Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

I think they changed that strict penetration rules to a gradual one instead. Wiki is likely outdated.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think they have, it's still 70% less damage if you don't penetrate and 130% of you have twice as much Pen.

 

[FreeKaner]

I am quite certain I have read somewhere he was going to change it to 130%/100%/66%/33% damage somewhere, but I can't remember where now.

 

[Ulfhednar]

They did say it - but like so many mechanics changes they are claiming, I don't think it has made its way into the beta yet.

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer tweets on Penetration:



What's actually in the beta is a different matter.

 

[Maculo]

Even if it is more gradual, the 130% is what disrupts the balance in my opinion.

An estoc appears to have more of an opportunity to obtain that 130% hit and further avoid the penalties compared to a greatsword. Why not just stack pen for more consistent damage and more consistent 130% hits?

I think it would be more balanced (using that word again), if they eliminated the 130% hit.

 

[Lacrymas]

There is no reason not to stack Pen as much as possible. Nobody is complaining about the 130% thing, though, as that isn't the problem.

 

[Ulfhednar]

So looks like I'm wrong and the penetration mechanics were updated in the Nov update, then.

 

[Maculo]

There is no reason not to stack Pen as much as possible. Nobody is complaining about the 130% thing, though, as that isn't the problem.

Elaborate, why wouldn't it be the problem though? From the screenshots, lower pen weapons generally have higher actual damage (estoc vs. greatsword), but the 130% hit erases that balance.

Without the 130% hit, greatswords would perform better than estocs against low armor targets, whereas estocs would be the better choice against high armor targets. With the 130% hit, the estoc is almost always better.

 

[Lacrymas]

Because it's hard to get to 100% damage Pen in the first place, let alone twice as much. Casters are the most limited in this context. Unless you are talking about something other than Penetration itself. If you are talking about the comparison between weapons, then that would depend on how easy it is to double Penetration compared to the AR of the mobs, only humanoids use armor types AFAIK, creatures have inherent AR which probably won't be as easy to double penetrate (insert double penetration jokes here) as cloth.

 

[FreeKaner]

I would also remove the overpenetration bonus, all it does is incentivise stacking pen, which shouldn't be the case.

 

[Maculo]

Because it's hard to get to 100% damage Pen in the first place, let alone twice as much. Casters are the most limited in this context. Unless you are talking about something other than Penetration itself. If you are talking about the comparison between weapons, then that would depend on how easy it is to double Penetration compared to the AR of the mobs, only humanoids use armor types AFAIK, creatures have inherent AR which probably won't be as easy to double penetrate (insert double penetration jokes here) as cloth.

I am primarily talking about pen with respect to weapon types at the moment. There is no reason not to use an estoc over a greatsword. I do not think it matters how easy or hard it is to obtain pen, because an estoc will always be the superior choice. An estoc is superior because that 4 additional pen rating makes its not only easier to reach 130%, but also easier to avoid armor penalties.

Based on the tooltip, the greatsword should be better in some situations, but the estoc is always the safer bet.

 

[Ulfhednar]

I just checked in the beta and the penetration values definitely reflect the values shown in the table in Josh's tweet.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think it's really about the balance for Lacrymas, he seems to just hate that he has to think about Penetration in the first place. It's like an ethos of design minimalism - Penetration, Empower, ships, they're all ultimately unnecessary distractions that should be disposed of.

Doesn't offer a solution for those who were unsatisfied with PoE1's more minimal set of mechanics though. Again, I think "forcing" characters to always have a high damage weapon at their disposal is a greater offense than Penetration. It is good to have an alternative knob to play with to defeat heavily armored enemies. If it needs to be balanced than balance it. I agree that the 130% damage bonus looks potentially problematic/redundant.

 

[Lacrymas]

I have given very substantial arguments as to why Empower and Penetration don't work in their current state and I have also thoroughly explained why I think the ship management either shouldn't exist or be fundamentally optional, so don't pretend I'm in some kind of autistic fever dream, Infinitron.

 

[polo]

What kind of penetration are we talking about here?
nohomo

 

[Maculo]

What kind of penetration are we talking about here?
nohomo

The kind you won't like.

 

[polo]

I have given very substantial arguments as to why Empower and Penetration don't work in their current state and I have also thoroughly explained why I think the ship management either shouldn't exist or be fundamentally optional, so don't pretend I'm in some kind of autistic fever dream, Infinitron.

You remember me of sensuki during PoE beta, do you think you will hate the end game too? Im actually curious, i think the reason sensuki hated it was because he saw so much potential in the beta, but (according to his opinion) they made a lot of wrong choices. Also i think he spent a lot more of time in the beta.

 

[Lacrymas]

I played through the beta only twice, so I'm not as invested or dedicated as Sensuki was in the PoE1 beta, but I, too, see a lot of potential in this system. They need to think through it more, tweak a lot of stuff and remove excess fat that only creates problems rather than solutions. Whether I'll hate the end product doesn't depend only on the combat, if they make it as vapid and uninteresting as PoE1 is outside of the combat then I'll be very disappointed and will show me that my gesture of faith in backing the Fig campaign was misplaced and wrong, and that they actually can't create anything worthwhile even with all the advantages in the world.

 

[Abu Antar]

I am the center of the universe.

 

[Lacrymas]

Looks pretty cool. What's up with those purple buttons, though, they clash so badly with the other, much better looking, icons. They look like taken straight from a mobile game. I know the passive talents also look like that and they are terrible as well.

 

[Abu Antar]

Aren't those the disposition icons used in dialog?

Btw, found the screen here: http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/-of-...-fallout-new-vegas-gelernt-haben,3326192.html

 

[Background Character]

Oh man I can't WAIT to burn those bridges (Or drown them in bloood pools)

 

[Lacrymas]

Is it just me or is there another faction we don't know about in that screenshot? I don't remember seeing that coiled snake emblem before.

 

[Abu Antar]

Is it just me or is there another faction we don't know about in that screenshot? I don't remember seeing that coiled snake emblem before.

Yeah, we don't know anything about that faction. Only the other four.

And about the purple buttons, they are indeed disposition icons.