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(TW3) Exploration sucks in this game

Falksi

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If you play The Witcher 3 for the loot you're doing it wrong.

The exploration is only good for the amazing visuals and world design. That's it.

There are some interesting quests to be found out in the wild but not many. Fallout: New Vegas this isn't.

The Witcher 3 excels in its storytelling, C&C reactivity and signposted quests. It didn't need to be Bethesda open world, but CDProjekt looked at Oblivion/Skyrim and said, "Those are shit, we can do better", and they did.

Morrowind looked at all 3 and said "FFS, 13 years on and you're all still playing catchup"
 

Deleted member 7219

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If you play The Witcher 3 for the loot you're doing it wrong.

The exploration is only good for the amazing visuals and world design. That's it.

There are some interesting quests to be found out in the wild but not many. Fallout: New Vegas this isn't.

The Witcher 3 excels in its storytelling, C&C reactivity and signposted quests. It didn't need to be Bethesda open world, but CDProjekt looked at Oblivion/Skyrim and said, "Those are shit, we can do better", and they did.

Morrowind looked at all 3 and said "FFS, 13 years on and you're all still playing catchup"

I must have missed the C&C in Morrowind.

Morrowind is my second favourite game, but come on.
 

Falksi

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If you play The Witcher 3 for the loot you're doing it wrong.

The exploration is only good for the amazing visuals and world design. That's it.

There are some interesting quests to be found out in the wild but not many. Fallout: New Vegas this isn't.

The Witcher 3 excels in its storytelling, C&C reactivity and signposted quests. It didn't need to be Bethesda open world, but CDProjekt looked at Oblivion/Skyrim and said, "Those are shit, we can do better", and they did.

Morrowind looked at all 3 and said "FFS, 13 years on and you're all still playing catchup"

I must have missed the C&C in Morrowind.

Morrowind is my second favourite game, but come on.

Nah, I just missed it in TW3.

OK, so that's not totally fair. But I think TW3's C&C was a massive step back from earlier games, including TW2, and in Morrowind the choice all comes from the character build, and how you play the game itself. Most quests have shed loads more solutions than those in TW3, simply through how you play it.
 
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Yeah, or more likely they wanted to attract the mumorpege crowd, like cross said
MMO players are certainly part of (but not the entirety of) the crowd that doesn't see the point to a game world unless it nets them a better plasma gun...

Might as well not bother with implementing exploration in the game then (or an open world, for that matter)
A good quest is already its own reward.

While TW3 certainly has issues with many of its systems including its quest reward system (quest reward gear and contract bounties are glaring examples of that), how the alchemy refill system works, how the game even has trouble handling enemy levels when you can run into a lv30 drowner who'd kill a lower level archgriffin in 1 hit, these systems' problem is primarily that they make the game world seem less coherent/consistent, affecting the player's suspension of disbelief. Of course it would be far more enjoyable if the reward money/gear for quests was useful (even better if it was needed) and these balancing/consistency issues can eventually be fixed by mods(ghost mode, enhanced edition, fcr3, preparations, primer, lore friendly economy all try to). But ultimately nobody is really exploring and taking on contracts for the money, and the game does explain that witcher gear is the best gear and you can get it from following treasure hunt quests, there's no need to aimlessly wander around if your goal is better gear.

And none of those issues have any bearing on your example of expecting better loot from killing some big old critter tucked away at the edge of the map. The problem there isn't that the game gave you a weak randomized sword as loot instead of a more powerful unique handplaced one, the problem is that you shouldn't have expected a sword as a reward for something like that to begin with and the game shouldn't give you one. Getting better gear from stronger monsters and feeding a compulsion loop is the kind of crap bethesda, diablo or mmo players expect, and it's in catering to their expectations that TW3 bungled things that worked in previous games (enemies drop healing potions, drink potions and eat food instantly during combat, endgame gear orders of magnitude better than starter gear, rare and expensive items in random baskets and barrels).
 
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Santander02

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A good quest is already its own reward.

What the fuck are you on about? I never even said anything about the quests being good or bad, and didn't brought up the contracts at all, just that the rewards for certain quests are inadequate. Especially the ones where the characters outright talk about how awesome a certain item is supposed to be only for it to be piece of crap

And none of those issues have any bearing on your example of expecting better loot from killing some big old critter tucked away at the edge of the map. The problem there isn't that the game gave you a weak randomized sword as loot instead of a more powerful unique handplaced one, the problem is that you shouldn't have expected a sword as a reward for something like that to begin with and the game shouldn't give you one.
Getting better gear from stronger monsters and feeding a compulsion loop is the kind of crap bethesda, diablo or mmo players expect,

Uh huh, that's why diablo, mmo's and nuBeth games are filled to the brim with non random, hand placed loot :roll:.You know what yeah, I do enjoy to find a unique, non randomized piece of gear as a reward for exploring a distant, off the beaten path location, it gives the player a nice motivation to see the gameworld the devs created, Morrowind did this, New Vegas did this, the Gothic games did this and hell even Wicther 1 and 2 did this to an extent. Apparently to you that means those games are just like diablo then :retarded:

You seem to think that RPGs should not have any sort of unique loot or other or other such rewards for exploring around interesting locations because, what, "realism"? fuck that shit.
 
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What the fuck are you on about? I never even said anything about the quests being good or bad
You said that without the dangling carrot of a better weapon "Might as well not bother with implementing exploration in the game then (or an open world, for that matter)". I immediately replied that there are other rewards for exploration such as finding interesting quests. What's so fucking hard to get about that?
 

Santander02

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"Finding interesting quests" my ass, the vast majority of those question marks are nothing but repetitive drags. Alright then I concede then you can give the player something else besides gear (But I'll point out that just before you were claiming he should get nothing more than useless monster faeces, in which case, yes I do believe making an exploration rpg where the player gets literally nothing for said exploring is dumb as hell), like some written notes or meeting a minor character that gives you some lore tidbits. but the vast majority of those "points of interest" in this game don't give the player even that, not even the challenge of killing tough monsters, since after killing the same monsters over and over again they become piss easy as long as you passed whatever arbitrary level gate they are behind, making clearing those question marks nothing more than huge waste of time. The only one of those that remain somewhat interesting are the treasure hunts, and not for the "treasure" itself but for the little stories written on the notes leading to the treasure itself. The others, guarded treasures, monster nests, etc really might as well not be fucking there.

And what the heck does Frodo has to do with anything...
 
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Eyestabber

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Witcher equipment is the only game in town and everything else is garbage. Recipes are the only worthwhile thing you may find in containers.
 

Jenkem

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Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
TW3 sucks in general. Not sure why it was so hyped up when it literally took steps backwards from TW1 and TW2 to make it a more streamlined, checkpoint infested, "open world" with markers all over the place made for the absolutely lowest common denominator.. oh nvm I see now why it was hyped up by sonyfags and plebs..

even the story is shite with magical elf girl da chosen one trope and generic as fuck wild hunt bad dark iceboi elves.. fuck off

Hearts of Stone was good though, still haven't played Blood and Wine.
 

Metro

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2 was shit, not sure why people are surprised 3 is shit, too. But CDP has a baked-in audience of drooling apologists so they make millions.
 

RoSoDude

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Might as well not bother with implementing exploration in the game then (or an open world, for that matter), but I really, really doubt the game has such an atrocious loot system for the sake of lore of all things.

Thanks for the mods anyway, anyone has some more?

Lithium Flower put together a compilation of mods with his own tweaks, one of which rebalances the loot economy of the game to put the valuable loot in dungeons, caves, and mines and keep stuff out of barrels and crates in villages. It's still randomized, but the loot tables are revised (and level scaling is addressed as a whole). The modpack also includes a bunch of other changes as well, check it out for yourself.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't think there's a point in modding TW3. Just play it as it's supposed to be played: Without thinking, fast action in amazingly beautiful vistas with C&C and occasionally interesting quests/story
Trying to add meaningful looting and exploration and so on now doesn't really make sense
 

Gerrard

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Now try making this thread on r/thewitcher. That place is giving ye olde BSN a run for its money.
 

taxalot

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Discussing gameplay in Witcher 3 is a ridiculous affair. It is a game without any. It is a glorified non-linear walking simulator with some Telltale choices included.

The game has nothing when it comes to character building : it impacts hardly the experience which is based mostly around your level. I am playing the game in New Game + right now and although some enemies can't even land a hit and I'm attacking like mad, said enemies cannot be defeated because my level is too low. While some would call this RPG-like, they are mistaken. There are more to RPGs difficult encounters than just waiting for the story progression to have unlocked the possibility to kill them.

Combat, in Witcher 3, while proposing crafting, oils, mutagens, a small assortment of spells with modifiers, long range and close range combat pretty much amounts to this : cast Quen, attack, roll/dodge back when you see the enemy phoning in his attack, attack again. If by poor chance you are hit, recast Quen. Axii and Yrden are useful for some opponents but that is rarely the case.

There is nothing there. You fight a cockatrice, a ghoul, a wolf, a witch hunter exactly the same way you fight anything else. I have rarely played a so-called RPG with gameplay so poor.

The game has many strengths and qualities ; exploration, dialogs, storytelling and writing being some, visuals being others. It is, artistically, one of the best achieved RPGs. This makes the game deserves praise in its own right ?

But its gameplay ? Complaining about the loot system ?

Are you serious ?
 

Reapa

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Discussing gameplay in Witcher 3 is a ridiculous affair. It is a game without any. It is a glorified non-linear walking simulator with some Telltale choices included.

The game has nothing when it comes to character building : it impacts hardly the experience which is based mostly around your level. I am playing the game in New Game + right now and although some enemies can't even land a hit and I'm attacking like mad, said enemies cannot be defeated because my level is too low. While some would call this RPG-like, they are mistaken. There are more to RPGs difficult encounters than just waiting for the story progression to have unlocked the possibility to kill them.

Combat, in Witcher 3, while proposing crafting, oils, mutagens, a small assortment of spells with modifiers, long range and close range combat pretty much amounts to this : cast Quen, attack, roll/dodge back when you see the enemy phoning in his attack, attack again. If by poor chance you are hit, recast Quen. Axii and Yrden are useful for some opponents but that is rarely the case.

There is nothing there. You fight a cockatrice, a ghoul, a wolf, a witch hunter exactly the same way you fight anything else. I have rarely played a so-called RPG with gameplay so poor.

The game has many strengths and qualities ; exploration, dialogs, storytelling and writing being some, visuals being others. It is, artistically, one of the best achieved RPGs. This makes the game deserves praise in its own right ?

But its gameplay ? Complaining about the loot system ?

Are you serious ?
it does not
it's utter crap
 
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Grant me patience...

Uh huh, that's why diablo, mmo's and nuBeth games are filled to the brim with non random, hand placed loot :roll:.
Those games are certainly filled to the brim with rewards and loot (handplaced, unique or otherwise) for every single thing that you do, everything that you find, everything that you kill, every chain of activities getting a reward -no matter its pertinence- to keep feeding the compulsion loop. They pander to the player who asks for constant validation for everything he does much like killing some big dumb animal in the middle of nowhere in the witcher, and it's the pandering to these expectations that got us crap like achievements, or ubisoft-esque trash POIs.

You know what yeah, I do enjoy to find a unique, non randomized piece of gear as a reward for exploring a distant, off the beaten path location, it gives the player a nice motivation to see the gameworld the devs created, Morrowind did this, New Vegas did this, the Gothic games did this and hell even Wicther 1 and 2 did this to an extent.
Sure, finding a daedric sword after fighting through a daedric shrine would be enjoyable and it would make sense to go there looking for it given that by listening to rumors the game tells you that equipment made by daedra is the best as well as collected by the rich & powerful so you have a reasonable expectation of where to find it(although in pratice you likely won't find it there and you already get quests to get you to visit just about every location in the game). Yet if you go to some bumfuck Sheogorad island at the edge of the map and choose to take on the ogrim who could kill you in one hit and manage to kill it he's still just going to drop the same daedra heart a common scamp would, he doesn't have swords hidden in his considerable rump, and the game is better for it(although both it and new vegas certainly suffered from considerable levelscaling).

In TW3 your path to obtaining the best gear starts in a logical way by talking to merchants who point you to master smiths and sell you maps to rumored witcher stashes or talking to other witchers or getting involved with the rich and/or powerful who could own such gear, usually involving quests or at least treasure hunts that will have you exploring plenty of distinctive locations and challenges.

The game doesn't tell you to expect superior gear as a reward for killing the big dumb animals that populate the remote edges of the map.

You seem to think that RPGs should not have any sort of unique loot or other or other such rewards for exploring around interesting locations because, what, "realism"? fuck that shit.
I believe loot(as well as most aspects of a game) should at the very least be coherent with its gameworld. That means no peasant baskets overflowing with jewelry in poverty-stricken velen, a master swordsmith's blade "fit for killing gods" shouldn't be worse than the sword you picked off a backalley robber and the myriad beasts roaming the edges of the map shouldn't be compulsive treasure hoarders nor witcher gear pinatas. Whether you need to find loot in order to feel justified for exploring an interesting location(keyword: interesting) instead of just seeing loot as a bonus is a separate issue. Loot as a primary driver for exploration might make sense in a loose post-apoc game where you need to scavenge for survival, not so much in a story-driven one where you're not even on a quest to survive/establish yourself/become more powerful.

"Finding interesting quests" my ass, the vast majority of those question marks are nothing but repetitive drags.
While I do wish the mechanics for identifying, tracking and battling contract monsters were more involved I still enjoyed the vast majority of the game's quests(even the unmarked little ones that stay hidden for hundreds of hours) so we'll just have to disagree.

But I'll point out that just before you were claiming he should get nothing more than useless monster faeces, in which case, yes I do believe making an exploration rpg where the player gets literally nothing for said exploring is dumb as hell
No, I said you should get little more than shit for rummaging through an oversized bird's nest and you can already get useful bits off its corpse(even some dung is used in alchemy). There are more interesting and loot-likely things to explore in TW3 than a wyvern's arse rest.

the vast majority of those "points of interest" in this game don't give the player even that[...] really might as well not be fucking there.
Oh I totally agree, those guarded treasures, isolated monster nests etc POIs that litter the map, placed as to never be more than 30 secs away from the next POI are garbage that shouldn't have been in the game(and should at least be disabled from the map). Which is ironic because they are in the game precisely to feed those who require constant loot/rewards to suffer through traversing an open world.

And what the heck does Frodo has to do with anything...
A wyvern isn't a treasure-hoarding lotr or d&d dragon, it's a pest. Your complaint about killing an ancient wyvern at the edge of the map and not pulling a legendary unique blade as a reward for it sounds like the kind of thing the game should make fun of if it wasn't already infected with that sort of decline:

Geralt: Fresh scar.

Eskel: Still hurts.

Geralt: Forktail?

Eskel: Wyvern.

Geralt: ...

Eskel: BIG wyvern.

Geralt: Good coin?

Eskel: No contract.

Geralt: So a rescue?

Eskel: Nope, climbed all the way up a mountain peak looking for the biggest one.

Geralt: Ah, potion ingredients.

Eskel: Nah, full flask.

Geralt: What then?

Eskel: Had a theory.

Geralt: About?

Eskel: Balance.

Geralt: Balance?

Eskel: How exceptional rewards should come to those who perform exceptional feats. I expected that for my troubles I would find a finely crafted blade inside the creature's innards, or maybe its nest.

Geralt: Find anything?

Eskel: Just the scar.

Geralt: Who'da thunk it.

Eskel: Enough.

Geralt: Well, I can bunnyhop all the way from Novigrad to Oxenfurt, maybe I'd get some new armor for doing it?

Eskel: I hate you, Wolf.

Lithium Flower put together a compilation of mods with his own tweaks, one of which rebalances the loot economy of the game to put the valuable loot in dungeons, caves, and mines and keep stuff out of barrels and crates in villages.
Updated FCR3 also empties out 85% of trash containers, but IMO it's not enough to significantly improve gear progression.

Neither gear nor enemies should have had levels to begin with.
 
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Santander02

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Jesus Fucking Christ, you really are fixating on the damn wyvern thing aren't you? If it triggers you that much, read the example again and pretend that instead of a wyvern's nest, it's an ancient elven ruin, some mad wizard's hideout, A royal palace's treasury, a rat infested sewer or some smelly peasant's basement's, it doesn't fucking matter, because that is not the fucking point.

Well, FUCK YOU because there is almost no hand placed items in this game, the items themselves are also randomized so here is that same level 10-20 sword that you've already gotten 3 times already

THAT is the point, that it doesn't matter where the heck in the gameworld you explore, you are just likely to find a "unique sword" in a dragon's lair as raiding trough Triss's panty drawer, and what is more, you are just as likely to find duplicate's of the same cocking Sword. Remember Aerondight? that sacred silver sword given to Geralt by the lady of lake in Witcher 1? I found 3 copies if it while faffing about in random locations in Witcher 3, effin 3! That. Is. Retarded. Do you ploughing geddit yet?

While I do wish the mechanics for identifying, tracking and battling contract monsters were more involved I still enjoyed the vast majority of the game's quests(even the unmarked little ones that stay hidden for hundreds of hours) so we'll just have to disagree.

For the second time, I'm not talking about the witcher contracts you dolt.
 
Self-Ejected

c2007

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People play this crap?

Got Witcher 1 cheap on sale. Played it, thought it was cheesy but ok, worth finishing.

Witcher 2 - combat actually got worse, which I didn't think was possible. At a certain point, I got stuck with a bad save before an encounter I am apparently under-levelled for, and after going back to it a few times I couldn't be bothered again.

Witcher 3 - jesus christ, fuck you. Like 5 minutes in.

I want to be excited for Cyberspunk, but honestly I expect it to be a shitshow.

:argh:
 
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THAT is the point, that it doesn't matter where the heck in the gameworld you explore, you are just likely to find a "unique sword" in a dragon's lair as raiding trough Triss's panty drawer, and what is more, you are just as likely to find duplicate's of the same cocking Sword. Remember Aerondight? that sacred silver sword given to Geralt by the lady of lake in Witcher 1? I found 3 copies if it while faffing about in random locations in Witcher 3, effin 3! That. Is. Retarded. Do you ploughing geddit yet?
In that particular case that's actually 3 fakes you have.
HsaAhYq.png


A royal palace's treasury, a rat infested sewer or some smelly peasant's basement's, it doesn't fucking matter, because that is not the fucking point.[...] THAT is the point, that it doesn't matter where the heck in the gameworld you explore, you are just likely to find a "unique sword" in a dragon's lair as raiding trough Triss's panty drawer, and what is more, you are just as likely to find duplicate's of the same cocking Sword.
Off the top of my head don't remember seeing any duplicates for the wolf sword found at the top of the casino, the swords given to you by hjalmar or his father, the vampire swords, the sword you get from a witcher, the sword won in a card tournament, jousting tournament, the dark souls sword, the sword given to you by olgierd, the venomous viper swords etc. There are probably plenty of unique handplaced ones, much moreso than witcher 1, they're just less noticeable in a sea of swords bearing similar names (made from publicly sold diagrams) and prone to obsolescence as you quickly level up(probably why it generates copies). Not to mention all the unique witcher diagrams which have swords for just about every level range.

Won't find them in Triss' panty drawer or some smelly peasant's basement either.

For the second time, I'm not talking about the witcher contracts you dolt.
Right, so when I tell you it's the interesting quests rather than loot that's worth exploring the gameworld for (about half the quests and villages are off the main path) you say that's somehow invalidated by trash POIs? Because they're not optional crap that can be turned off the minimap and ignored?

You know what, merry christmas you inane fuck, you should uninstall the game.
 
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Santander02

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Yeah ask Santa for some anal cream to calm that butthurt.

I only picked up Aerondight as an example cause it was the first item that came to my head, and yeah you dumbass I know about the Aerondight you get BaW, (A DLC that came a whole year after the first game came out) I certainly don't remember anyone anywhere in the game talking about the whole north being inundated with pirated copies of legendary swords, as it is not the only one:

http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_swords_in_The_Witcher_3

e2JZuo3.png


Not only is Finding all these "unique" swords over and over again sucking the enjoyment out of exploring, it is also immersion breaking.

Off the top of my head don't remember seeing any duplicates for the wolf sword found at the top of the casino, the swords given to you by hjalmar or his father, the vampire swords, the sword you get from a witcher, the sword won in a card tournament, jousting tournament, the dark souls sword, the sword given to you by olgierd, the venomous viper swords etc.

You mean all those quest reward swords that are also affected by the level randomization I explained on my previous points, then ones that are more than likely to be trash compared to whatever witcher gear you are already likely to be carrying?

The fact that witcher gear is the only kind of equipment worth hunting for is EXACTLY the problem, bub.

Won't find them in Triss' panty drawer or some smelly peasant's basement either.

Hyperbole motherfucker, do you get them?
 

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