

Spoiler

Fallout doesn't lose anything by switching to 3d. You may argue that top-down perspective is better for RPG but it's another story.

That is 100% a 3D render, and the funny thing is, I'm pretty sure modern hardware could render it in real time.