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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
You forgot Dimitri, PoE2's Lead Character Artist (or whatever his occupation was); some trannies here and there; and Susan Sarandon in general and at her current age.


It's funny that you like the Chanter so much. It was a neat idea system-wise but in practice it was hella boring to play.

It's not that I like Chanters in this context, it's more fair to say that I dislike the Cipher's disregard for established mechanics and their being outside of them, making them OP as a result.
 
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Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
... how would have "A completely new and unrelated Lvl 18 character wakes up in a mysterious cave?" been better?
By not being tied to the supremely shitty Original Campaign. Pay attention.
As for a relevant insertion - the PC was (again) chosen because of the silver shard of the Sword of Gith. A tenuous connection, sure, but it was there.
Very obviously, such a change would've had some (albeit minute) effects on the narrative. By no stretch of the imagination is the shard necessary for the overall plot, however; hell, you could've easily have crashed there out of sheer chance.

Going by that logic, every RPG in which you do some quest outside of strictly following the main plot - aka: practically every one of them - is bad.
Not at all. There's a huge difference between doing things that makes sense for the character as he is in the process of doing other, more or less related things in the same vein, around the same area, and going to a weeks-long trip to another part of the country or continent while your sanity is (poorly) implied to be deteriorating and a menacing plot being carried out with some hint of urgency.

How great the issue is in this depends largely on how things are conveyed to the player, it's the old Oblivion vs. Morrowind issue. In Morrowind, you are encouraged to explore and your adventuring makes perfect sense in the given context, even as the main plot unfolds. In Oblivion and Skyrim, doing any of the side-quests comes across as completely fucking nuts considering that the world is literally fucking shattering while you're fetching some fucking apples or something.

Another example of this is actually Baldur's Gate vs. Baldur's Gate II. Baldur's Gate was far superior in this, whereas in Baldur's Gate II you run around half the region for months while you have absolutely no idea (in an in-character sense) what's up with Imoen, who you're implied to care for (to the point where it's mandatory to progress the plot). Delaying past the point of actually raising the money makes small sense.

White March is one of the worst offenders, though - you literally leave the entirety of the main plot behind for a completely unrelated issue which you have very little knowledge or motivation to care for to the point where you'd travel there, risking widespread destruction and the loss of your own sanity. White March would've made a lot more sense as a post-OC expansion in a narrative sense, but that would've created it's own set of issues in terms of various content (i.e. outcomes of end slides) and would've been much harder to implement. It's a fucking train wreck, honestly, and a lot would've have to be rewritten and integrated differently in order for it to make any sense whatsoever.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yet White March, especially 2, is better than everything else in the base game. I agree with its implied statement that something that has nothing to do with the main plot is better and the base game would've been vastly superior had it not been what it is.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
Yet White March, especially 2, is better than everything else in the base game. I agree with its implied statement that something that has nothing to do with the main plot is better and the base game would've been vastly superior had it not been what it is.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, here, I'm not shitting on White March itself, really, I'm shitting on the way it was implemented. I also hated that MotB was tied at all to the NWN2 OC - it doesn't mean that MotB isn't one of the greatest things since the invention of the levain loaf. But all things considered, when actually in the process of playing MotB, it never bothered me that it was tied to the OC, either.

However, White March does, because believe it or not, I try to actually roleplay in roleplaying games, doing things that makes sense from a character's perspective, in ways that makes sense to that particular character, and if I were to stick to that, there's just no fucking way my character would ever end up in White March. It would be delayed until after the main plot, when my character would (hopefully) have time to do such a thing, but by then, the game is over. But at the same time, tacked-onto-the-end expansions of epilogue size are shit compared to well-integrated and full expansions that act as a general expansion of the main game itself.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,001
Pathfinder: Wrath
I would've made it related to Thaos on a fundamental level. We'll find more about him as a person and it will give more context to his motivation and maybe convincing some characters that he's actually right, retroactively making him a better character, like Kreia made Revan a better character. I would've set it in the underground cities of the spider people. I agree that White March is maybe the most jarring mid-game expansion I've ever played, I can't think of anything more jarring and out of place. It's simply a completely different story, including Concelhault and Llengrath.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
9,008
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
I wouldn't be able to play a Triple Crown run and get anywhere if that's the case or even just PotD.

1qjn1fjo.nll.png
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
... how would have "A completely new and unrelated Lvl 18 character wakes up in a mysterious cave?" been better?
By not being tied to the supremely shitty Original Campaign. Pay attention.

Which you aren't required to play.

Hell, I've recommended MoTB to dozens of people, always pointing out that they don't need to play the OC.

As for a relevant insertion - the PC was (again) chosen because of the silver shard of the Sword of Gith. A tenuous connection, sure, but it was there.
Very obviously, such a change would've had some (albeit minute) effects on the narrative. By no stretch of the imagination is the shard necessary for the overall plot, however; hell, you could've easily have crashed there out of sheer chance.

It adds another narrative layer for those of us who've played suffered through the OC. For others, it makes almost no difference at all, but does imply the PC wasn't a blank slate before waking up in that cave.

Going by that logic, every RPG in which you do some quest outside of strictly following the main plot - aka: practically every one of them - is bad.
Not at all. There's a huge difference between doing things that makes sense for the character as he is in the process of doing other, more or less related things in the same vein, around the same area, and going to a weeks-long trip to another part of the country or continent while your sanity is (poorly) implied to be deteriorating and a menacing plot being carried out with some hint of urgency.

Like I said, many RPGs feature a plot that by all rights should be the sole priority of the player. Take Fallout 1 & 2, for example. You should make a very linear beeline from city to city, following the clues, so that your people don't die of thirst/starve, yet the games actively encourage you to go off exploring in locations that have nothing to do with the main story.

Very, very few games have side-quests that are almost all in some way or another connected to the main story/crisis.

How great the issue is in this depends largely on how things are conveyed to the player, it's the old Oblivion vs. Morrowind issue. In Morrowind, you are encouraged to explore and your adventuring makes perfect sense in the given context, even as the main plot unfolds. In Oblivion and Skyrim, doing any of the side-quests comes across as completely fucking nuts considering that the world is literally fucking shattering while you're fetching some fucking apples or something.

Even in Morrowind, it was implied that the Ghostgate could fail at any moment, and that you should hurry up.

Another example of this is actually Baldur's Gate vs. Baldur's Gate II. Baldur's Gate was far superior in this, whereas in Baldur's Gate II you run around half the region for months while you have absolutely no idea (in an in-character sense) what's up with Imoen, who you're implied to care for (to the point where it's mandatory to progress the plot). Delaying past the point of actually raising the money makes small sense.

Actually, the PC in BG2 had some choice in reasoning why they wanted to go to Spellhold: 1) Imoen 2) Getting revenge on Irenicus 3) Getting Irenicus to spill the beans on what he meant by the PC's untapped power.

White March is one of the worst offenders, though - you literally leave the entirety of the main plot behind for a completely unrelated issue which you have very little knowledge or motivation to care for to the point where you'd travel there, risking widespread destruction and the loss of your own sanity. White March would've made a lot more sense as a post-OC expansion in a narrative sense, but that would've created it's own set of issues in terms of various content (i.e. outcomes of end slides) and would've been much harder to implement. It's a fucking train wreck, honestly, and a lot would've have to be rewritten and integrated differently in order for it to make any sense whatsoever.

In PoE, you have very little motivation to do anything but hunt Thaos. Period. The only RPG that handled that "you have to do it NOW, hurry, there's no time!" shtick well was MoTB.

Is your primary issue with this that the White March is in a different region? Because it takes about two, maybe three days to travel there, which isn't significantly more than other areas in the base game.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,910
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Nevermind I found it:

The Trial of Iron mode has been presented in Pillars of Eternity as a special, optional challenge for players who wish to undertake it. This mode restricts players to a single save game. If the party is ever defeated, the save game is deleted.

We do not believe it is necessary for us to police how players manipulate their save game data. You may choose to play Trial of Iron in whatever manner you see fit. However, I would like to take this opportunity to ask you to consider the following: what does it mean to achieve victory in Trial of Iron if the spirit of the challenge has been broken? What does defeat mean if you have pursued victory in the spirit of the challenge?

Think upon this and act as your conscience dictates. Thanks for reading.

J.E. Sawyer
Director and Lead Designer
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
POE's main quest isn't that urgent for the most part. The madness is something that will happen in the future, the hollowborn has been going on for years. At the point in the main quest where you can get to the White March you're actively investigating the Leaden Key, so they have some Leaden Key people sighted in the area to attract players who are more in character.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
Agree about the Leaden Key stuff in WM, but PoE base game's urgency isn't about the madness (like you said, it could take decades for that to manifest), but sniffing out Thaos - a man who rarely leaves clues and loose ends - before he goes underground again.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,425
People saying paladins cant do dps are looking at the game from a one dimensional perspective. They survive the longest besides a fighter. Got awesome insant heals, aura, and consistent dps with that mark ability of theirs. They do a lot in a long drawn out fight.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
At the time you get access to the expansion you might plausibly not even know who Thaos is, though that does come soon after. I was disappointed that he wasn't involved in the White March in any way; the Leaden Key's presence there being presented as one of the leads you can follow for Lady Webb would have made it feel that bit more natural to head out there.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,402
Location
Brazil
I will always admire what they're trying to do with different weapons and tactical applications for each but fuck if I can remember the last time I changed a weapon mid-fight on Hard difficulty in PoE, maybe it's a PotD thing

Like at some point you pimp out your prefered Weapon/Armor so much with Enchants/Durgan Steel that it's not worth the effort to switch

Maybe in some PoE spin-off focused on tactical battles but ehhhhh
 

Ent

Savant
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
540
Unless swapping weapons is the central focus/gimmick of a character I usually have a specific weapon in mind when building a character.
 

Ulfhednar

Savant
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
809
Location
Valhalla


Edit: (I'm assuming melnorme is one of us.)

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96138-gimme-your-best-and-gimme-your-worst/
So Cdiaz at Obsidian asked for feedback on best and worst features of Deadfire...
Virtually every response mentioned spellcasting under the bad/worst category. I don't think ANY of the responses mentioned spell cancellation as a significant issue (Edit: there is at least one that put's it in their neutral mentions). Common concerns were the switch to per-encounter, spell selection at level up, casting speed and damage of spells, and the lack of long term strategy. Several of the responders were long active forum participants some of which have thousands of hours in game for PoE 1.

I don't know what else to say.
 
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Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274

Cleve is more my type, but he makes crappy blobbers instead of isometric Fallout clones.

Lacrymas is probably one of the most attractive posters on the 'Dex, but he plays PoE.

Sadly, there is no one on the 'Dex will my levels of monocolism. Well, Grumwulf is up there but... alcoholism.

I feel lonely on the 'Dex sometimes...
 

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