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Ori and the Blind Forest

Moon Studios, SJW shills?

  • Yes

  • Probably

  • kingcomrade

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spectre

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It's probably my favorite platformer. And I'm not really into platformers. You faggots should just go and play it instead of mewling about sjws and hipsters. It's neither of these things and instead is a well made game.
Not sure how it holds up for a hardcore metroidvania fan, difficulty wise it always felt very fair with no major spikes. The gameplay flows very smoothly as the levels open up to you as you unlock abilities.
It's theoretically possible to complete this without dying or using an ability point. Speedruns can take under 20 minutes (compared to my 16-hour-ish playthrough when I took my sweet time) so there's some room for getting good.

Anyways, a sequel was announced, but so far we only got a teaser.
 

DraQ

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It's probably my favorite platformer. And I'm not really into platformers. You faggots should just go and play it instead of mewling about sjws and hipsters. It's neither of these things and instead is a well made game.
Anyone complaining that "unspecified gender protagonist" == "sjw propaganda" really needs to come back up for air. Badly.
 

SkiNNyBane

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
It's probably my favorite platformer. And I'm not really into platformers. You faggots should just go and play it instead of mewling about sjws and hipsters. It's neither of these things and instead is a well made game.
Anyone complaining that "unspecified gender protagonist" == "sjw propaganda" really needs to come back up for air. Badly.

Tread carefully one of them alpha bros might get fully erect and make another shitpost in response to your heresy in this holy war.
 

DraQ

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PC master race reigns supreme!
After so many "WTF? I don't even have this many hands, FFS!" moments, I have managed to wrangle the control scheme into basically my standard FPP scheme adopted for highly dynamic 2D platformer.
:martini:
Now I can bask in the awesome without having to partake in needless frustration (other than that which results from game being fucking mental - anyone suggesting that this is a casul game is either a troll, nutcase or a fucking Japanese).
:incline:
...
And there was much rejoicing.
 
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DraQ

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Ok, Mount Horu is fucking mental. Whoever made this is fucking insane, whoever managed to test it is.. I don't even.
There were at least two sequences that went full "you've got to be fucking kidding me" - as in propelling yourself across labyrinths made of instakill lava, having enemy projectiles as the only way to defy gravity, or navigating labyrinths made of spikes while staying aloft in similar manner, while fighting those aforementioned enemies that could only be killed by own redirected projectiles - in such way that you don't cut yourself off higher portions of the labyrinth or from the way back, because you need to finish them all AND come back, and all the surfaces are made of spikes.
As a result, my everything hurts.

When I had to run from fucking lava I welcomed it as a light, Ginso flavoured breather (Ginso was probably the first part that really made you throw stuff and scream gibberish at walls).
:prosper:
Anyone who claims this is casual either hasn't made it to Ginso, let alone Horu, is fucking mental, is fucking liar, or is an escaped Japanese AI project.

And both music and art direction are fucking beautiful.
I don't even like platformers that much.
 

DraQ

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Right before,what I believe, will be the final sequence.
Mad respect to everyone who helped this game happen.
:salute:

Now, one thing regarding difficulty - it is entirely possible that this is a casual game, after all, and I'm simply as horribly inept at platformers as some are at, say, Quake 2.
However, I don't think this is the case - if only because in Q2 you don't have to spend what would amount to entire levels surfing enemy projectiles without ever touching ground as a prerequisite for completion.

Once you get past the Youtube-bait intro, everything becomes so cold and unemotional.
That's one statement I cannot agree with, other than that your post is spot-on.
 

DraQ

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Just beat the game.
It's just flawless, from art direction, through animations, through glorious soundtrack, through atmosphere and everything.
:salute:

Well, mostly everything: PC control scheme is plain bad and even though it can be effectively remediated, it is not obvious how to set it up effectively, and if done better for KBM it could have effectively obviated the need for pausing the game on bash or limiting controls when aiming light burst/charged jump, the text also seems slightly engrishy, further contributing to the feel that it's a Japanese, rather than European game (although given that it hits the high mark left by Miyazaki in terms of atmosphere and such that's hardly a fault even for someone who isn't exactly fan of Japanese stuff).

Further elaborating on previous point:
Once you get past the Youtube-bait intro, everything becomes so cold and unemotional.
That's one statement I cannot agree with, other than that your post is spot-on.
The game is very dependent on emotions for driving its story and storytelling to the point where the plot just wouldn't function without them. That doesn't, by any means invalidate the other points, like everyone being someone else's monster and so on. Overall the plot, while not complex, is well constructed, plays well with game's themes and ties it all together while not failing at (if you forgive this awful word) engaging the player.

The final sequence was, surprisingly enough, easier than most of the stuff in Mount Horu, although still quite demanding. I might criticize it for being too reliant on repetition and learn by dying, but since it actually provided all the cues beforehand (even if only by scant split seconds) I'll concede that all the deaths during the final sequence were my fault.

Somewhere under a thousand Oris were harmed when making this post.
:salute: :(

TL;DR:
1. If you want a great, atmospheric platformer, buy this game.
2. If you're not usually into platformers you might not know that 1. is the case, so as long as you haven't already, buy this game.
 

DraQ

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One more thing:
The thing I think contributes the most to this game's impact is how beautifully synergistic everything is and complements each other.

Most games are quite accidental in their design, when they happen to be awesome, it's mostly through luck. Admittedly, making perfect or near perfect platformer is much easier task than making a perfect RPG, because of how constrained platformer is in comparison, but it's no small feat - here you have too big a pile-up of stuff to seriously consider product of luck - even small things like semi-interactive cutscenes featuring other, much less agile character (Naru) priming player for how the basic movement and physics are calibrated in game, or how music keeps playing if you get killed and respawn (I'm not the first to make this observation) keeping you in the action and spun-up, or how its pacing in tense sections like escape sequences matches general pace of player movement (timing of wall jumps or rapid bash sequences), effectively helping propel - forcefully if need be - the player (especially less skilled one) through the otherwise traumatizingly frustrating moments (I wasn't joking or exaggeratingabout some sequences in Horu when I said they got me laughing hysterically - it felt idiotically optimistic at the time that someone made such a sequence while thinking that people will be able to complete it - the fool - and I was really just sitting there emitting this hearty, yet joyless and overall hopeless laughter). Having the awesome soundtrack constantly hit you somewhere between soul and gonads really helps you grit your teeth and tell yourself that now you will be those few ms faster, more precise, more perfect and fucking beat this fucking thing.

Another interesting thing is that - in no small part thanks to the constrained nature of a platformer - Ori manages to nearly seamlessly merge gameplay and scripted content - even outright cutscenes tend to be at least semi interactive and retain consistent control scheme with the rest of the experience because the movements, even predetermined ones that you just trigger in full cutscene mode just feel like natural response to your input.

Speaking of input, while original keybinds are bad and control scheme could use some refinement for superior HIDs (KBM), kinaesthetically the game is just glorious - Ori's animations adapt smoothly to the environment and the mobility itself is just glorious, early in game you already get powerful stuff like wall and double jumping in addition to just Ori's natural speed agility, later you can rapidly (but by no means efortlessly, at least on your - player's - part) cross vast portions of levels without even touching scenery (and will need it too because spikes, lava, spikes in lava, and lava filled spikes, also lava) and it feels great, especially when you're soaking in the visuals, atmosphere and OST.

Lastly, Ori is an irresistible protagonist. You see, the character you play as, whether predefined or customized is important. If you can't like the character, or identify with them or some part of their goals, or find some other reason to accompany them, you will soon feel bored and detached at which point you will quit. Ori just happens to be the kind of critter you physically cannot dislike or not root for - cutesy comes packaged with extreme agility and grim determination. It's hard to not care for Ori, because at this point someone just has to. OTOH I probably wouldn't be able to play any, say, Rayman game, because Rayman's design - just the face alone - trigger irresistible punching reflex in me and this is unhealthy for my keyboard.
The character that generally relies on cunning and speed to avoid threats also feels quite refreshing and easier to root for (because there is just no drama when the nominal protagonist can just steamroll stuff) and (this is not just my own observation either) it's fitting for such character to be engaged in escape sequences in place of boss battles.

Finally (I lied when saying "lastly") good antagonists are sympathetic. While inexplicable assholes are by no means unrealistic, they add certain amount of futility to the story. Just like it's generally not good design to just randomly kill player and just like you can expect some sort of fairness from a game even if life generally isn't fair, antagonists that aren't just random assholes make for better stories. For such a simple game Ori weaves everyone's motives, knowledge and means quite tightly into the story, so it flows well while also featuring some treats for the observant player.

I am not a plaformer fan. I consider, perhaps wrongly, most platformers to just not be worth of my attention - but Ori, hitting me simultaneously from all directions with its concerted implosion of full spectrum awesomeness has proven to be impossible to ignore, it hooked me on the first contact and - if it's not readily apparent - it hit me HARD.
:salute:
 
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lightbane

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So, now that I finally have a powerful computer, I played this. The intro is horrible and straight out of hipster walking simulator games, but thankfully it doesn't last long. The whole thing looks pretty and shiny, sometimes to the point that it's a bit distracting, but it's not an aberration with bloom overuse like standard AAA games. It also doesn't pretend to hide the main source of inspiration, when one of the levels is called "Valley of the Wind", lel. Nevertheless, it seems fun so far.

Lastly, the thread's poll is stupid. Here is Ori, the main character:

ori_and_the_blind_forest___ori_and_sein_by_sp_hera-d8sqqu4.jpg


Please tell me where you can see its female or male bits. Also, Ori is a literal nature spirit complete with inner glow and being born from a fucking leaf. And a child to boot.
So whatever people Ori identify with, it doesn't matter.
 

cvv

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I just wish it wasn't so fucking difficult. Saw it, it looked shiny and nice, so I bought it for my nieces (6 and 8 yo) but they got stuck very fast even tho they're pretty good at vidya. I then played it myself and thought why the fuck they make these games so fucking hard. Artistically they're clearly aimed at kids but only adults can reasonably play it.

Now Seasons After Fall, that's a fantastic game for young kids.
 

DraQ

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I just wish it wasn't so fucking difficult. Saw it, it looked shiny and nice, so I bought it for my nieces (6 and 8 yo) but they got stuck very fast even tho they're pretty good at vidya. I then played it myself and thought why the fuck they make these games so fucking hard.
Only through tears, sweat, blood and shards of broken KB/mice/controllers (the cause of said blood) can the next generation grow to bring about the incline.
:obviously:

When we were their age not only did we walk to school barefoot in the snow (uphill both ways), but we also played difficult games without savestates, GUI to load them from and often even manuals.

So, now that I finally have a powerful computer, I played this. The intro is horrible and straight out of hipster walking simulator games, but thankfully it doesn't last long.
rating_butthurt.png


The whole thing looks pretty and shiny, sometimes to the point that it's a bit distracting, but it's not an aberration with bloom overuse like standard AAA games. It also doesn't pretend to hide the main source of inspiration, when one of the levels is called "Valley of the Wind", lel. Nevertheless, it seems fun so far.

Lastly, the thread's poll is stupid. Here is Ori, the main character:

ori_and_the_blind_forest___ori_and_sein_by_sp_hera-d8sqqu4.jpg


Please tell me where you can see its female or male bits. Also, Ori is a literal nature spirit complete with inner glow and being born from a fucking leaf. And a child to boot.
So whatever people Ori identify with, it doesn't matter.
Fucking this.
:salute:
 

Ash

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the game's setting is inspired by Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind? Interesting.
It's allegedly a metriodvania? Go on...
AND it's hard as shit causing casuals to ragequit? (though nobody really likes too hard classic 8-bit battletoads style)

Seems I need to keep an eye on this one.

Edit: hmmm...

So I got around to trying this. Pretty disappointing honestly. It reminds me of Dust: An Elaborate Title. It looks pretty but there's no real challenge to it, and no meaningful sequence breaking (yeah you can get an extra health pip or whatever but all the major upgrades require the previous upgrade or story progression to acquire; you can't skip anything.) This was admittedly much better looking than Dust (probably the best looking platformer I've seen aside from SotN) but the atmosphere was pretty... unfocused? I'm not sure how to describe it. The enemies and characters are just kind of weird random things without any particular theme. There are a bunch of spikes everywhere but no real reason to be there. It certainly didn't have a 'forest' vibe to it, all the areas felt pretty generic and cave like. The story was insultingly simple, and I usually like simple or cliche stories. The lack of punishment for dying takes away all the tension from exploring, and the generally easy difficulty and the fact that you can't miss the important upgrades or get them early means it's not really worthwhile. The exception to this are 3 escape sequences during which you cannot save. These suck, because they're filled with instadeaths and have only 1 viable path, so it's basically just some annoying trial and error shit. It also ruins the mood because death puts you right at the start of the escape sequence, so it's not tense like when they had these in Metroid or Megaman games; where failure would set you back much further (and in the latter's case, you often had optional bonus loot to grab along the way, which had a lot more meaning to it) not to mention it really sucks the life out of the climactic moment when you start it over again 10 times in a row- these sequences are definitely the hardest parts in the game so if you're dying at all, you'll die more here. There's also the problem that these sequences involve a lot of cinematic flash and spectacle, but you've no time to admire any of this shit, because you need to be intently focused on your character lest he fade into the very bright and bloomy scenery.

Would rate this below all of the actual Metroidvanias and Metroids, but above Dust at least, because this was at least nice to look at while playing.

informative.png
 
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Cross

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It's allegedly a metriodvania? Go on...
It's a metroidvania in the same way that Bioshock is a 'Shock' game. It has all the superficial trappings of a metroidvania, but I can't remember a single time where I had to backtrack or even think about where I was going. It might as well have been a traditional platformer with a linear set of stages.

The platforming is pretty enjoyable however, and there's enough variety to keep things entertaining. The weakest parts of the game are the climactic escape scenes (in lieu of boss fights), because they're basically extended quick time events. It doesn't matter what you do or how quickly you move, the flood/tornado/lava chasing you is always scripted to immediately catch up with you any time you outrun it. The story is also pretty terrible.
 

DraQ

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the game's setting is inspired by Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind? Interesting.
It seems heavily inspired by everything Studio Ghibli. It's a good inspiration, though, and it works excessively well - never seen anyone bashing Deus Ex for ripping off Ghost In The Shell either.

It's allegedly a metriodvania? Go on...
Don't know, don't care.
You generally know where to go, but do have to backtrack for extra goodies.
Think original Soul Reaver, except adorable (but not in nauseatingly sugary way and not light) and 2D.

AND it's hard as shit causing casuals to ragequit? (though nobody really likes too hard classic 8-bit battletoads style)
I have beat it, but most of the game is a long train of "Wait, what. Oh. You want me to do what again? B... But how? How the fuck could someone even think it's fucking possible? FFFFUUUU- FFFUUUUU- some more, scream gibberish at walls, because your speech centre has seized up from too much rage" punctuated by pure euphoria when you are jumping on walls while basking in glorious music and visuals.

Seriously, do try it.
It managed to wrangle my attention from nuking shit in space with autistically engineered spaceships. It's good.

Edit: hmmm...

So I got around to trying this. Pretty disappointing honestly. It reminds me of Dust: An Elaborate Title. It looks pretty but there's no real challenge to it, and no meaningful sequence breaking (yeah you can get an extra health pip or whatever but all the major upgrades require the previous upgrade or story progression to acquire; you can't skip anything.) This was admittedly much better looking than Dust (probably the best looking platformer I've seen aside from SotN) but the atmosphere was pretty... unfocused? I'm not sure how to describe it. The enemies and characters are just kind of weird random things without any particular theme. There are a bunch of spikes everywhere but no real reason to be there. It certainly didn't have a 'forest' vibe to it, all the areas felt pretty generic and cave like. The story was insultingly simple, and I usually like simple or cliche stories. The lack of punishment for dying takes away all the tension from exploring, and the generally easy difficulty and the fact that you can't miss the important upgrades or get them early means it's not really worthwhile. The exception to this are 3 escape sequences during which you cannot save. These suck, because they're filled with instadeaths and have only 1 viable path, so it's basically just some annoying trial and error shit. It also ruins the mood because death puts you right at the start of the escape sequence, so it's not tense like when they had these in Metroid or Megaman games; where failure would set you back much further (and in the latter's case, you often had optional bonus loot to grab along the way, which had a lot more meaning to it) not to mention it really sucks the life out of the climactic moment when you start it over again 10 times in a row- these sequences are definitely the hardest parts in the game so if you're dying at all, you'll die more here. There's also the problem that these sequences involve a lot of cinematic flash and spectacle, but you've no time to admire any of this shit, because you need to be intently focused on your character lest he fade into the very bright and bloomy scenery.

Would rate this below all of the actual Metroidvanias and Metroids, but above Dust at least, because this was at least nice to look at while playing.

informative.png
Do mind that Damned Registration's perceptions and tastes are somewhat... peculiar.

The platforming is pretty enjoyable however, and there's enough variety to keep things entertaining. The weakest parts of the game are the climactic escape scenes (in lieu of boss fights), because they're basically extended quick time events. It doesn't matter what you do or how quickly you move, the flood/tornado/lava chasing you is always scripted to immediately catch up with you any time you outrun it.
You're underselling it. True, unless you have inhumanly fast reflexes and can think on your feet at least as fast they will involve learn by dying, and yes, the environmental stuff happening around is scripted, but they do rely purely on movement according to the mechanics, so they are very definitely not QTEs, or at least not the thing we hate in QTEs.

The story is also pretty terrible.
What's a good story to you then? It's a fucking platformer.
Yes, the story isn't all that complex and it's definitely kind of kid-friendly, but it's cohesive, well constructed and sells itself well, which is more than can be said of 99% of stories for bigger and more "serious" games.
It's perfectly serviceable and serves its purpose more than admirably.
If you really gripe about the story it means that you're the type that plays not just computer games, but platformers in particular for story - what the fuck is wrong with you?
 

Cross

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You're underselling it. True, unless you have inhumanly fast reflexes and can think on your feet at least as fast they will involve learn by dying, and yes, the environmental stuff happening around is scripted, but they do rely purely on movement according to the mechanics, so they are very definitely not QTEs, or at least not the thing we hate in QTEs.
Of course it's not a quick-time event in the literal sense. But it follows a similar principle in that it devalues your input. Again, the natural disaster chasing you will always catch up with you at the same moments, no matter if you're the most skilled player or someone who's just barely getting by, which means you can't compensate for say, a badly timed jump by performing a really good double jump later or whatever. It's bad design.

If you really gripe about the story it means that you're the type that plays not just computer games, but platformers in particular for story - what the fuck is wrong with you?
The people who made the game clearly disagree with you, considering how much obvious effort and care was put in the presentation of the story. If they hadn't, I wouldn't have even mentioned it.

The story is terrible because it's nothing more than a series of lazy gotcha!'s meant to evoke ~feels~.
Killing off the player's mother figure, resurrecting her later through some contrived MacGuffin for a happy ending, the last-minute reveal that the villain is a misunderstood victim while glossing over the fact that this makes the protagonists look utterly despicable, etc. It's lame and uninspired even by video game standards.
 

DraQ

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You're underselling it. True, unless you have inhumanly fast reflexes and can think on your feet at least as fast they will involve learn by dying, and yes, the environmental stuff happening around is scripted, but they do rely purely on movement according to the mechanics, so they are very definitely not QTEs, or at least not the thing we hate in QTEs.
Of course it's not a quick-time event in the literal sense. But it follows a similar principle in that it devalues your input. Again, the natural disaster chasing you will always catch up with you at the same moments, no matter if you're the most skilled player or someone who's just barely getting by, which means you can't compensate for say, a badly timed jump by performing a really good double jump later or whatever. It's bad design.
If you're skilled player you don't need such compensation, if you are not a skilled player, you are fucked if you do. I don't mind rubberbanding if it's not transparent and doesn't break mechanics - beats virtually all the other concessions to storytelling, like forced cutscenes that put you in bad situation you wouldn't put yourself in if you had control.

The people who made the game clearly disagree with you, considering how much obvious effort and care was put in the presentation of the story. If they hadn't, I wouldn't have even mentioned it.
They probably wouldn't. No matter how much effort and care was put into the story (and I consider it well invested effort and care, BTW), it's the story crafted for the medium that doesn't have capacity for massive convoluted stories, it stays tight and coherent (I could shoot far more holes in most of the Codex's Top10 stories), and works well in the context. If you were expecting a PS:T instead, have your head checked.

The story is terrible because it's nothing more than a series of lazy gotcha!'s meant to evoke ~feels~.
Killing off the player's mother figure, resurrecting her later through some contrived MacGuffin for a happy ending, the last-minute reveal that the villain is a misunderstood victim while glossing over the fact that this makes the protagonists look utterly despicable, etc. It's lame and uninspired even by video game standards.
For what's it worth the first part at least works way better than about 90% of early game attempts to make player care about anything - contrast this with, say, Dishonored (coincidentally also very movement-centric game).

The last part is nothing bad either - antagonists who have their own legitimate reasons are vastly preferable to assholes without cause (we have enough of those IRL), and I'm not seeing how it makes the protagonist look despicable given that nothing nothing that happened originally was in any way preventable by the protagonist while trying to survive and at the same time also attempting to stop the gigantic and destructive clusterfuck those events have set off also isn't something the protagonist could be held at fault for doing.

As for the McGuffin and whether or not it was contrived and arbitrary, I'm reserving judgement until the sequel.
Do mind that Damned Registration's perceptions and tastes are somewhat... peculiar.
They sure are, pot.
:lol: :salute:
 

Damned Registrations

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Have you played either Iji or Hollow Knight, Draq? Those are pretty much my gold standards for the genre at this point, albeit each for entirely different reasons.
 

DraQ

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Have you played either Iji or Hollow Knight, Draq? Those are pretty much my gold standards for the genre at this point, albeit each for entirely different reasons.
Nope. I actually got Ori entirely by accident - my SO got it as a gift on Steam, and after determining it's pretty fucking good I promptly got it from GOG myself.

There is certain combination of factors to Ori that just hits you hard and then refuses to let you go - different gameplay and artistic elements (music, visuals) mesh together for great effect.
Admittedly, I'm not a platformer guy, but I haven't played a finer one.
:salute:
 

DraQ

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Bumpdate: Apparently it takes about two consecutive playthroughs to clear Ori out of your system - the way movement mechanics feels combined with awesome OST, gorgeous visuals, atmosphere and pretty much everything leaves you craving for moar. Anyway, I'm done for now and probably until the sequel unless it's massively delayed.

The game does get substantially easier on later playthroughs (even as you increase skill level), but by no means easy - it merely downgrades from fucking mental to mostly reasonable.
Do mind, that by Ori's standards "mostly reasonable" still translates to "Floor is lava: level hard - everything is lava" by the end of the game.
 

SCO

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Now, one thing regarding difficulty - it is entirely possible that this is a casual game, after all, and I'm simply as horribly inept at platformers as some are at, say, Quake 2.
What you're missing draq, is that the last decade was the decade of the 'hard indie platformers' (because they're cheap to make). If edgers are calling a game like this casual, they quite likely comparing it to things that even the NES library would object.
for example:


Hacks are if anything even more edgy, like the infamous Kaizo Mario World, etc. Granted most of this trash is 'unfair' difficulty of the memorization kind, but not always.
 
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Damned Registrations

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The difference is, hitting the lava or spikes in Ori doesn't mean much of anything. You're only going to be set back like 5 seconds, so who gives a fuck? It's like playing with save states. It's also generally not that hard; you've got so many forgiving mechanics with double jumps, glides, wall climbing and even time freezing it makes it all pretty trivial:



A section like that really isn't difficult at all compared to something like this:

 

DraQ

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The difference is, hitting the lava or spikes in Ori doesn't mean much of anything. You're only going to be set back like 5 seconds, so who gives a fuck? It's like playing with save states.
Or save games in any normal genre.

Anyway, as of Definitive Edition there is an explicit ironman mode in game - the game is set to hard and you don't get to respawn upon death.
Your video of unbroken, start-to-end playthrough of Ori in ironman mode is where again?
+M
 

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