Might and Magic Why has my preference in classes changed?

[Hobo Elf]

As everyone said, Wizard spells got shittier and less inspired over time. But that's only half the problem. The other half is that Warrior loot is and has always been more interesting. The progression of Warriors was always in the better and cooler gear they would get, and Wizards had new flashy spells to look forward to. Now Wizards have no spells and they still have no loot to look forward to either. A complete lose-lose scenario for them.

 

[DragoFireheart]

When I was younger I always played some kind of mage or sorcerer in various RPG. (and occasionally the sneaky rogue types). Flinging fireballs, summoning shit, and freezing time gave me great pleasure.

But now that I'm older I no longer desire playing as a squishy mage but instead prefer some kind of warrior.

When you were but a wee basement dweller playing videia instead of fooootball you imagined that your (obvious) deficiencies in physical abilities was compensated by your (debatable) intellectual advantages thus you played a class where intelligence was favored. As you have aged you have realized that you are (obviously) not more intelligent than the rest of humanity and thus you embrace the lumbering thug as your ideal persona.

I have picked up strength training as a hobby that I did not do in my younger years.

Low T = mages?

High T = warriors?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

requesting muscle wizard pictures

Not sure if you include Shamen or not, but this guy casts sonic spells

Not bad... but I did find what I was looking for:

 

[Background Character]

You're a man now.

 

[Lilura]

So young age prefer wizard, middle age prefer warrior, but what does old age prefer? Perhaps octavius can offer insight.

 

[octavius]

I really enjoyed having Valygar in my party in BG2. So I would say Stalker.

 

[Somberlain]

When you were at the tavern, I studied the Weave. When you were bedding wenches, I mastered the school of transmutation. While you wasted your days at the training hall in pursuit of vanity, I cultivated points in intelligence. And now that the treasure chest is indestructible and your rogue is in coma you have the audacity to come to me for Knock?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So young age prefer wizard, middle age prefer warrior, but what does old age prefer? Perhaps octavius can offer insight.

Rogues really get the shaft when it comes to picking favourites, it would seem.
Might be fun trying to breakdown classes based on demographics sometime.

 

[Elex]

requesting muscle wizard pictures

Not sure if you include Shamen or not, but this guy casts sonic spells

it’s a skald.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

When you were at the tavern, I studied the Weave. When you were bedding wenches, I mastered the school of transmutation. While you wasted your days at the training hall in pursuit of vanity, I cultivated points in intelligence. And now that the treasure chest is indestructible and your rogue is in coma you have the audacity to come to me for Knock?

Actually I put the key in your bag bro.

 

[DraQ]

Because mages are so powerful that they trivialize the world around them, and thus your victories come to you with minimal effort.
That which is easily won is not worth having.

True, but that really depends on how magic works in given game. In Morrowind, for example, you need to earn your awesomeness as wizard far more than you do as warrior, because if you don't delve into the intricacies of spellmaker and interactions between different effects, dedicated casters just suck and continue to suck. OTOH if you do think up some effective spells, the reality will just melt before you. With warrior you just hit things, grab loot and chug steroids on level ups.

You can't really have that in a game with predefined spell list.

Complex and customizable magic with default spells being weak or not covering all the necessary bases pushes mage gameplay away from stupid mode.
Complex melee and stealth, plus threats you can't just outlevel and steamroll or trivially bypass do the same with warrior and rogue gameplay respectively.

So young age prefer wizard, middle age prefer warrior, but what does old age prefer? Perhaps octavius can offer insight.

Rogues really get the shaft when it comes to picking favourites, it would seem.
Might be fun trying to breakdown classes based on demographics sometime.

Maybe not explicitly rogues, but characters that lack both extreme physical and magical prowess, but must employ ordinary cunning and cleverness to even hope to succeed tend to make good protagonists because they need to earn their victory.

That's probably why the canonical protagonist in the old LoL1 is the furry.

 

[Dzupakazul]

I play whatever I feel like playing at a given time, but my favourite classes tend to depend on what sort of kit they offer game-to-game. If a game only lets me play a martial as a meatshield with no interesting combat options other than the odd consumable, I'm more likely to lean towards something trickier and craftier while a hireling or other party members take care of such a mundane job. If the wizard playstyle looks akin to early WoW's one-button rotations, I'll probably pick a martial. Also, I generally have a vast preference for my character to generally feel "helpful" outside of nuking things, whether it is through crowd control, giving auras to everyone else, perhaps being able to off-heal or set traps, so clerics, druids, paladins, rogues and the like are all definiitely in my vogue. Maybe you're just having a martial-flavored trend and there's not that much to read into it.

It might also simply be that you don't really care that much for combat nowadays, as I feel like more games offer warriors and the like to cut down on some micromanagement tedium, at least. Even itemization options can feel underwhelming - just go for your next straight stat upgrade.

 

[TigerKnee]

Rogues really get the shaft when it comes to picking favourites, it would seem.

Computer RPGs just really fuck that archetype up.

They're usually just trap/unlock bitches in early ones, transitioning into squishy melee DPS as the genre developed.

There's very little of the quick-thinking, MacGuyver your way into victory through your wits and cunning going on that you can't do with other classes who usually have more options to achieve that (fairly obvious for mages, but even standard Fighters's wider equipment options means they can generally equip more magical equipment and use their powers)

 

[Lilura]

I would say my readership is about 30. This is a pretty balanced poll for NWN:

Poll shows truth: Rogues are best in NWN. If this was BG2 poll Sorc would run away with it.

 

[DraQ]

There's very little of the quick-thinking, MacGuyver your way into victory through your wits and cunning going on that you can't do with other classes who usually have more options to achieve that (fairly obvious for mages, but even standard Fighters's wider equipment options means they can generally equip more magical equipment and use their powers)

That's probably the best protagonist archetype with two caveats:

1. It's hard to make work with anything resembling reasonably balanced and powerful party (though it could be possible with right and broad application of challenges you can't just strongarm your way through that also aren't just locked doors).
2. It's hard to make work without cutting other classes viability.

 

[Black]

Rogues are most intredasting to play since you don't have the raw strength of fighter types or spells of mage/cleric.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Rogues are most intredasting to play since you don't have the raw strength of fighter types or spells of mage/cleric.

Which in many games often can mean "lots of tedium". I love the hit'n'run backstab playstyle of the Baldur's Gate thief with lots of consumable use and three distinct kits with fun variations on the class. I also played Rogue through NWN OC, where it soon turned out that I am absolutely expert at one-shotting bosses with traps (including Shit You Never Have A Reason To Kill, such as Belial and full-powered Klauth) and have a lot of cool UMD stuff on paper, while simple trash mobs would overwhelm me because most of them were Sneak Attack immune and even the Rogue's fabled AC fails once every 20 hits. I'm ambivalent about the "squishy DPS" rogue that's emerged lately because on one hand they're bursty, light-armored Warriors with a thiefy flavor, but on the other they tend to at least have a somewhat active flurry of skills where you can quickly toss a disable, set up a kill, burst someone down, etc., and you still don't have a lot of passive mitigation to keep you safe at all times, so their kit is at least fun to play to exercise situational awareness.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I would say my readership is about 30. This is a pretty balanced poll for NWN:

Poll shows truth: Rogues are best in NWN. If this was BG2 poll Sorc would run away with it.

Ha, remembered the poll just after I posted.

Maybe not explicitly rogues, but characters that lack both extreme physical and magical prowess, but must employ ordinary cunning and cleverness to even hope to succeed tend to make good protagonists because they need to earn their victory.

I'd argue that rogues and fighters both fall in this category, considering that extreme physical prowess should be the realm of demigods.
This is partly why I enjoy Black Company, seeing normal dudes and shitty wizards prevail against serious powerhouses.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I always prefer a Gish, a melee/caster hybrid, even if it isn't the most optimum setup.
In Exile 1-3/ original Avernum 1-3 I always used to make half of my PCs as fighter/priests and half as mage/priests.
In BG2 my fav was Kensai/Mage multi class.
in NWN I usually use that mod which adds tons of base/prestige classes and go for psychic warrior kind of class.
in NWN2 I prefer melee kitted warlock with the Kaedrin PrC mod
in DOS/DOS2 almost everyone has some spells so...
in underail the psi monk is my favorite to play. full psion comes a second on the fun-o-meter for me though.

Perhaps the only notable exception to this trend is Geneforge series, where I went with Shaper/Mage in most of my playthroughs; even though gish as agent was viable. Cause creating abominations to fight for you is so much fun!

 

[Darkzone]

"Why has my preference in classes changed?"

Fuck where to beginn now...
The correct short answer was already given: You're a man now.

So sadly i have to try to give you the long answer with few words: Watch Jordan Peterson on youtube for the answer. He is for me a nice confirmation bias, but not on pair with my knowledge ( yes i'm that arrogant).

But let me throw bits and crumbs on your journey to the answer:
The hero's journey is for a reason the strongest trope in literature, because it is about the boy becoming the man archetype through suffering, training and tests.
The boy who wants to join the man hunters party hones his skills, gethers a new perspective and becomes through this a man - a leader - a thinker and understands now the world around him differntly then before. Even in the bible this stated with in a very nice statement in 1 Corinthians 13:11
This is the Quest on which end is the test to become a man, but remember the way is goal for each of us.
In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there was a saying: There is nothing that a man with a sword cannot achieve. (Paraphrasing)

In the literature there are several types of characters and as a magican you wanted to be a paragon character (Merlin, Gandalf and recently Dumbeldore or whatever he is called ) and to have the might to change the world with magic words and gestures without the tiresome work. As you grew older you faced the realtiy that behind everything is a lot of work and you wittnessed the reality that you are just a cog in the machine that is your company, society and state and you need to inverst time and do tiresome work to have a status and a place and that you need to take responsibilties.
And this has changed your perception on the classes that you prefer, because you cannot be Merlin or Gandalf that disobey the laws of the natural world, but you can be a legendary Warrior though the power of will and hard work. Not the class reflects upon you, but you reflect upon the class.

Perhaps you are ready for the "Sword and Sorcery" genre? I recommend to you the Robert E. Howerd Conan stories and the Conan Comix "Omnibus - Birth of the Legend" from Dark Horse.
"Conan the Barbarian" film had a prodcution title "Steel" which aludes to Conan becoming like steel, smelted, cast and forged by the oven, castform and hammers of fate. The man with the sword armed with his body forged by his life and his will fights the evil undead (story depended) sorceror Thulsa Doom, represents the archetype of a Man fighting the forces of fate that threaten him and his family.

The problem is also in magic in this RPGs, because DnD has killed the mystic aspect of magic and made it profane. Take a look at the films from the early 80s like Dragonslayer and Excalibur how magic is presented there. There it has its own will (Zauberlehring) and something that is beyond the realm of mortals and belongs to the world of gods and dreams: (Excalibur 80s)
Arthur: Merlin where have you been.
Merlin: Your love brought me back. Back to where you are now. In the land of dreams.
Arthur: Are you just a dream Melin?
Merlin: A dream to some. A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!!!

Take your time to trying to understand this and watch Persons videos, they are ok.

 

[DraQ]

I'd argue that rogues and fighters both fall in this category, considering that extreme physical prowess should be the realm of demigods.

The main problem with fighters is that they typically don't have the toolset to work around problems, only to face them, so as much as it can seem heroic they are set up for victory from the beginning.

Whether or not given class is a stupid mode wholly depends on having means and necessity of working around problems instead of forcing through them.

 

[Somberlain]

"Why has my preference in classes changed?"

Fuck where to beginn now...
The correct short answer was already given: You're a man now.

So sadly i have to try to give you the long answer with few words: Watch Jordan Peterson on youtube for the answer. He is for me a nice confirmation bias, but not on pair with my knowledge ( yes i'm that arrogant).

But let me throw bits and crumbs on your journey to the answer:
The hero's journey is for a reason the strongest trope in literature, because it is about the boy becoming the man archetype through suffering, training and tests.
The boy who wants to join the man hunters party hones his skills, gethers a new perspective and becomes through this a man - a leader - a thinker and understands now the world around him differntly then before. Even in the bible this stated with in a very nice statement in 1 Corinthians 13:11
This is the Quest on which end is the test to become a man, but remember the way is goal for each of us.
In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there was a saying: There is nothing that a man with a sword cannot achieve. (Paraphrasing)

In the literature there are several types of characters and as a magican you wanted to be a paragon character (Merlin, Gandalf and recently Dumbeldore or whatever he is called ) and to have the might to change the world with magic words and gestures without the tiresome work. As you grew older you faced the realtiy that behind everything is a lot of work and you wittnessed the reality that you are just a cog in the machine that is your company, society and state and you need to inverst time and do tiresome work to have a status and a place and that you need to take responsibilties.
And this has changed your perception on the classes that you prefer, because you cannot be Merlin or Gandalf that disobey the laws of the natural world, but you can be a legendary Warrior though the power of will and hard work. Not the class reflects upon you, but you reflect upon the class.

Perhaps you are ready for the "Sword and Sorcery" genre? I recommend to you the Robert E. Howerd Conan stories and the Conan Comix "Omnibus - Birth of the Legend" from Dark Horse.
"Conan the Barbarian" film had a prodcution title "Steel" which aludes to Conan becoming like steel, smelted, cast and forged by the oven, castform and hammers of fate. The man with the sword armed with his body forged by his life and his will fights the evil undead (story depended) sorceror Thulsa Doom, represents the archetype of a Man fighting the forces of fate that threaten him and his family.

The problem is also in magic in this RPGs, because DnD has killed the mystic aspect of magic and made it profane. Take a look at the films from the early 80s like Dragonslayer and Excalibur how magic is presented there. There it has its own will (Zauberlehring) and something that is beyond the realm of mortals and belongs to the world of gods and dreams: (Excalibur 80s)
Arthur: Merlin where have you been.
Merlin: Your love brought me back. Back to where you are now. In the land of dreams.
Arthur: Are you just a dream Melin?
Merlin: A dream to some. A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!!!

Take your time to trying to understand this and watch Persons videos, they are ok.

So, once a bucko starts cleaning his room like a lobster, he will always roll a warrior?

 

[DraQ]

I might hit a sore spot here, but cRPGs in general tend to drop the ball on the necessity aspect, as unchecked growth, combined with mechanical simplicity often mean that out-levelling, then steamrolling obstacles is possible, expected and often inevitable, making them stuck in the stupid mode by default.

 

[Darkzone]

So, once a bucko starts cleaning his room like a lobster, he will always roll a warrior?

Not necessary, it is just the beginning. This is a long journey and the ritus of cleaning the room is the first part of ordering of the thoughts and cognitive processes. Francis of Assisi: First do what is necessary, then what is possible and soon you will do the impossible. (Paraphrasing)
But yes a nice joke that you made.

 

[Erikolaz]

I was heavily into Paladins when I first started playing RPGs. Always played knightly characters. Read the Complete Paladin's Handbook over and over. Played a Paladin in BG1, BG2, etc. Think my fascination with Paladins truly kicked in when playing Quest for Glory 4.

I still enjoy playing knightly characters from time to time, but think it's more interesting to play Lawful Evil ones. My main problem with playing a Paladin-like character in CRPGs is that I rarely feel like I'm making my own choices. In most cases I just end up selecting what the designers established as the "default good option", not very appealing.

Generally prefer Rangers, Rogues, or Fighter/Rogue hybrids now. Think I heavily shifted towards those kind of characters while playing Gothic 2. Playing a Mercenary in G2 was probably my favorite gaming experience.