2017/09/27 - Mask of the Betrayer is now a decade old.

[v1rus]

 

[Cael]

The C&C in the last act (circumstances in maps changing based on what order you do them in, with no best-outcome-in-all-circumstances way to go through it) is great.

Also Ziets confirmed that Mask had very little cut content (just a pointless sidequest involving the theater in Mulsantir). If you're upset about how you couldn't tear down the wall, they never even considered that as an option in the first place.

It would take a god to do that, specifically Kelemvor or his successor. There was no way your mortal toon was ever going to do it, naytheist wet dreams aside. Anyone who think they can march into the realm of the god of the dead and tear down a major part of his palace permanently is either a complete moron or so full of hubris that he should be retroactively aborted.

 

[Fedora Master]

MotB is a story that deserved a better engine than the piece of shit that is NWN2s Aurora.

 

[Luckmann]

I still think it feels like an unfinished mess towards the end.

But it was definitely the one that at least felt somewhat finished.

Are you talking MotB or the OC? The OC was an unfinished mess towards the end. MotB didn't feel like it...

The second you step through the gate, everything feels unfinished, unpolished, and rushed, like let's just wrap this shit up, have some shit happen, curtains. That part was a tremendous let-down after a huge build-up in which everything was polished.

After talking to Myrkul it kind of declines, the Crusade waiting for you at the gates is also an ass-pull the reasons for were cut.
As far as I understand you had to go talk to the 3 commanders and convince them to make another Crusade. The siege itself is also kind of underwhelming.

Yeah, it always feels to me like there was originally supposed to be substantially more, and the whole crusade just sorta waiting for you there like a messiah passing through the fucking gate just made me go "wtf?".

I loved MotB, I really did, but unflawed it is not.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, it always feels to me like there was originally supposed to be substantially more, and the whole crusade just sorta waiting for you there like a messiah passing through the fucking gate just made me go "wtf?".

I loved MotB, I really did, but unflawed it is not.

When I first played it I was confused who these people are when I passed through the portal to Kelemvor's plane. Kaelyn never mentioned them specifically nor why they would wait for her at the gates for however long it took for her to get back. The siege kind of felt segmented, tiny maps which were straight-up combat arenas, maybe only the library quarter had non-fighting content. I'm not saying it was bad or unplayable, I'm saying it feels a bit unfinished.

 

[Desert Fish]

If you're upset about how you couldn't tear down the wall, they never even considered that as an option in the first place.

It would take a god to do that, specifically Kelemvor or his successor. There was no way your mortal toon was ever going to do it, naytheist wet dreams aside. Anyone who think they can march into the realm of the god of the dead and tear down a major part of his palace permanently is either a complete moron or so full of hubris that he should be retroactively aborted.

Well, your party practically consist of demi-gods at that point. But eh, I don't know enough about D&D lore, nor do I care to. What I really wanted was an option to join Kaelyn, even if it resulted in a "bad" ending.

 

[Luckmann]

If you're upset about how you couldn't tear down the wall, they never even considered that as an option in the first place.

It would take a god to do that, specifically Kelemvor or his successor. There was no way your mortal toon was ever going to do it, naytheist wet dreams aside. Anyone who think they can march into the realm of the god of the dead and tear down a major part of his palace permanently is either a complete moron or so full of hubris that he should be retroactively aborted.

Well, your party practically consist of demi-gods at that point. But eh, I don't know enough about D&D lore, nor do I care to. What I really wanted was an option to join Kaelyn, even if it resulted in a "bad" ending.

Yeah, I find the "you were never going to survive fighting a god" to be a useless argument. It's true, but it should have basically no bearing on the choices offered to me as a player. If I end up martyring myself or just getting killed because I'm a retard, that's on me. Flat-out not even offering a reasonable option relating to what you've been actually going for for a long time? Ree.

 

[Desert Fish]

Also, in the evil ending, you are able to fight gods and survive, maybe even kill some, so it doesn't seem that crazy if you somehow could turn that power towards taking down the wall.

 

[Citizen]

and now to skullfuck people who claim that the hunger mechanic was a bother

The spirit meter was the best thing possible to prevent restscumming in a d&d game. It perfectly fitted into the story, made the game feel more fast paced (as it should be, you're truying to save your own soul, after all) and supported different playstyles. The IE games ability to rest anytime with little to no consequences is killing me, playing IWD2, I just can't resist the urge to press the damned button after every encounter.

Also resting in every dialogue. "Would you mind if we rested here"

Eh, a simple summon spell to call for a spirit wolf (?) then suppress it is all it take. I dont remember much but spirit meter is simple to deal with. Anyone saying otherwise is just a plain noob.

Even easier: just travel between Mulsantir and Mulsantir's gate and supress. That thing is really hard to miss, but there's no real need to use it even for evil PC. Maybe the soul meter gets annoying on the hardest difficulty, but on normal and D&D it really good.

 

[Roguey]

If I end up martyring myself or just getting killed because I'm a retard, that's on me. Flat-out not even offering a reasonable option relating to what you've been actually going for for a long time

That's time and effort that they couldn't afford to spend on a nonstandard game over (or an unwinnable fight that perhaps some dummy would endlessly retry hoping to succeed).

 

[Cael]

Also, in the evil ending, you are able to fight gods and survive, maybe even kill some, so it doesn't seem that crazy if you somehow could turn that power towards taking down the wall.

You don't have that power until you have basically completed the game. And by that time, it doesn't matter, because you no longer care about the Wall or anything else. You are the hunger, and destroying the Wall would stop that hunger (remember where its source is).

And no, your party doesn't comprise of demi-gods at that point. Even a demi-god in 3.5 has far more power than you ever will in the game, barring the Evil ending. A greater diety like Kelemvor could end you by just thinking about it while he is several miles away while you are on his plane. He didn't need to even face you. No dice roll, nothing. You are in his domain. Die. The fact that he didn't and gave you the chance to regain your soul is an indication that he didn't agree with the Wall either. He is just not willing to act against the status quo, and he has legitimate reasons for that.

You are right in that they should have allowed for a bad ending by allowing you to join Kaelyn. There should have been an option when you were confronting Kelemvor to push the issue and he obliterates you, but I suspect that the developers didn't put that in because they didn't want to deal with all the pack attacks by arrogant naytheists about how their rights are suppressed and all that crap. It would be the same ending as an alphabet soupy getting lynched by a mob for being an alphabet soupy. Imagine the uproar.

 

[Lacrymas]

Cael, your obsession with SJWs and whatever other nonsense you are talking about is starting to grate. Maybe get a life and/or a personality and stop caring so much about that? Or at least spare us your thoughts about it? You are confusing a lot of concepts, using them anachronistically and interchangeably, so it's doubly cringe-y.

About joining Kaelyn - it would be a bit out-of-place narratively speaking, it seems like an ending for a different story. Your goal is your soul, the Crusade doesn't really factor in much until the end, so I don't think it would be a logical ending to this particular story. If there was another act before going to Kelemvor's plane exploring this, then maybe, but as it stands now, eehhh.

 

[Cael]

Cael, your obsession with SJWs and whatever other nonsense you are talking about is starting to grate. Maybe get a life and/or a personality and stop caring so much about that? Or at least spare us your thoughts about it? You are confusing a lot of concepts, using them anachronistically and interchangeably, so it's doubly cringe-y.

No.


Back to the topic, something I just remembered. The developers DID make it possible for you to fight and kill Kaelyn for her utter stupidity, but doesn't allow you, the PC to follow her path and die, no matter how low your Wisdom is. Maybe they are trying to tell us something there?

 

[Lacrymas]

No.

Yes. Still pretty cringe-y.

 

[Projas]

When I first played it I was confused who these people are when I passed through the portal to Kelemvor's plane.

This is actually pretty well foreshadowed in one of the dream sequences in Coveya Kurgannis though, so it's not like they drop out of nowhere.

Spoiler

 

[Cael]

Yes. Still pretty cringe-y.

Compaining about it isn't going to change anything, so you can ignore me or try to live with it.

Your real world 2017 viewpoint is flawed in the context of the Forgotten Realms cosmology and nothing you say will change that, no matter how much you angst. Deal with it. FR is not the real world 2017.

Sometimes, I wish the devs did allow people to try to tear down the Wall so that they get obliterated by Kelemvor. Yay! You paid $x for the game, played 40 hours and BOOM! Non-standard game over! Muahahahaha! Next time, wise up, moron!

 

[Lacrymas]

This is actually pretty well foreshadowed in one of the dream sequences in Coveya Kurgannis though, so it's not like they drop out of nowhere.

It's not really a plot point to be foreshadowed, they simply appear without explanation for why they are waiting there or when they got there if they weren't waiting. If you haven't been paying attention to the specific names in Coveya Kurgannis, then you won't even realize they are the same people from the play, which I certainly didn't on my first playthrough, but still, it's kind of out-of-the-blue even if you were. Why would you expect the same people/entities from centuries ago to be conveniently waiting there for when you arrive?

Compaining about it isn't going to change anything, so you can ignore me or try to live with it.

Your real world 2017 viewpoint is flawed in the context of the Forgotten Realms cosmology and nothing you say will change that, no matter how much you angst. Deal with it. FR is not the real world 2017.

Sometimes, I wish the devs did allow people to try to tear down the Wall so that they get obliterated by Kelemvor. Yay! You paid $x for the game, played 40 hours and BOOM! Non-standard game over! Muahahahaha! Next time, wise up, moron!

You are the one trying to force 2017 mentalities (including your own anti-SJW one) into a game (or in pretty much everything) from a decade ago, which is where the cringe is coming from. You think we are talking about political themes from 2017 or that I'm trying to project it on the game, which is not true, you are the one who is projecting.

 

[Desert Fish]

Cael, your obsession with SJWs and whatever other nonsense you are talking about is starting to grate. Maybe get a life and/or a personality and stop caring so much about that? Or at least spare us your thoughts about it? You are confusing a lot of concepts, using them anachronistically and interchangeably, so it's doubly cringe-y.

No.


Back to the topic, something I just remembered. The developers DID make it possible for you to fight and kill Kaelyn for her utter stupidity, but doesn't allow you, the PC to follow her path and die, no matter how low your Wisdom is. Maybe they are trying to tell us something there?

Kaelyn has a super-human wisdom stat, so that doesn't quite make sense. And if you don't agree that the Wall is unjust, and that freeing the souls in it, even if just one at a time, is a noble undertaking, I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[Projas]

It's not really a plot point to be foreshadowed, they simply appear without explanation for why they are waiting there or when they got there if they weren't waiting. If you haven't been paying attention to the specific names in Coveya Kurgannis, then you won't even realize they are the same people from the play, which I certainly didn't on my first playthrough, but still, it's kind of out-of-the-blue even if you were. Why would you expect the same people/entities from centuries ago?

No reason not to expect them, they are immortal and they made a promise to return when the gate opens. It's pretty clear the dreams in Coveya Kurgannis are important so not paying attention to them is probably a bad idea.

 

[Cael]

Kaelyn has a super-human wisdom stat, so that doesn't quite make sense. And if you don't agree that the Wall is unjust, and that freeing the souls in it, even if just one at a time, is a noble undertaking, I have nothing more to say to you.

Have you MET Kaelyn? That massive Wisdom stat is an informed ability, nothing more. She rants and raves like a 3 year old child denied her candy.

 

[Cael]

You are the one trying to force 2017 mentalities (including your own anti-SJW one) into a game (or in pretty much everything) from a decade ago, which is where the cringe is coming from. You think we are talking about political themes from 2017 or that I'm trying to project it on the game, which is not true, you are the one who is projecting.

Ah, typical butthurt from a naytheist when disagreed with. Accuse the other guy of his own faults. Love it.

I have already stated why I believe that Kaelyn was wrong, how she is the WORST character to have come up with that crap and more in the contect of the Realms. You have read it. That you chose to deny that I ever did says much about you than it does about me.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm actually a Catholic. I don't even know what "naytheist" means. I also explained why you were wrong on so many different levels about Kaelyn, but that doesn't phase you.

 

[Cael]

I'm actually a Catholic. I don't even know what "naytheist" means. I also explained why you were wrong on so many different levels about Kaelyn, but that doesn't phase you.

And I am the Pope, and married the Virgin Mary.

Pfft! A Catholic. Good one. Try pulling the one. It's got a longer string.

 

[Desert Fish]

About joining Kaelyn - it would be a bit out-of-place narratively speaking, it seems like an ending for a different story. Your goal is your soul, the Crusade doesn't really factor in much until the end, so I don't think it would be a logical ending to this particular story. If there was another act before going to Kelemvor's plane exploring this, then maybe, but as it stands now, eehhh.

You already have the choice to continue Akachi's legacy and join the crusade. What seems out of place to me, is that you are forced to leave a potentially trusted and loyal companion to go on without your help.

 

[Lacrymas]

And I am the Pope, and married the Virgin Mary.

Pfft! A Catholic. Good one. Try pulling the one. It's got a longer string.

I don't have a response to that, you are just incoherently babbling and I have no idea what you are trying to say. What I do know, however, is that you are obviously a loser who has no idea what he is talking about or how to talk about it. Yeah, that's an ad hominem, deal with it.

You already have the choice to continue Akachi's legacy and join the crusade. What seems out of place to me, is that you are forced to leave a potentially trusted and loyal companion to go on without your help.

I seem to have forgotten that you could join the Crusade. Then, yeah, leaving Kaelyn behind seems weird in that context.