Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FreeKaner]

Pallegina is a good character. Although companions in PoE1 are lacklustre overall.

 

[Sizzle]

No, I don't. And I don't have many doubts that obsidian in some form or another reached out to Avellone and he refused to work on Durance (guy said Durance's story was done and he wouldn't come back on twitter lol).
However, I feel like there are better ways to treat one of the best and most popular characters of the prequel than 2 years of silence and completely ignoring him.

He cut all ties with the company, I seriously doubt they contacted him just for this (even as a stretchgoal :D ).

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

 

[Fairfax]

No, I don't. And I don't have many doubts that obsidian in some form or another reached out to Avellone and he refused to work on Durance (guy said Durance's story was done and he wouldn't come back on twitter lol).
However, I feel like there are better ways to treat one of the best and most popular characters of the prequel than 2 years of silence and completely ignoring him.

He cut all ties with the company, I seriously doubt they contacted him just for this (even as a stretchgoal :D ).

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

They did, but not about Durance in particular. Fig's CEO asked MCA if he wanted to work on PoE2, but he said no.

 

[Sizzle]

No, I don't. And I don't have many doubts that obsidian in some form or another reached out to Avellone and he refused to work on Durance (guy said Durance's story was done and he wouldn't come back on twitter lol).
However, I feel like there are better ways to treat one of the best and most popular characters of the prequel than 2 years of silence and completely ignoring him.

He cut all ties with the company, I seriously doubt they contacted him just for this (even as a stretchgoal :D ).

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

They did, but not about Durance in particular. Fig's CEO asked MCA if he wanted to work on PoE2, but he said no.

The only Fig/Kickstarter he ever refused :D

 

[Flou]

Seems to me like there is plenty of reason to bring Durance back. His ending is basically "Next time on Dragon Ball Z..."

They can always bring back Durance for an another game. I highly doubt they will end the story with Deadfire. It might make more sense bringing back Durance in the 3rd or 4th game.
This game is about Eothas (Eder) and Vailian Republic plays a big role in it (Pallegina). Durance and his vengeance doesn't really fit with where they are going with the plot of the game.

 

[CptMace]

The final boss of POE2 is the statue inhabited by Eothas... EXCEPT THAT IT WAS WOEDICA ALL ALONG.
Probably a twist along those lines.

 

[Sentinel]

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

How would continuing his story that ends on a cliffhanger cheapen his PoE1 role? I disagree immensely. To continue it would be natural. People who got the suicide ending obviously would have him dead, but for people like me, who watched him scream as he realized he had been betrayed, they're gonna be wondering upon finishing PoE2 - hang on a minute, what the fuck happened to Durance?

 

[Lacrymas]

Not to mention his role in the last Eothas hunt. Oh, how better it would've been had we been a part of the Saint's War and not P1's nonsense or P2's impotent and classless premise.

 

[Sizzle]

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

How would continuing his story that ends on a cliffhanger cheapen his PoE1 role? I disagree immensely. To continue it would be natural. People who got the suicide ending obviously would have him dead, but for people like me, who watched him scream as he realized he had been betrayed, they're gonna be wondering upon finishing PoE2 - hang on a minute, what the fuck happened to Durance?

Some stories don't need everything about them explained. Him casting off the shackles of ever again following anyone and setting off to wage a lonely, determined one-man crusade against his former god is more fitting and romantic - than him appearing in the sequel and going on about wanting to off Magran in every conversation.

 

[FreeKaner]

Durance's story was p. much complete regardless if he kills himself or not. I actually hate this companions return every game Japanese nonsense, I hate that PoE2 is a direct sequel too when it has absolutely no reason whatsoever to be one since you are at a different part of the world concerning an entirely different plothook. They could have done it like the new Shadowruns where they gave you hints and drops about events in last game and it could be concurrent even. I know I would have hated if Hong Kong was tied to Dragonfall directly, it would have felt so tacked on and it WILL feel tacked on here.

 

[Sentinel]

Besides, he got a perfect ending to his story. To continue with it (and they would pretty much have to go with the revenge route) would be to cheapen his PoE1 role.

How would continuing his story that ends on a cliffhanger cheapen his PoE1 role? I disagree immensely. To continue it would be natural. People who got the suicide ending obviously would have him dead, but for people like me, who watched him scream as he realized he had been betrayed, they're gonna be wondering upon finishing PoE2 - hang on a minute, what the fuck happened to Durance?

Some stories don't need everything about them explained. Him casting off the shackles of ever again following anyone and setting off to wage a lonely, determined one-man crusade against his former god is more fitting and romantic - than him appearing in the sequel and going on about wanting to off Magran in every conversation.

It's not about explaining anything, it's about showing it. And you are assuming that Durance has no room to grow as a character and would just be a monotonous "when are we going after magran???" character. Among all the companions, he has a unique perspective on the divine business. Having him as a party member or in any other capacity in PoE2 would also open the door to a lot of romantic and dramatic scenes, especially considering how popular he is. Fuck man I can concoct some 10 scenes in my head about how Durance could be used in the story without him being a companion. If he is relegated to a sad lonely man standing outside the local brothel going "hehehe watcher, been watering my salty mast" or to some "i heard he..." shit from an NPC, I'm going to be seriously disappointed. I don't want to believe Obsidian is that lacking in creativity.

 

[Sentinel]

btw why does durance look like rasputin

 

[CptMace]

I don't want to believe Obsidian is that lacking in creativity.

Ahah come on dude.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't want to believe Obsidian is that lacking in creativity.

Ahah come on dude.

what

 

[Lacrymas]

Having a plot revolve around characters and their motivations is hard, so Durance is out of the question. It's much easier to have an abstract goal to work towards, rather than wrack our brains thinking about how to properly characterize people in this narrative to have an actual presence in it.

 

[CptMace]

I don't want to believe Obsidian is that lacking in creativity.

Ahah come on dude.

what

You're making such a big deal out of the absence of Durance as a playable companion. He was thematically strong because he was about the dyrwood and its events. Since they decided to introduce new guys, and had to chose who would carry along, they went for the most legitimate choices, well that's how I see it. Yet he could appear anyway, could be playable through dlc etc. You react like they announced "Durance is a prick and we won't be working with him ever again". Chill.
But moreover, I somehow have a hard time believing this statement anyway If there's a guy in here who doesn't miss an opportunity to call them out for lack of creativity, it's definitely you.

 

[Maculo]

Not to mention his role in the last Eothas hunt.

Eothas: "Hey Durance, heard you were talking shit."

On Durance, I think it was wise not to bring him back. I believe Obsidian would not want to be seen as taking Durance/GM from MCA. Too much potential for unnecessary drama.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't want to believe Obsidian is that lacking in creativity.

Ahah come on dude.

what

You're making such a big deal out of the absence of Durance as a playable companion. He was thematically strong because he was about the dyrwood and its events. Since they decided to introduce new guys, and had to chose who would carry along, they went for the most legitimate choices, well that's how I see it. Yet he could appear anyway, could be playable through dlc etc. You react like they announced "Durance is a prick and we won't be working with him ever again". Chill.
But moreover, I somehow have a hard time believing this statement anyway If there's a guy in here who doesn't miss an opportunity to call them out for lack of creativity, it's definitely you.

You missed the "if" part of my post.

 

[Lacrymas]

Oh, they are definitely lacking in creativity, no doubt about it. It's not only about creativity, though, it's about being unable to gel everything together properly and it's this jumbled mess of ideas that go nowhere. Sure, the world is fleshed out, but it's the mark of an amateur writer to flesh out his setting to the tiniest detail, but fail to properly utilize it or have coherent characters and motivations.

 

[Maculo]

Oh, they are definitely lacking in creativity, no doubt about it. It's not only about creativity, though, it's about being unable to gel everything together properly and it's this jumbled mess of ideas that go nowhere. Sure, the world is fleshed out, but it's the mark of an amateur writer to flesh out his setting to the tiniest detail, but fail to properly utilize it or have coherent characters and motivations.

On one hand I agree with you, but I can think of few games that meet that standard well. Even Planescape Torment, Mask of the Betrayer, and Kotor2 required people "magically" being drawn into your orbit at times.

You still have to explain why random strangers are willing die for the party or the PC.

Edit: Actually, was Safiya drawn to you out of the unconscious bond or from order from the mentor in MoB? It's been too long.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, how better it would've been had we been a part of the Saint's War

I don't know why people are so sure about this. A lot of fantasy storytellers over the years have said "Hey, let's take this EPIC WAR from our world's backstory and make a prequel out of it" and it usually doesn't turn out that well.

The genre fiction tradition of placing wars in the past and having the present-day adventures deal with their long-term consequences probably exists for a reason.

 

[Sensuki]

What I said was that I do not know many people who have tinkered with the speed setting

40 FPS or bust (33% faster than default)

 

[Lacrymas]

On one hand I agree with you, but I can think of few games that meet that standard well. Even Planescape Torment, Mask of the Betrayer, and Kotor2 required people "magically" being drawn into your orbit at times.

You still have to explain why random strangers are willing die for the party or the PC.

Edit: Actually, was Safiya drawn to you out of the unconscious bond or from order from the mentor in MoB? It's been too long.

KotOR2 explained it well enough and the companions are actual people who, at the end, CHOOSE to come with you despite the supernatural bonding. It's not only the bonding, though, Kreia manipulates and threatens them into going with you. Their choices make sense and have an impact because they are characterized properly within the context of the story. I don't remember any supernatural bonding going on in MotB, Gann has literally nothing else to do and his wanderlustic (not a word) tendencies naturally coincide with your potential for interesting encounters, Safiya has to bring you back to her mother, Kaelyn sees a potential to continue her crusade in you, you subjugate One-of-Many and Okku has a vow to stop the curse. The Nameless One's companions come with you because he attracts people who suffer in some way, i.e. thematic relevance, but, again, they are actual characters in the end. PoE's companions join you because we obviously have to have a party in this party-based game, only Durance and GM make sense in this aspect, but they were so undercooked that it's just a glimmer of potential.

It's not only about companions, though, it's about characters in general. The only character who did something in P1 was Thaos and he was a raving lunatic who has lost all connection to reality and his motivations make no sense. It's not that his motivations are nonsensical that is important, but his actions make no sense to us because we don't know who he is as a person, so we can't understand him and don't know how he got to this position. Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner and all that. These heavy themes they are going for require a much more refined touch than they are capable of, so it comes off as bland, try-hardy and biting off more than you can chew.

 

[2house2fly]

I didn't mind Pallegina. Thought she was far more interesting than Aloth or Maneha. Eder and Hiravias were the best. Zahua and Devil were also okay. Durance was a mixed bag and GM was undercooked.

So has the godlike aumaua been cut? Or is his character just too closely tied to the main narrative for them to divulge details in previews?

Now that I think about it, all I dislike about her really is her companion quest. She has some cool moments in the story, her personality is fairly interesting (loyalty to the rulers of her country vs loyalty to the country itself etc) and I like her voice acting. Plus, insubstantial as it was, her personal quest has potentially interesting ramifications considering how prominent the Vailians will be in POE2

 

[Sizzle]

It's not about explaining anything, it's about showing it.

Show, but don't tell :D

And you are assuming that Durance has no room to grow as a character and would just be a monotonous "when are we going after magran???" character.

Yes. Because: a) He's so utterly fanatical and committed to a cause that it completely devours all of his waking thoughts, speech and actions. b) His exposition (and, make no mistake, he was an exposition-heavy character. The only difference is that he had a good writer who knew how to make exposition interesting, involved and pertinent to the character and setting) was the basis of his entire character. Without that mystery about him, all we would have left is the vengeful ravings of an obsessed zealot.

Fuck man I can concoct some 10 scenes in my head about how Durance could be used in the story without him being a companion. If he is relegated to a sad lonely man standing outside the local brothel going "hehehe watcher, been watering my salty mast" or to some "i heard he..." shit from an NPC, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

The way I see it, the best thing they could do is make some subtle (and contradictory) hints about him, that would make him out to be some sort of legendary, underground figure who fights against the Gods. Some would believe he doesn't exist, that he doesn't stand a chance, while others would root for him and maybe seek him out to join him. Something along those lines.

btw why does durance look like rasputin

He's based on the "fire and brimstone, piety, fuck materialism, a return to orthodox values!" priest archetype, similar to Rasputin (minus the over mysticism).