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Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://af.gog.com/news/king_of_dragon_pass_updated_to_remastered_version?as=1649904300

You really shouldn't give this a pass. King of Dragon Pass, the updated version of the seminal strategy/RPG with innovative storytelling, is now available DRM-free on GOG.com with a 50% discount until December 10, 11PM UTC.Almost 20 years after its original release, the fantasy classic returns with a sharper UI and the lovely illustrations cleaned up to be more on par with modern standards. Its seminal worldbuilding and addictive gameplay are as absorbing as ever, plus the added content promises to give veterans extra incentive to return to this wonderful saga.This is a free update for all owners of the classic version, which is now included in this as a bonus goodie.
 
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Endemic

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Looks like it's the Herocraft port? Not a fan of the "streamlining" or the change to the save system. Since it's now a free upgrade for existing owners of KODP, I guess I'll try it out to see the new content and fixes for stuff that didn't work in the original (like the Cragspider attack).
 

Cross

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The new interface looks awfully sterile and like a downgrade from the original. What new content does it add?
 

Gragt

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Looks like it's the Herocraft port? Not a fan of the "streamlining" or the change to the save system. Since it's now a free upgrade for existing owners of KODP, I guess I'll try it out to see the new content and fixes for stuff that didn't work in the original (like the Cragspider attack).

Options that were removed never really did anything in the first place, such as choosing the Battle of Extinguished Field during the prologue—a new option was added, and that one does something. Pigs and sheep were grouped together along with cows into a single “cattle” category and it’s much easier to manage that way. I was initially annoyed by the removal of the option to assign farmer to craftsmen, but then I realised it was essentially a non-choice since I always changed it to the maximum number from the very start of any new game. Other stuff like the types of plants to sow was interesting but ultimately more of annoyance than a game-changer. In the end, a few options were changed, and I would say for the best, but the economic and relationship systems are still very complex and form the strong basis that supports the storytelling aspect. You also get new content (new scenes), and many bugs from the last Windows version fixed.
 
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Endemic

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Other stuff like the types of plants to sow was interesting but ultimately more of annoyance than a game-changer.

To give you one example: planting rye instead of barley when a bad harvest is predicted would offset most of the food loss. Individually the changes might not seem much, but added together I dislike them.

Tracking pigs and sheep separately is relevant because several events (and shrines) rely on those numbers. Eg the sleep plague, the wild boar, Mralota priestesses etc.
 

Gragt

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But you would only need to change your crop distribution when a bad harvest was predicted, or possibly a very good one. Sure, there was some way to play around with the numbers even during a normal year but it was hardly a choice that made or broke the game. If it’s just an automatic choice, i.e., switching from barley to rye when a bad harvest is predicted then switching back, it isn’t terribly interesting. I find it more fun to try and find other ways to deal with the crisis, e.g., trading, raiding, calling in favours, etc.

The game still tracks the numbers of pigs, sheeps, cows, and horses. Horses still retain their own value because they are a category of their own (weaponthanes need them and many events involve horses) but cows, pigs, and sheeps kind of serve the same purpose though cows are a direct measure of your wealth and prestige. These last three have been placed together in the “cattle” category, and it is considered you’ll have twice as many pigs and twice as many sheeps as cows. All in all, the classic version never did much with cows and sheeps: there are events involving pigs and sheeps—which are retained in the modern version; again, pigs and sheeps have not been removed—as you pointed out, but far less than those involving horses and cows; and you couldn’t trade sheeps and pigs though you could trade horses and cows.

David Dunham, the game’s creator, posted about this when he was updating the game for iOS: https://kingofdragonpass.blogspot.mx/2011/02/cows-rule.html

All in all, very little has been removed.: the tula screen at the start of the year is no more—it was fun but became a casualty of the switch to mobile, and you still get the information as a list; some data, like livestock, was condensed together but the individual animal types still exist; a couple of prologue choices are no more but they never did anything to begin with, and another, quite useful, was added in the new version; and crops and craftsmen were pretty much automatic decisions. It makes more sense to focus on the choices you carefully need to consider because they will impact the development of your clan. And again, the new version fixes old bugs and offers more content, plus it is future proof unlike the classic version.
 
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Endemic

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But you would only need to change your crop distribution when a bad harvest was predicted, or possibly a very good one. Sure, there was some way to play around with the numbers even during a normal year but it was hardly a choice that made or broke the game. If it’s just an automatic choice, i.e., switching from barley to rye when a bad harvest is predicted then switching back, it isn’t terribly interesting. I find it more fun to try and find other ways to deal with the crisis, e.g., trading, raiding, calling in favours, etc.

That's true, yes, but I appreciated having another option to deal with impending food shortages, just like when a drought happens you get 5 or so options. Most people that understand the lore will get that sacrificing to Daga is akin to a Faustian bargain, but the option is there nonetheless.

The game still tracks the numbers of pigs, sheeps, cows, and horses. Horses still retain their own value because they are a category of their own (weaponthanes need them and many events involve horses) but cows, pigs, and sheeps kind of serve the same purpose though cows are a direct measure of your wealth and prestige.

You're right that horses and cows are more important in general, but your shrines consume more of the pigs and sheep than cattle, so just having them as multipliers rather than independent variables does impact the turn-to-turn gameplay. If i get a sheep plague and Nevala basically tells me screw off by ignoring my sacrifice, that is going to change what I do with the shrines to avoid a big population drop. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're basically now a subset of cattle so that dilemma is completely removed as long as I have enough cows. After all, this is a game that lowers your clan's birthrate if you enlist the women as militia (among other things), details like that matter because of long term consequences and not just short term ones.

All in all, very little has been removed.: the tula screen at the start of the year is no more—it was fun but became a casualty of the switch to mobile, and you still get the information as a list; some data, like livestock, was condensed together but the individual animal types still exist; a couple of prologue choices are no more but they never did anything to begin with, and another, quite useful, was added in the new version; and crops and craftsmen were pretty much automatic decisions. It makes more sense to focus on the choices you carefully need to consider because they will impact the development of your clan. And again, the new version fixes old bugs and offers more content, plus it is future proof unlike the classic version.

The prologue choices could have been fixed to have the proper effect, like Extinguish Field improving your nobles' combat. After all, some of the bad endings were fixed in the mobile version as I mentioned. I wouldn't automatically max craftsmen if I was short of farmers, so it's situation dependant. Having 3 rather than 4 options for your attitude towards dragons is a reduction in depth as well. The tula screen was pretty basic looking, but it does give you a break from walls of text... without the artwork KODP would be a lot less compelling. I will still be checking it out for the bugfixes and new scenes, I'm just disappointed that we weren't given a proper PC-specific update of KODP rather than just a backport of the mobile release.
 

Gragt

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The classic version was based on some very old software, some of which was discontinued before the game was even released back in 1999. That made any updates to that version impossible. In that way, I get that David Dunham preferred to update the game for iOS, though I wish they could have updated the game for all major platforms of the time. Porting KoDP to other systems, like Android, was touch-and-go for a while until HeroCraft managed to do it.

Still, the only real casualty of the change to mobile was the tula screen—and it was indeed very cool, though you can objectively get the same information from a list—and the rest of the changes would have been carried out anyway. I’m always skeptical about removing things and streamlining content, mostly because that’s usually a magic words lazy designers use to make things simpler for them, but there are also times when streamlining can just simplify enough of a complicated process to make it more fun and engaging than before. There a few options less but that’s really a handful while the rest of the game was kept intact. Having a fourth option to describe how your ancestors had interacted with dragons (besides friendly, neutral, and hostile) may have had some nuance but I doubt it was that meaningful. Pigs and sheeps (again!) are still the same, just tracked differently, since they aren’t a strict multipliers of cows but still depend on the type of land you have.

The main problem I can see with the current Windows version is that the interface is rather reminiscent of mobile platforms, and some things like the tula screen or the magic stone in the clan screens may have been added back from the classic version. David Dunham has complained several time though that he found the original interface cramped (back when they used 640x480), and so he wanted to clear it for mobile. In the end, the Windows version is a port from the Android version which is a port of the iOS version, and it shows, but it also works and it is an improvement over the classic version. I really urge anyone to try and go past any gripes with the interface because it is worth it.
 

udm

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Make the Codex Great Again!
[...]if GOG declined to sell Opus Magnum on their store, perhaps because it looks too much like a mobile game (?!)[...]

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:hmmm:
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Belegarsson

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Just noticed Homeworld: Emergence on GOG and my eyebrow went up, but then I realized that's just good old Cata renamed. Because apparently "Cataclysm" is now a Blizzard trademark. Fuck trademark laws and all lawyers.
 

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