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Might and Magic Why has my preference in classes changed?

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
I went from a devout Paladin player to Rogue.

Fallen IRL. Not even African.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Don't know that Paladin codes are enforced seriously in crpgs either. Unless it's QFG or Ultima, I guess.
 

Delterius

Arcane
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Dec 12, 2012
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Entre a serra e o mar.
In the literature there are several types of characters and as a magican you wanted to be a paragon character (Merlin, Gandalf and recently Dumbeldore or whatever he is called ) and to have the might to change the world with magic words and gestures without the tiresome work.

And yet there are countless stories about heroes who can both wield a sword and knows magic. Case in point, Gandalf.

The problem is also in magic in this RPGs, because DnD has killed the mystic

Agree 100%.

^D&D is the problem.

If you boot up Neverwinter Nights, the 'recommended class' (for beginners who don't know anything about the game) is the Fighter. Not the Sorcerer, not the Bard, not even the Healbot. The Fighter is the low maintenance, low knowledge character that newcomers can't fuck up. Meanwhile a Mage gives you many tools, which you may or may not use adequately.

When Magic is just a series of predictable tools and differently coloured arrows it loses all of its appeal. The cool thing about magic in a D&D game is the learning process of what works and what doesn't. But eventually that appeal disappears because you already know all there is to know about magic in a D&D world. And since the choice is about the high maintenance sorcerer who can die pretty easy, or the low maintenance fighter who can take a lot of damage and keep fighting -- you might as well pick the latter choice. He comes in with magic armor and unexplained super physical powers, so its just 'magic' by another means.
 
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Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
In the literature there are several types of characters and as a magican you wanted to be a paragon character (Merlin, Gandalf and recently Dumbeldore or whatever he is called ) and to have the might to change the world with magic words and gestures without the tiresome work.
And yet there are countless stories about heroes who can both wield a sword and knows magic. Case in point, Gandalf.
The problem is also in magic in this RPGs, because DnD has killed the mystic
Agree 100%.
^D&D is the problem.
If you boot up Neverwinter Nights, the 'recommended class' (for beginners who don't know anything about the game) is the Fighter. Not the Sorcerer, not the Bard, not even the Healbot. The Fighter is the low maintenance, low knowledge character that newcomers can't fuck up. Meanwhile a Mage gives you many tools, which you may or may not use adequately.
When Magic is just a series of predictable tools and differently coloured arrows it loses all of its appeal. In a D&D type game, the choice isn't between a mundane swashbuckler and a wizard. Its between the people who can rewrite reality with spells or the people who write reality with their magic armor, or unexplained super physical attributes.
Thank you for the statement that you agree in BOTH statements with me to 100%. And basically the explanation for the first part (what you point out about Gandalf) is through the second part. Let me unveil it a bit:
Gandalf is someone of both worlds: the mortal and the gods. Before he was chosen by Manwe and taught magic and became Gandalf the Gray one of the Istari, he was a mortal man named Olorin. (According to my flawed memory.) Naturally the transition from Gandalf the Grey to the White follows through his death (JESUS). (Wer die Ewigkeit erreichen möchte, muss sich dem Spiel des Todes unterwerfen.)
Gandalf is amalgamated character from at least two sources representing Merlin and even more Odin (the grey wanderer). Also the name Gandalf (a elven name or a dwarvenname depending on the source) is taken from the Poetic Edda. Gandalf is chosen by Manwe and Manwe can be compared to Odin as the most noble, highest and the King of the Valar.

Concerning:
"In a D&D type game, the choice isn't between a mundane swashbuckler and a wizard. Its between the people who can rewrite reality with spells or the people who write reality with their magic armor, or unexplained super physical attributes."
Yes, but this problem especially the second part of it appead only this extreme since D&D 3.5e, and i hate this. In ADD this was not that much and MFG has expanded the fighting system of ADD, with different strikes and stances.
While the wizard class was a problem from day 1. Btw Gary Gygax didn't wanted the wizards in the DnD, but was convinced in the end.

Edit.:
I have also heard somewhere that Gandalf was always a supernatural being, that only assumed the form of Gandalf the Gray as was sent to Middle Earth. But nevertheless both version of Gandalfs come about confirm my previous statement.

Also currently to add is that in the DnD 5e the fighter is a bit better than in D&D 3e, especially the Battlemaster and Champion specialisation who seem to more divorced from magical powers like in D&D 3rd Edition and Pathfinder. But still MFG has made it better than WOC.
 
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Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
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In IWD, most dungeon crawlers etc you play all of them...

NWN - Clerics and Paladins
BGs - Fighters or mages/sorcerers
PS:T - Fighter/rogue/mage depending on what stage of the game you're at.

Etc.

I guess the class I've played least is Bard, then Barbarian, then Druid, then Rogue.

I really enjoyed having Valygar in my party in BG2. So I would say Stalker.


I'm also running with Valygar as my party leader. Both Anomen and Keldorn are too unbearable by a long shot. Drawback is no-one is using the +5 sword the dragon drops, sold it, lol.
 

Pizzashoes

Scholar
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
444
It's all about class expectations. Societal norms condition the masses to want to toil away so the elites can grow richer and fatter. When you're young, you haven't yet been brainwashed and you still have your own dreams. But as you grow older, you get dissuaded from being the cannon (Wizard) and encouraged to be the cannon fodder (Warrior).
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It’s weird, in anything D&D I always rolled a fighter or a paladin or maaaybe a ranger as a kid—I wanted only martial classes and none of that spellcasting nonsense for my PC (the exception being Torment and only because the game made it so clear that non mage characters were for idiots). But as an adult, I gravitate towards wizards in all of their forms. Sometime in college the martial classes lost their appeal.

I figured it was because it’s more fun replaying old games with a different class. But maybe there’s something more Freudian going on: it’s only natural to lose your fixation with swords when you’re putting your own saber to work regularly.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
When I was younger I always played some kind of mage or sorcerer in various RPG. (and occasionally the sneaky rogue types). Flinging fireballs, summoning shit, and freezing time gave me great pleasure.

But now that I'm older I no longer desire playing as a squishy mage but instead prefer some kind of warrior.

Baldur's Gate, Dark Souls, jRPGs, etc

Doesn't matter.

Why?
Much of gaming's attraction is novelty, it is natural to grow tired of the same stimulation.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It’s weird, in anything D&D I always rolled a fighter or a paladin or maaaybe a ranger as a kid—I wanted only martial classes and none of that spellcasting nonsense for my PC (the exception being Torment and only because the game made it so clear that non mage characters were for idiots). But as an adult, I gravitate towards wizards in all of their forms. Sometime in college the martial classes lost their appeal.

I figured it was because it’s more fun replaying old games with a different class. But maybe there’s something more Freudian going on: it’s only natural to lose your fixation with swords when you’re putting your own saber to work regularly.
And so by giving your sword regular work, you now have a fixation for wearing dresses?
 

Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal

Guest
When I was younger I always played some kind of mage or sorcerer in various RPG. (and occasionally the sneaky rogue types). Flinging fireballs, summoning shit, and freezing time gave me great pleasure.

But now that I'm older I no longer desire playing as a squishy mage but instead prefer some kind of warrior.
Because old RPGs were made by (and for) pencil-neck nerds who gave all the good stuff to mages, and made warriors dumb bullet-shields for the mages to do all the real work behind them. Remember back in Baldur's Gate, when wizards got hundreds of different spells, and the fighter class had like two abilities?

Modern RPGs, for all their flaws, have a better skill distribution, making warrior classes as interesting as the mage ones.
 

Nael

Arcane
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Dec 12, 2005
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11,384
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Indy
When I was younger I always played some kind of mage or sorcerer in various RPG. (and occasionally the sneaky rogue types). Flinging fireballs, summoning shit, and freezing time gave me great pleasure.

But now that I'm older I no longer desire playing as a squishy mage but instead prefer some kind of warrior.

Baldur's Gate, Dark Souls, jRPGs, etc

Doesn't matter.

Why?

Perhaps you have realized with wisdom accumulated from age that often times the simplest solution is the best solution.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
It’s weird, in anything D&D I always rolled a fighter or a paladin or maaaybe a ranger as a kid—I wanted only martial classes and none of that spellcasting nonsense for my PC (the exception being Torment and only because the game made it so clear that non mage characters were for idiots). But as an adult, I gravitate towards wizards in all of their forms. Sometime in college the martial classes lost their appeal.

I figured it was because it’s more fun replaying old games with a different class. But maybe there’s something more Freudian going on: it’s only natural to lose your fixation with swords when you’re putting your own saber to work regularly.
get your doctor to prescribe you testosterone supplements
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It’s weird, in anything D&D I always rolled a fighter or a paladin or maaaybe a ranger as a kid—I wanted only martial classes and none of that spellcasting nonsense for my PC (the exception being Torment and only because the game made it so clear that non mage characters were for idiots). But as an adult, I gravitate towards wizards in all of their forms. Sometime in college the martial classes lost their appeal.

I figured it was because it’s more fun replaying old games with a different class. But maybe there’s something more Freudian going on: it’s only natural to lose your fixation with swords when you’re putting your own saber to work regularly.
And so by giving your sword regular work, you now have a fixation for wearing dresses?

Please. The most masculine words in the English language are: I put on my robe and wizard hat.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
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Not Europe
I always start every rpg as a bog standard warrior/soldier type. Even playing BG now and found a companion with nearly same stats as mine, I still started the game as a fighter. Then afterwards I play as a mage
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
Dnd Beyond has made a statistic about created classes and races and according to them most beloved classes are in that order Fighter (i assume mostly Battle Master), Rogue, Wizard, Barbarian. The problem with the Fighter was that they were made boring, while the other classes were more versatile and exiting. But the funny thing is that it was Colin McComb with his "The Complete Book of Elves" that introduced a nice add to ADD and that was the Bladesinger Fighting Style ability to change the sword fight accoding to ones desire and combat need. If you make the Fighter and Barbarian more tactical in combat then the Fighter classes are prefered like in the case of the Battle Master in DnD 5e. Sadly the Fighter in DnD still lack the versatility in social interactions and that the social interactions all are CHA based and the changes in DnD 5e made this worse.
 
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Joined
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Messages
1,370
In my experience, anyone can be the chimp with a bazooka (usually the least suitable person), but it takes a warrior with his wits about him to keep the squishies alive.

That's one of the reasons I have always rolled warriors (in D&D/MERP/Rolemaster, at least). The other is that in high magic settings magic loses its... magic, and it doesn't appeal to me. It's a way of creating problems that require magical solutions because someone couldn't devise a technological problem. In a way, it's like Hollywood hacking for mummies.
 

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