Top modern jrpgs?

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, no, we understand what a huge fucking edgelord you are. We're just saying japan also makes edgy games, and they don't stop being japanese because of that.

 

[Sigourn]

Yeah, no, we understand what a huge fucking edgelord you are.

Not enjoying the company of kiddies in my vydia doesn't make me an "edgelord". It just makes me someone who prefers a cast and a story aimed at someone above the intellectual age of 12.

We're just saying japan also makes edgy games, and they don't stop being japanese because of that.

I never mentioned "edge", though. The average JRPG fag response: "so you don't like JRPGs? You must love blood/gore/edge/violence/darkness".

Vagrant Story is a Japanese game. So what? It's not a JRPG on my book, just like Dark Souls isn't either, and Nocturne isn't either. I don't have anything against Japanese games that stray away from their vomit-inducing cultural influence. Japs just so happen to be terrible at sitting on the middle: it's either too cheerful or too dark (sometimes pulled off perfectly, sometimes not so much). Japs fault, not mine.

Oh well. Once a mindless JRPG fag, always a mindless JRPG fag.

 

[Urthor]

Nocturne is absolutely a JRPG, did you even play that game? Just because it doesn't follow the Final Fantasy formula exactly doesn't mean it isn't clearly a JRPG

 

[Alkarl]

and Nocturne isn't either.

Whoa, now hold on a second. I mean, I get it, you aren't really invested in the culture, but Shin Megami Tensei, and especially Nocturne, are overtly japanese. Nevermind that they typically take place in Japan, the games could likely never be made outside Japan (or wouldn't have been) due solely to the way most Japanese view religion. Mashing up the worlds various deities and demons would be extremely taboo in most other cultures of the world, but freely trading between religions isn't an uncommon practice in Japan, as I understand. This, among various other reasons, is why we didn't see a proper MegaTen release here in the west UNTIL Nocturne.

 

[Trash Player]

Yeah, no, we understand what a huge fucking edgelord you are.

Not enjoying the company of kiddies in my vydia doesn't make me an "edgelord". It just makes me someone who prefers a cast and a story aimed at someone above the intellectual age of 12.

We're just saying japan also makes edgy games, and they don't stop being japanese because of that.

I never mentioned "edge", though. The average JRPG fag response: "so you don't like JRPGs? You must love blood/gore/edge/violence/darkness".

Vagrant Story is a Japanese game. So what? It's not a JRPG on my book, just like Dark Souls isn't either, and Nocturne isn't either. I don't have anything against Japanese games that stray away from their vomit-inducing cultural influence. Japs just so happen to be terrible at sitting on the middle: it's either too cheerful or too dark (sometimes pulled off perfectly, sometimes not so much). Japs fault, not mine.

Oh well. Once a mindless JRPG fag, always a mindless JRPG fag.

Hating overtly sugary style or pseudo-didactic melodrama is a perfectly okay thing to say, and it describes you better than what you have said.
Inclination to extreme and indulgence to style and craft is very Japanese. Nintendo is Japanese, so is Fromsoft. Kyoto is Japanese, so is Akiba.​

 

[Deflowerer]

Nocturne is absolutely a JRPG, did you even play that game? Just because it doesn't follow the Final Fantasy formula exactly doesn't mean it isn't clearly a JRPG

Read: JRPGs are Jap games I don't like.

Nevertheless, I sort of understand why one would dislike your average JRPG storytelling, especially in this age of creeping moe'ism and degeneracy. However, due to the compartmentalization of gameplay and storytelling, they haven't declined as badly as WRPGs.

 

[Rahdulan]

"Good JRPGs" is an oxymoron. If it is good, it is definitely not a JRPG. JRPGs are inherently shit. Like Alkarl said, JRPGs with good stories are as rare as they come. You are more likely to find a western RPG with a good story, which is funny considering one of the strengths of this fabulous subgenre is its great stories™. If it is not a cliché story, it is a convoluted mess that makes barely any sense. And it probably has kiddie characters. But what can you expect from a genre played mostly by anime fans?

Whether it's a matter of target demographics back in Japan, writing style of "throw shit at the wall and something will stick... add a cute mascot for good measure" or plain and simple losing something in the translation is beyond me. Maybe it's a deadly combination of all three? You are correct in that JRPGs with genuinely good writing are even rare than mechanically engaging JRPGs.

 

[Endemic]

Depends which era we're talking about. There were quite a few well-written JRPGs in the 1990s. Off the top of my head: Xenogears, Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. They also had pretty good (although with some flaws) gameplay.

 

[Suicidal]

I wonder how much glue do you have to chug in order to have this kind of thought process?

That's like saying "all movies with Arnold Schwarzenegger in them are inherently shit, except for those two movies that I like, but I will declare that they do not, in fact, have Schwarzenegger in them, even though they clearly do".

Here's a better analogy: an action movie where the action is absurdly over the top and expects to be taken seriously at the same time is shit. Jason Statham plays a lot of roles in that type of movies. The Jason Statham movies I actually like, surprise surprise, are not action films, but comedy films.

I find it baffling it is so difficult to understand: I don't have anything against JRPGs from a purely gameplay point of view. A lot of issues I have with them I also have with games made in America or other western countries. My biggest issues are purely cultural and stylistical, as I explained above with Vagrant Story.

Is it really that difficult to understand that I will NEVER like a game that shoehornes kiddie characters, or has a lol-so-cute sense of humor or artstyle or themes? If Fallout had the exact same gameplay but everything turned animu, guess what: I would hate it, and wouldn't bother playing it. Sorry, but my weaboo meter can only resist so much before it breaks and possibly good games go to hell because of that.

Well imagine a situation where you find a JRPG with cutesy anime characters and storytelling that you actually enjoyed for one reason or the other. (happened to me - I used to hate cute anime shit in games as well then I played Labyrinth of Touhou, that had such good and unique gameplay mechanics that it joined the ranks of my all-time favorite games). Would you still insist that it is not a JRPG even though it is by all definitions? It's perfectly fine if you hate anime art and style and want to avoid games that utilize it, but insisting that games you like do not belong to the genre they belong is pretty silly.

As for your overall situation, if you hate weeb shit that much, then you won't find many games in this genre that you will enjoy. In my opinion you should never play JRPGs for the story/writing/atmosphere - with very rare exceptions they really suck in those areas. Gameplay mechanics and challenge is where they often outshine their western counterparts, but often to get to those things you need to put up with stories that feature schoolgirls, 12 year old kids saving the world and other cringy nonsensical shit. If you're incapable of doing that then it's best to just stay away from these games.

The only one at the top of my head that I've played and can suggest to check out is Last Remnant - it has a pretty interesting (if annoying at times) combat system and party management and consists of a mostly adult cast (IIRC the plot is still animu as fuck so don't know if it makes any difference for you).

 

[Reinhardt]

If i had to chose between characters with colored hairs, i'll better play game with cute schoolgirls than with ugly landwhales with side cuts.

 

[Arthandas]

Gameplay mechanics and challenge is where they often outshine their western counterparts

WTF?! You're talking about a genre famous for its braindead difficulty. I haven't played a single challenging jrpg in my entire life and I pity anyone who thinks jrps are even remotely difficult.
Even the supposedly most challenging jrpg series - SMT is laughable.

 

[Alkarl]

Gameplay mechanics and challenge is where they often outshine their western counterparts

WTF?! You're talking about a genre famous for its braindead difficulty. I haven't played a single challenging jrpg in my entire life and I pity anyone who thinks jrps are even remotely
difficult.
Even the supposedly most challenging jrpg series - SMT is laughable.

It doesn't sound like you've really played too many, so if you're genuinely interested in having your position challenged in this argument, I would recommend the following:

Shin Megami Tensei (mainline, for full effect: do a blind run of Nocturne on Hard)
Phantasy Star (Especially 2)
Final Fantasy 4 (snes release)
Dragon Warrior 2 (nes)
Dragon Warrior 3 (nes, take at least one goof-off in your party)
Smt: Strange Journey

And these are just what I can come up with off the top of my head. I'm sure some other folks can come up with more recent ones.

 

[Sigourn]

Well imagine a situation where you find a JRPG with cutesy anime characters and storytelling that you actually enjoyed for one reason or the other. (happened to me - I used to hate cute anime shit in games as well then I played Labyrinth of Touhou, that had such good and unique gameplay mechanics that it joined the ranks of my all-time favorite games). Would you still insist that it is not a JRPG even though it is by all definitions?

Of course not. I loved Final Fantasy IX when I was a kid, and that is a JRPG. I think I only have a soft spot for it because it was basically my childhood. It is hard to rate it properly since I haven't played it in a decade.

It's perfectly fine if you hate anime art and style and want to avoid games that utilize it, but insisting that games you like do not belong to the genre they belong is pretty silly.

I personally disagree. Mostly because what is a "JRPG" varies from people to people. If I tell you I like Vagrant Story precisely because it lacks the elements that make a JRPG a JRPG (to me) (in addition to being a really good game), I'm not "avoiding" anything. It's not a JRPG precisley because if it was a JRPG there would be elements that would be an instant turn-off, whether it be cutesy characters, funny upbeat themes, a heavy handed party of characters that make no sense, a story that is absurdly long and convoluted, and so on and so on. Likewise with Nocturne: if it was made by Americans and setting swapped into New York, would people still call it a JRPG? (I'm guessing not since there's also this idea that "JRPGs" can only be made by Japanese, just like how only Italians can make Italian food...)

Anyone is free to disagree, but to act like I'm "kidding" myself in order to like games I shouldn't like is retarded. I'm not a Codexer that tries his hardest to pretend "Skyrim is shit!!!" while having hundreds of hours into it in order to farm brofists. I couldn't care less about brofists, I care more about people being idiots who can't grasp simple concepts even an 8-year old would get ("Things I hate are in JRPGs -> Game doesn't have things I hate -> Probably not a JRPG", is it really that impossible to understand?).

That said, there could always be one JRPG that does some things so good I can completely overlook all the weaboo trash and usual JRPG tropes. It's just that the Japanese RPGs I've played so far and liked at the same time haven't been JRPGs, that's all.

As for your overall situation, if you hate weeb shit that much, then you won't find many games in this genre that you will enjoy. In my opinion you should never play JRPGs for the story/writing/atmosphere - with very rare exceptions they really suck in those areas. Gameplay mechanics and challenge is where they often outshine their western counterparts, but often to get to those things you need to put up with stories that feature schoolgirls, 12 year old kids saving the world and other cringy nonsensical shit. If you're incapable of doing that then it's best to just stay away from these games.

I'm interested to play games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, the SMT series (at least up to Nocturne), among others. Games I don't consider to be JRPGs, not because "I like them and don't want to be associated with JRPGs", but precisely "because they are not JRPGs I'm able to like them" (this is exactly what the JRPG fags don't understand, which one is the cause and which one is the consequence). I also liked Final Fantasy XII (not a JRPG), maybe when I have a beefier computer I could play The Zodiac Age.

Arthandas Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is good. The Press Turn system is a great innovation compared to the traditional turn-based combat of most JRPGs and earlier RPGs. It gets rid of the awful "just spam Attack" by rewarding you greatly for exploiting your enemy's weaknesses and punishes you just as much for not being prepared for fights. Something that in most turn-based games doesn't matter.

 

[Reinhardt]

If instead of being a Japanese game it had been by Americans, would people keep thinking it was a "JRPG"?

Point is - it's clearly japanese game made by japanese. I.e. something americans wouldn't make.

 

[Arthandas]

It doesn't sound like you've really played too many, so if you're genuinely interested in having your position challenged in this argument, I would recommend the following:

Shin Megami Tensei (mainline, for full effect: do a blind run of Nocturne on Hard)

One of the first things I did when I was looking for some challenging jrpg in my other topic. Boring, easy grindfest with one of the most retarded looking protagonist in the jrpg history.

Phantasy Star (Especially 2)

I played the first one until I got bored after a few dungeons. It's the same pattern: you enter the dungeon with semi-threatening enemies but after exploring it for 15 minutes they can scratch your balls at best.

Final Fantasy 4 (snes release)
Dragon Warrior 2 (nes)
Dragon Warrior 3 (nes, take at least one goof-off in your party)

Really, that's your best argument? 20 year old primitive crap? I wouldn't play this shit even if these were the most challenging games in the universe (and they're nothing more than massive grindfests like most of this autistic genre).

Also, having to battle the same 3 variants of annoying enemies each 2 steps in a dungeon is not how I define difficulty.

I would genuinely love to play a truly challenging jrpg than's not a massive grindfest but I don't see how's that possible without mods and hardcore romhacks.

 

[Sigourn]

If instead of being a Japanese game it had been by Americans, would people keep thinking it was a "JRPG"?

Point is - it's clearly japanese game made by japanese. I.e. something americans wouldn't make.

 

[Suicidal]

Gameplay mechanics and challenge is where they often outshine their western counterparts

WTF?! You're talking about a genre famous for its braindead difficulty. I haven't played a single challenging jrpg in my entire life and I pity anyone who thinks jrps are even remotely difficult.
Even the supposedly most challenging jrpg series - SMT is laughable.

To be honest, I was thinking more about modern games when I wrote that.

I'll agree that if we look at older games, western RPGs included some very challenging titles, like the Wizardry series, Jagged Alliance (not really an RPG but whatever), Temple of Elemental Evil was kinda hard IIRC. While all of the old JRPGs that I've played (Suikoden, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy 7, Front Mission 3) all featured "braindead difficulty".

However, lately things have changed. During the last 5 or so years, the only challenging RPGs that I've played were JRPGs and all western RPGs were pretty brainedead in terms of difficulty. Some specific examples:

Divinity Original Sin - difficulty was a joke. A few hard fights in the 1st act, but once I completed it there was nothing that challenged me anymore. 99% of my combat encounters consisted of keeping the enemies permanently stunlocked.
Divinity Original Sin 2 - slightly harder, but still quite easy. The fights where you actually need to use your head and worry about stuff like positioning are rare and mostly concentrated in the 1st act. Again, the ability to AOE stunlock the entire enemy team makes the game too easy and the armor system they added didn't really do much to counteract this.
Pillars of Eternity - on Path of the Damned the game was only difficult until I had my full party of 6 people. After that almost every encounter could be beaten by just grouping up the mobs and AOEing them to death. They made it slightly harder in the expansion, but still nothing to write home about.
Wasteland 2 - not challenging at all, even on the highest difficulty. Most encounters were easy and the ones that were actually difficult could be trimmed down with a rocket launcher. Lategame most of my party members were just oneshotting every enemy with critical hits.
Lords of Xulima - kinda hard at the beginning, but then you get some really overpowered spells and you've basically won the game. I don't think I've ever died in a fight past a certain point.
Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall - basically X-COM combat without any risk and unlimited abilities.

I can't of any recent western RPG that challenged me or made me scratch my head thinking "hmm how do I beat this".

 

[Ash]

I would genuinely love to play a truly challenging jrpg than's not a massive grindfest but I don't see how's that possible without mods and hardcore romhacks.

My recommendations:

Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (2008)
Parasite Eve 2 (2000)
Dark Souls (2011)
Final Fantasy 5 (1992) (bit grindy potentially, but is one of the more challenging FF games that isn't also totally boring).
Final Fantasy Tactics (1997)
Vagrant Story (2000)

Whether or not you consider these jrpgs or whatever the fuck else, who cares. these are some notably challenging Japanese role-playing games or games with RPG elements that in my opinion are worth playing, and most also aren't particularly grindy. Seriously tho, if you want Japanese, truly challenging, and no grinding all in one game, I'd look to japanese action games instead, because they were the king of truly challenging back in the day. Nonetheless the above should suffice.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I would genuinely love to play a truly challenging jrpg than's not a massive grindfest but I don't see how's that possible without mods and hardcore romhacks.

When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

All you've got is the ability to grind levels. Give up on challenging rpgs.

 

[Arthandas]

My recommendations:

Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (2008)
Parasite Eve 2 (2000)
Dark Souls (2011)
Final Fantasy 5 (1992) (bit grindy potentially, but is one of the more challenging FF games that isn't also totally boring).
Final Fantasy Tactics (1997)
Vagrant Story (2000)

Whether or not you consider these jrpgs or whatever the fuck else, who cares. these are some notably challenging Japanese role-playing games or games with RPG elements that in my opinion are worth playing, and most also aren't particularly grindy. Seriously tho, if you want Japanese, truly challenging, and no grinding all in one game, I'd look to japanese action games instead, because they were the king of truly challenging back in the day. Nonetheless the above should suffice.

Apparently I'm Neo from Matrix because I've beaten all of those games apart from FF5 and save for Dark Souls* none of them is even remotely difficult, ESPECIALLY not FFT which can be easily broken with many classes like ninjas or dragoons (love the game though but without self imposed challenges it's a walk in the park).

*Dark Souls is one of my favorite games. When I did my first blind playthrough, I was disappointed by how easy it was, especially since everyone everywhere halted it as an extreme game only for dedicated sadists. The truth is, shields break the game. You can get 100% physical shields early in the game and even with low stamina blocking basically becomes the invulnerability button. Secondly, you get A LOT of healing from estus + even more healing from miracles (and you don't need to invest much faith to be able to use them). You can get from bonfire A to bonfire B after being hit by every single enemy on the way and you'll still make it. If all this is not enough, I can trivialize any boss fight by summoning a sunbro. Also you can snipe most enemies with spells ranged weapons before they can even retaliate.
Only when I started my second playthrough with following rules the game became actually challenging and twice as fun:
-absolutely no shields
-no phantoms
-no ranged attacks that go in a straight line no prohibit cheese sniping tactics
There's also an awesome cheat engine script for DS2 and 3 which allows you to edit player and enemy speed. You can for example make all enemies move and attack 25% faster compared to the player without touching the natural global game speed. This really bumps the challenge without using fake techniques like bloating enemy hp or damage.

When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

All you've got is the ability to grind levels. Give up on challenging rpgs.

What everything looks like if all I have are shitty jrpgs?
Also, I can't give up on something that doesn't exist.

 

[Ash]

Get the fuck out of here with your hyperbole. I'm replaying Castlevania: OoE right now and it is indeed "not even remotely challenging", but rather it is notably challenging. As in it provides a good challenge without going overboard, just like Dark Souls. My death count is probably about 30 on the default difficulty and I'm halfway through the game, on a replay.

What are you looking for, true masochism? No JRPG provides that in my experience.

Bear in mind I wasn't trying to find you "da most challenging game" either, but rather games that are as you requested:

-actually good (well, you didn't request this, but it's standard)
-not too grindy
-at least notably challenging

I can recommend you check out early FROM SOFT games and you can fall in a hidden, basically unavoidable pit of lava as soon as you start if that's what you're after. I wouldn't normally but you're clearly a special case.

 

[Arthandas]

Get the fuck out of here with your hyperbole. I'm replaying Castlevania: OoE right now and it is indeed "not even remotely challenging", but rather it is notably challenging. As in it provides a good challenge without going overboard, just like Dark Souls

You must be new to platformers then. Try Dracula's Curse (which is the best Castlevania game) and then look me in the eye and say OoE is hard. The series was on constant decline starting with SotN which introduced levels and op equipment. I don't even know what the game over screen in SotN looks like.

 

[Ash]

Nope not new to platformers. Yes I am aware Castlevania used to be hard as fuck, and that the metriodvania's declined that aspect big time (except CotM and OoE, which while less hardcore are acceptable enough).
Point is you wanted a Japanese RPG that offers a challenge, and my recommendations do. I didn't realise you wanted classic Castlevania level of masochism in a JRPG. I've never encountered such a thing (nope Dark Souls doesn't qualify either), but is it really necessary anyway? As long as games meet a certain standard of difficulty, all is well. But hey, if you really want truly brutal difficulty arguably beyond reason, then I am personally am not aware of any such JRPG that I also consider actually good, so I'll bid my leave from this thread. I mean, classic CV used to have no saving and a lives system, along with general brutal difficulty. It doesn't get a lot more hardcore than that, and I'm not sure if the RPG genre in its entirety has ever matched that level of brutalism nor skill-based gameplay.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's not like rpgs can provide any challenge at all, if you don't count some old blobbers.

 

[Arthandas]

Point is you wanted a Japanese RPG that offers a challenge, and my recommendations do. I didn't realise you wanted classic Castlevania level of masochism in a JRPG.

See, the point is I don't consider classic Castlevanias to be masochistic. As far as platformers go, their difficulty is perfect. Every death is your own fault. You either misjudged a jump, tried to rush or just wasn't fast enough. There's nothing masochistic about it, you fuck up = you die.
I want the same from a jrpg (and any other game for that matter). Game with good difficulty punishes you for your mistakes and blocks progress if you're not good enough to pass the obstacles.
Jrpgs don't punish you for your mistakes because generally you can do whatever the hell you want in combat and still stomp everything. You can use the same tactics on the first and the last boss of the game and it's seems to be universal across most jrpgs: use most damaging skills until out of mana -> use mp restoring consumable and repeat. All that while designating one character as healing bitch.