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Did Souls "no reload" spoiled other games for you?

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235
No. There's gaems like the classic survival horror ones that orbit around saving the progress constantly without having autosave. In fact, is some games this system can take you to a no return point. This happened me in Resident evil 3 where I got stuck in the battle against nemesis in the clock tower because I were wasting all the health during the playthrough and I didn't create other savefiles.

tl;dr

Not everything rotates around Souls dick

Fucking casual. Nemesis can be beaten without taking any damage.

But yes, classic survival horrors are prime examples of utilising restrictive save systems in their favor. Resident Evil, Silent Hill, AVP, Call of Cthulhu: DCoTE and many more. Far from the only examples though.
 
Last edited:

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Okay I'll bite. Cite 5 games from the 80s and how death was penalizing back then.

Because the handful games I've played from the age either had save anywhere (Ultima 4,5,6, Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy, Ys) or didn't have it due to technical limitations (ATARIs Adventure, SMS Zillion, etc. where you had to begin all over from the beginning if you die).
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
Okay I'll bite. Cite 5 games from the 80s and how death was penalizing back then.

Wizardry until 6, Might & Magic 1-2, Bard's Tale are good enough for ya?

Resurrecting a dead character cost a lot of gold and decreased his CON as per D&D, and your last save was from many hours ago since you could only check out in the town above/at the inns.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,208
Souls, and Nier fans didn't try to gift a copy of their game to the motherfucking Pope. Undertale fans are the worst by a country mile. Sanctimonious blowhards, the lot of them.

Your game had a nonviolent playthrough, yes, you're so revolutionary and different. Now go eat a bag of dicks.

I used to detest Undertale fans because of how loud and obnoxious they were but lately they seem to have quieted down - this is probably the first place in several months I've seen Undertale discussed in and now whenever I want to listen to some game soundtracks on Youtube, it doesn't immediately fill my recommended video page with Undertale music.

Dark Souls fans, however, still haven't shut the fuck up. You can't go 5 minutes on the internet without seeing some mindless Souls cultist (or an ironic troll) extolling the virtues of this game. "Holy shit this new action game is terrible, I wish it was more like Dark Souls", "This other action game has swords and you can occasionally die if you're not paying attention, what a fucking Dark Souls ripoff! From Software should sue!", "Praise the sun bro xDDDDDDDD", "Wow this is like the Dark Souls of [insert word here], Dark Souls invented video games, also I'm 12 btw". This makes them a lot more annoying and most of them are as mindless as the zombies in their favorite game.

As for Nier fans, they're not even a thing. The game definitely has a fanbase and you can trigger some Nietzsche-quoting keyboard philosophers by saying the game's story is paced badly, but I've never seen Nier fans spam the shit out of some game's board or a Twitch stream's chat about how game X is not like Nier and is thus inferior and how Nier is God's gift to man.

As for the original message,

Did Souls "no reload" spoiled other games for you?

No, it really hasn't. As many people pointed out already, Roguelikes where a thing long before Dark Souls. So were games with Ironman mode. Then there are various dungeon crawlers that limit your ability to save the game to town only, so getting wiped 30 minutes into a dungeon run is a lot more disastrous than dying in DS, since your corpse will usually be 2-5 minutes of running from the spawn location. I also used to play a lot of MMORPGs as a kid where it was possible to lose items and experience on death. The prospect of getting ambushed by player killers and potentially losing your high tier weapon you spent several weeks farming an elite mob for was a lot more terrifying than dying in Dark Souls.

Dying in Dark Souls is not even much of an issue. Yeah you drop your souls, so what? You can just get them back. Also you can periodically return to the checkpoint to spend them once you have enough for a level up, trivializing the death penalty completely. Even if you lose your souls, it's not a big deal. You generally won't be carrying more than 1-2 level's worth anyway. "Oh no, I dropped my 10k souls, now I won't be able to increase my damage to 202 from 200 and the next boss is going to die from 10 hits regardless" - were usually my thoughts.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235
Dying in Dark Souls is not even much of an issue. Yeah you drop your souls, so what? You can just get them back. Also you can periodically return to the checkpoint to spend them once you have enough for a level up, trivializing the death penalty completely. Even if you lose your souls, it's not a big deal. You generally won't be carrying more than 1-2 level's worth anyway. "Oh no, I dropped my 10k souls, now I won't be able to increase my damage to 202 from 200 and the next boss is going to die from 10 hits regardless" - were usually my thoughts.

You don't just lose souls. You also lose locational and combat progress. Some obstacles are permanently cleared (bosses, shortcuts etc) but common enemies always respawn, and any items you obtain are permanently yours, yet also any items you use are also not restocked upon death (except estus). It also strikes an excellent balance in consequences of not being too punishing, nor too lenient. It does have one fatal flaw wherein once you know the path and enemy placement, you can just run past everything with such ease. All in all a good system though.

Dark Souls fans, however, still haven't shut the fuck up.

the rabid fanbase especially those ignorant of gaming history can be annoying, but honestly I'm glad they're vocal as fuck. It's a genuinely good game, a return of classic Japanese ARPG game design (with a small handful of innovations), and the more people that play it as a result of these rabid, extremely vocal and fanatical individuals the better. The end goal here being the conversion of the people playing and worshipping pretty much any other modern high profile game, because everything else is varying degrees of garbage or compromised and fuck me do standards need to be reset back to the good ole days.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
You don't just lose souls. You also lose locational and combat progress. Some obstacles are permanently cleared (bosses, shortcuts etc) but common enemies always respawn, and any items you obtain are permanently yours, yet also any items you use are also not restocked upon death (except estus). It also strikes an excellent balance in consequences of not being too punishing, nor too lenient. It does have one fatal flaw wherein once you know the path and enemy placement, you can just run past everything with such ease. All in all a good system though.

So they basically invented checkpoints. WOW.

What's next coming from the saviors of gaming, 3 lives? Entering 8-digit codes to access levels beyond 1? OMG, maybe a joystick?
 

Deathsquid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
382
the rabid fanbase especially those ignorant of gaming history can be annoying, but honestly I'm glad they're vocal as fuck. It's a genuinely good game, a return of classic Japanese ARPG game design (with a small handful of innovations), and the more people that play it as a result of these rabid, extremely vocal and fanatical individuals the better. The end goal here being the conversion of the people playing and worshipping pretty much any other modern high profile game, because everything else is varying degrees of garbage or compromised and fuck me do standards need to be reset back to the good ole days.
I actually belong in the camp of people that intentionally shun things that people rabidly hype up. I've avoided Souls series for this very reason. Well, that, and the horrible controller -> kb/m port job, and no, I'm not getting a controller and learning to use it just because a dev team making a video game to make money can't figure out how to do that thing that hundreds of other devs have managed to accomplish. So yeah, I guess I'll get the series with some kind of a fan patch when the fans finally shut up about the amazing virtues of it all.
 

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
SS2 did have QBR mashines, 10 nanites per reconstruction. Yes you could save at any time too, but the mechanic was there and if you played without saving it was really something.
Recently DX with GMDX has '100 bucks for a save' mechanic which is a good idea.
In both you can do an autosave by just transitioning to another area which is a nice compromise especially in SS2 because of respawning.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,208
the rabid fanbase especially those ignorant of gaming history can be annoying, but honestly I'm glad they're vocal as fuck. It's a genuinely good game, a return of classic Japanese ARPG game design (with a small handful of innovations), and the more people that play it as a result of these rabid, extremely vocal and fanatical individuals the better. The end goal here being the conversion of the people playing and worshipping pretty much any other modern high profile game, because everything else is varying degrees of garbage or compromised and fuck me do standards need to be reset back to the good ole days.

Meh, I thought it was an okayish game at best. Nothing to get hyped or vocal about. I didn't find it that interesting or challenging. I've enjoyed most other games that I've played in the last few years a lot more than I enjoyed DS.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
Witcher 3's main game didn't do anything for me, and I found 70-80% of the content a dull chore. I don't think making it souls-esq in terms of risk-reward would make much difference, they should have just made it a better game with more interesting combat, less filler & space, & a better main plot.

Blood & Wine is far better than the main game, and the more interesting combat & enemies play a big part in that.
 

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis is like some kind of sick joke. With the full military might of NATO the first few missions are laughably easy, instilling a misplaced confidence in the player. Then suddenly it's all ripped away. The friendly tanks, the helicopters, even the fellow soldiers. Everyone evacuated and you're left alone, a single man in enemy territory making a cross-country run to the final evac site. You get one save. I never felt more alive playing a computer game.

The convenience of saving anytime doesn't necessarily spoil games for me, but if applied purposefully a limited save system can compliment the atmosphere the developer is trying to set.
 

SkiNNyBane

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,090
Location
NY
Grab the Codex by the pussy
souls did spoil me and i never loaded game again thx to that. This game gave me valuable lesson about dignity.
It clearly was bad port. In fact it was so bad that I've just uninstalled it for good. I was a bit butt hurt about steam selling it as pc game in first place.
I kept thinking though about why it was so bad piece by piece. At that point I've gained this hatred for console UI.
See, I've never hated it before. For example while I didnt enjoy Oblivion or Skyrim UI I thought about it as kind of playing with new things. I'm always in favor of dev trying out new stuff, even if it will be failure. Its evolution that pushes industry forward.
Dark souls though made me realize that it was not the case at all. It wasnt about creating a new UI that could work on both platforms. It was laziness(and lack of funds, whatever).
Now when I boot a game that within 10mins strikes me as lazy port, I try to refund.
And is a sole reason why I didnt play much of dragon dogma.

If someone says that x is souls like, I always assume that its about UI & controls.


How shit does your pc have to be to experience issues from souls games on pc??? Or are you talking about the input lag on attack that took whole 10 seconds to research how to fix on ds2? Or that you gasp needed to play the game designed for controlled on controller like ds1?

There are legit bad ports that lag the shit out of pcs despite being shit graphics like tomb raider, nier, buncha other stuff but ds is fucking ancient and runs like butter that shit is ur pc my friend not the port.
 

SkiNNyBane

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,090
Location
NY
Grab the Codex by the pussy
the rabid fanbase especially those ignorant of gaming history can be annoying, but honestly I'm glad they're vocal as fuck. It's a genuinely good game, a return of classic Japanese ARPG game design (with a small handful of innovations), and the more people that play it as a result of these rabid, extremely vocal and fanatical individuals the better. The end goal here being the conversion of the people playing and worshipping pretty much any other modern high profile game, because everything else is varying degrees of garbage or compromised and fuck me do standards need to be reset back to the good ole days.
I actually belong in the camp of people that intentionally shun things that people rabidly hype up. I've avoided Souls series for this very reason. Well, that, and the horrible controller -> kb/m port job, and no, I'm not getting a controller and learning to use it just because a dev team making a video game to make money can't figure out how to do that thing that hundreds of other devs have managed to accomplish. So yeah, I guess I'll get the series with some kind of a fan patch when the fans finally shut up about the amazing virtues of it all.

Your so cool for avoiding popular games dude like omg!
 

Deathsquid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
382
the rabid fanbase especially those ignorant of gaming history can be annoying, but honestly I'm glad they're vocal as fuck. It's a genuinely good game, a return of classic Japanese ARPG game design (with a small handful of innovations), and the more people that play it as a result of these rabid, extremely vocal and fanatical individuals the better. The end goal here being the conversion of the people playing and worshipping pretty much any other modern high profile game, because everything else is varying degrees of garbage or compromised and fuck me do standards need to be reset back to the good ole days.
I actually belong in the camp of people that intentionally shun things that people rabidly hype up. I've avoided Souls series for this very reason. Well, that, and the horrible controller -> kb/m port job, and no, I'm not getting a controller and learning to use it just because a dev team making a video game to make money can't figure out how to do that thing that hundreds of other devs have managed to accomplish. So yeah, I guess I'll get the series with some kind of a fan patch when the fans finally shut up about the amazing virtues of it all.

Your so cool for avoiding popular games dude like omg!
Ya I know, but even you can be my internet friend, for a price.

How shit does your pc have to be to experience issues from souls games on pc??? Or are you talking about the input lag on attack that took whole 10 seconds to research how to fix on ds2? Or that you gasp needed to play the game designed for controlled on controller like ds1?

There are legit bad ports that lag the shit out of pcs despite being shit graphics like tomb raider, nier, buncha other stuff but ds is fucking ancient and runs like butter that shit is ur pc my friend not the port.
Btw, on a serious side, this is the shit attitude that I can't excuse. What's that? NWN2 has a shit camera? WELL IT COULD BE WORSE YOU COULD BE PLAYING A PROCTOLOGIST SIMULATOR U BIG CRYBABY!!!! DEVS DID THIS BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS AND NOT BECAUSE THIS IS A COMMERCIAL PRODUCT! FUCK YOU!!!

WHATS THIS??? FROM GAMES RELEASED TWO SHIT PORTS IN A ROW WHILE EVEN ROCKSTAR HAS FINALLY LEARNED TO PORT FLIGHT CONTROLS IN GTA 5???? FUCK YOU YOU IDIOT LOL THEY DONT OWE YOU ANYTHING LOOK FOR FIXES GIT GUD AND ALSO BUY A CONTROLLER AND GET A BIGGER DICK! LOL!



...You know what, on second thought, you can't be my internet friend. Sorry.
 

mbv123

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
917
Location
Lettland
Souls is weeb trash for tryhard casuals.
Real men play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Chernobyl on Ironman as a Bandit.
 

Deathsquid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
382
By the way, on a completely serious note, I don't get this "Designed to be played with a gamepad" thing.

So I've played Street Fighter um, IV I think? On KBM, without too much trouble. Yeah, it wasn't stellar, but I still managed to play and enjoy it. It's a fighting game thing designed for a controller.
So I've also played this game called Just Cause 2, it was designed for controller and released on a console and then later on was ported to PC. KBM is fantastic.
I've also played Hollow Knight, that recommends you, straight off the cut, to play it with a gamepad because it'll prolly suck on KBM. Guess what? It doesn't suck on KBM!
Hell, SpecOps: The Line controls were tolerable, and the budget on that was shit, and the port wasn't very good.
Binary Domain has better controls and that port is shit.
Deadly Premonition might be on par, I'll give you that.

So like, what exactly is so complicated with making a working camera and remappable built-in control scheme for KBM? From did try their best and actually managed KBM in the third game at fucking last (the camera still sucks ass though), so I'm guessing it wasn't all that designed for gamepads after all, then, no? Is it some kind of submarine simulator that ah fuck it
 

SkiNNyBane

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,090
Location
NY
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Serious answer: controller has TWO non binary input sticks. K+M has only mouse for non binary input. Which means for games of this nature they need to either remove aiming or camera control for the user making the other automated. Controllers can have you control both camera and aim at the same time without a problem.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235
You don't just lose souls. You also lose locational and combat progress. Some obstacles are permanently cleared (bosses, shortcuts etc) but common enemies always respawn, and any items you obtain are permanently yours, yet also any items you use are also not restocked upon death (except estus). It also strikes an excellent balance in consequences of not being too punishing, nor too lenient. It does have one fatal flaw wherein once you know the path and enemy placement, you can just run past everything with such ease. All in all a good system though.

So they basically invented checkpoints. WOW.

What's next coming from the saviors of gaming, 3 lives? Entering 8-digit codes to access levels beyond 1? OMG, maybe a joystick?

WTF? You're saying that as if I'm making it out to be some grand innovation. I was merely correcting Suicidal who said you only lose souls...dumbdick.

By the way, on a completely serious note, I don't get this "Designed to be played with a gamepad" thing.

So I've played Street Fighter um, IV I think? On KBM, without too much trouble. Yeah, it wasn't stellar, but I still managed to play and enjoy it. It's a fighting game thing designed for a controller.
So I've also played this game called Just Cause 2, it was designed for controller and released on a console and then later on was ported to PC. KBM is fantastic.
I've also played Hollow Knight, that recommends you, straight off the cut, to play it with a gamepad because it'll prolly suck on KBM. Guess what? It doesn't suck on KBM!
Hell, SpecOps: The Line controls were tolerable, and the budget on that was shit, and the port wasn't very good.
Binary Domain has better controls and that port is shit.
Deadly Premonition might be on par, I'll give you that.

So like, what exactly is so complicated with making a working camera and remappable built-in control scheme for KBM? From did try their best and actually managed KBM in the third game at fucking last (the camera still sucks ass though), so I'm guessing it wasn't all that designed for gamepads after all, then, no? Is it some kind of submarine simulator that ah fuck it

You can play most PC games with a gamepad, and most console games with M+K. Whowuddathunkit! though some genres are better suited to one or the other, it's still typically doable whatever you choose, even if there are minor compromises.
 

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