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In the brutal realms of medieval post-apocalyptic Brazil, people should swear a lot

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
Disproved what? That a high fantasy game isn't a Yugoslavian post-apocalyptic RPG full of edgy slavsquatters? :P Brilliant observation!

PoE probably has more profanity than the IE games on average. But I mean, be careful what you ask for. Edgy swearing in a Western fantasy setting? That already exists, it's called Game of Thrones and it's already widely imitated.

It's already too intimidated.

I'm sick of "Everything is shit, everyone is shit" kind of drama these days. It's a modern equivalent of a teenager thinking something is serious and mature because everyone is using nasty swear words.

GoT is but one facet of all of it. Other things like The Walking Dead exhibit the same tendency, and game wise, The Witcher games walked a fine line that fortunately, didn't find them fully falling into it.

You are really a tryhard atm. Dark ages were worse than any post apocalyptic setting. You don't see games representing people from those ages realistically. PoE is not dark ages but it is not that much better.

That's a problem with a lot of fiction today, even when it comes to crime and murder mysteries set decades ago that paint the time as utter horrible and unlivable.

So much in genres like post-apocalypse is based around the fact that there is no hope and no one having hope, they're just going through the motion until they die, picked off one by one, because who would want to live in such a world? That stands in contrast to the raw survival and prospering that people in centuries past were able to pull off that mated the hardship with the hope for a brighter future.

Do you live in a post Apo world or in a 17th or less century world?

Do you? Do you have written records describing how people talk in a post-apocalyptic world? Or even the 17th century? Games of Thrones doesn't count as an authentic source on these matters.
No, I don't have links to scientific proof. But this is not a topic about science.
But I do have real life experience with average people in a less rich country. I also lived in a western country and seen how people act there. And by reading history and how life looked in the past, by seeing how life looks in Africa today, it is not hard to conclude most RPGs made in Western countries are a far cry away from realism.
Lets see if Daniel Vavra will dare to give us a more realistic version.

The only solid facet of society I've seen evidence of that in was sailing with the average sailor being every bit the stereotype of the hard living, drinking man who swore at every chance he got, but sailing has enough about it to show it wouldn't be a good indication of society as a whole at their time being on the remote edge of society almost akin to being like transients.

Even then, that behaviour from sailors was limited to their swearing and hard living. Sailors were by and large very conservative and supported the ridged, hierarchy of ship life as much as most officers did. The idea that if a sailor got whipped for misconduct, the rest of his comrades would be outraged and despise the punishment is false - if a sailor got whipped they most often deserved it and a crew thus didn't give a fuck since those that received it were typically repeat offenders that had already alienated and pissed off the rest of the crew by disrupting the efficient conduct of the ship, which was of prime importance to them.

I'd also dispute that you can base how people talked centuries in the past by looking to the third world as if it's a time capsule when the people in those regions are just a modern as the West, just poor, having spent multiple generations living in shit all the while receiving bits of modern crap like Marxism to inflame their disposition.

On top of that, to try and compare Third Worlders in places like Africa to people in a fantasy Medieval world is all the worse. Places like Northern Europe didn't suddenly have their stoic, hardworking and suffering taciturn nature that highly emphasized self-discipline suddenly spring out of the Protestant Reformation. That has things backwards and has no equivalent outside the modern world anymore, because even those dealing with a high degree of privation in hard climates, like Eskimos, do so with modern technology as well as whatever modern mindset they've picked up.

My gut says the average person centuries back was much more like the sailors of their time, only without the transient side of the life being a part of it, being born and dying largely in one region and having dealt with hardship and chaos enough to even more conservative than sailors in that they wouldn't want to make things shittier for themselves than they already were by having profanity around them.

I couldn't even say that people like the Sodbusters were a glimpse of what things were like back then, in that they were still effected by the Enlightenment and Protestantism and such and so are as bad an example as pointing to modern Africans even if they lived in similar abject poverty.

If you are not laying about where you live (and I am 99% sure you are) then you can be on topic and imagine that favela but without any of the modern stuff and imagine how people would act and talk.

Are you for real?

Do you honestly think that people act like edgy cuntish 13 year olds when everyone is armed to the teeth and have got nothing to lose but, oh, their own lives?

You're clearly beyond sheltered to think the way that you do.

Whatever shithole you live in isn't a 'tiny stretch' from being a post apocalyptic wasteland. Much less the particular neighborhood your silly self was likely raised in.

And, by the way, neither is this game's setting.

I've been strong armed by drug kingpins and rogue officers both. Nobody talks the way that you think that they do. Everyone is stepping on eggshells at all times, especially as they impose themselves.

Seriously, you're so full of shit even Trump wants to drain this swamp.

Exactly. Things like dueling an the essential feuding that resulted in that being an acceptable solution to people's problems made people think twice before they decided to go insulting people.

Today in places like the Third World we have this odd chaotic mix from trying to reform and Westernize places that broke those customs down without removing the impulse in people to naturally resort to violence when disagreements broke out, something which is a fairly recent recent thing even in the West where its less than 200 years old, and as encapsulated in the folk lore nature of the Western genre and how it declined and died, it's less than that.
 
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fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Messages
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I haven't seen rpg (or don't remember) where you could be an aggressive and profane asshole. I would love to see a "Fuck off! (attack)" option. There is a lot of times why i can't just kill all those assclowns. Most games are very timid when it comes to writing an asshole with a hearth of gold covered in shit. Most times is eater idiotically evil or a do-gooder.
 

Lurker47

Savant
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
721
Location
Texas
That is a problem of rich countries that have it good. People that grow up there and spend their life there don't have a clue how real people in their less rich fantasy or futuristic setting think or work.
On top of that the political correctness movement of the past years that turned into SJW movement of recent years makes it worse.
Even if they wanted they could not implement misogyny into conversations of 90% of males in those settings. It would be historically correct and correct in how people acted in the past in such situations but they are not allowed to do stuff like that. Or swearing, average people swear a lot in their casual conversations in cultures that are not led by SJW or Political Correctness movements.

Underrail had it much closer to how it would be with many NPCs just telling you to fuck off or mind your own business. But it also could not go all the way and hope to sell the game to Western market.

EDIT: Infinitron, you can citation needed on all my posts but I got no clue what you actually want. Are you a girl and expect me to read your mind like most girls expect?

You are such a clueless fucking retard with your fake tough guy attitude trying to validate your political leanings on topics you have no idea of. Half the garbage you speak is outright false, the other half is baseless assumptions.
Oh I see I have touched a sensitive point in some of the Codex western countries members.

How about instead of slinging shit you actually put arguments to support your shitposting. I at least put in some effort to try to explain why I think so.

EDIT: And I would love to hear these political leanings of mine. Please do tell me about me.
All you've said are assertions, there is no "argument" here to be had. This entire thread is silly because of that, lol.
 

Lurker47

Savant
Joined
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Messages
721
Location
Texas
I haven't seen rpg (or don't remember) where you could be an aggressive and profane asshole. I would love to see a "Fuck off! (attack)" option.
Almost every RPG I've ever played has had an option like this. What are you on about, dude? :retarded:
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,889
That is a problem of rich countries that have it good. People that grow up there and spend their life there don't have a clue how real people in their less rich fantasy or futuristic setting think or work.
On top of that the political correctness movement of the past years that turned into SJW movement of recent years makes it worse.
Even if they wanted they could not implement misogyny into conversations of 90% of males in those settings. It would be historically correct and correct in how people acted in the past in such situations but they are not allowed to do stuff like that. Or swearing, average people swear a lot in their casual conversations in cultures that are not led by SJW or Political Correctness movements.

Underrail had it much closer to how it would be with many NPCs just telling you to fuck off or mind your own business. But it also could not go all the way and hope to sell the game to Western market.

EDIT: Infinitron, you can citation needed on all my posts but I got no clue what you actually want. Are you a girl and expect me to read your mind like most girls expect?

You are such a clueless fucking retard with your fake tough guy attitude trying to validate your political leanings on topics you have no idea of. Half the garbage you speak is outright false, the other half is baseless assumptions.
Oh I see I have touched a sensitive point in some of the Codex western countries members.

How about instead of slinging shit you actually put arguments to support your shitposting. I at least put in some effort to try to explain why I think so.

EDIT: And I would love to hear these political leanings of mine. Please do tell me about me.
All you've said are assertions, there is no "argument" here to be had. This entire thread is silly because of that, lol.
Of course I shared my opinion based on my life experiences that I explained.
Others came in and instead of "I don't agree because x and y" just started insulting. Of course that is a Codex way and I even expected that. You can say I even bated it a bit since I expect nobody likes a random internet person insulting their country and life.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
No you kept repeating "I am right, you are wrong" posts. Last one that mentioned sources of "you are right" but gave none and this one are first posts from you that actually are more than that.
So lets get to this post of yours.
I said USA developers refuse to use more realistic talk for average people that is also based on swearing more often. I provided examples of games that were not that afraid. I also even mentioned some USA games (like PST or Fallout) that had more of realistic conversations with average NPCs (although still not good enough). Everyone is too nice in all these games. They are not nice for example in Underrail.
I never mentioned Game of Thrones as a source for anything so I don't have a clue why are you bringing that up.

Next I never said I am tough, I said I lived my whole life in this shitty poor country surrounded by people that don't live in luxury and as such act differently than those that live in luxury and that I have spent some time in a Western country and I have seen how they act and think about the world. I also know there are way shittier countries and places to live than my own and that in medieval times it was even worse.
Then when I compare games made in USA/Canada to those made outside it is clear they are different because people think differently and look at the world differently.

Of course games don't need to simulate reality. But that does not mean that is better. I talked about why they don't even try in the west.
And of course this whole point is about personal preference. I prefer RPGs that do try to simulate reality in this way, where people you meet are not nice people that are just waiting for you. Fallout did this in more ways than just use of words, if you said a wrong thing you lost access to that NPCs and quests completely.
Underrail has NPCs talk to you like they don't care about you because they don't and they should not. You are not a chosen one and don't have a glowing sign that says "talk to me, I am super important". At best when they are nicer to you, they just want to use you.

My 21st century boy talk was just one example. The whole point I presented in upper two paragraphs. 21st century boy talk (actually a correct term would be 20th century boy talk because that is when most of it happened) is more in place in a post apo setting where people are stabbing each other for their boots and most girls are just walking rape victims (unless they can defend themselves or got protectors). I am certain a group of raiders don't talk about the nice weather or quote Nietzsche.
And those same God fearing people of medieval times also had little regard for human life, especially females (raping everyone you could during war was basically a norm then). You don't see that shown in games. USA/Canada developers ignore what they want and only put what political correctness/SJW movement allows. So your point about this is moot.

EDIT: Now that you mentioned GoT, I think it has shown the shitty position of women better than any RPG I played. Why? Because people there are not artificially nice to each other.

He mentioned GoT because it's at the forefront of the mentality your pushing that things were an unrelenting nightmare of brutality. The fact people dealt with that to an extent few in the modern world could comprehend is precisely the reason why people emphasized politeness in eras between the Middle Ages and now.

SO much of the problem with your perspective, (and GoTs) is thinking that time back then was like today, only worse, especially when it came to war and looking on war back then through the lens of warfare today, especially the ace of modern warfare. Even when a army marched through a region raping and pillaging they didn't do ceaselessly, in that war then was start and stop as leaders struggled to scrape together the money and men to launch a campaign with that could take years, the very reason why wars like the Hundred Years' War of the Thirty Wars took so long.

Even then much of the privation of war came from indirect causes, not armies and their activity but the impact war had societies that had such trouble being able to wage it where crops were requisitioned to allow an army keep going, the disruption of trade and commerce and how it threw the economy out of whack, etc.

You don't see that shown in games. USA/Canada developers ignore what they want and only put what political correctness/SJW movement allows. So your point about this is moot.

Maybe they don't want to deal with that and their goal in developing a game isn't to develop it as realistically as possible.

Again, you're setting developers to fail because they don't meet your idea of what a setting should be about. The vast majority of people that make games go into them with a rough idea of what they want to put into the game setting and storywise (if they even bother at all as many older ones did with story being an afterthought) and want to focus on just those things, if only to avoid dealing with all the tedious programming of things they didn't want to do in the first place.

They want to focus on the central themes, no go off on tangents and get distracted from that that would damage the narrative.

Same goes for books and movies, and in the examples brought up, like Game of Thrones and The Witcher, seeing things painted in such dire, shitty terms is central to the core themes of the work and what they want to present to the player/audience.

With that in mind, presenting farmers going about their day peaceably without anything terrible happening to them isn't something you'd expect to see on GoT and rightfully so. It's no wonder that you only get to see farmers and such after the first season when bad things are happening to them, like the farmer Arya and the Hound ran across and their conversation about nihilism as he bled to death.

EDIT: Now that you mentioned GoT, I think it has shown the shitty position of women better than any RPG I played. Why? Because people there are not artificially nice to each other.

Have you been following the last season of GoT? It's made a complete 180 into modern feminist power fantasy with the female cast members running things to the point that all the brutality of the previous seasons could be looked on thematically as "Oh, after all that crap, see how wonderful things are now that women are running things and not men?".

You can dismiss that as the show and it's writers breaking out on their own after they ran out of Martin's base materiel (which is why the writing quality took a nsoe dive), but it in and of itself isn't inconsistent with what Martin was already pushing in his books and the big sneer towards the Middle Ages and the pre-Modern world in general.

Regardless, whatever point you're trying to discuss in this thread is being fatally undermined with their adolescent try-hard sentiment that infects every post you're making.

Take a break from this thread and cool off, your obstinance is undermining the point you're trying to make.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
11,079
giphy.gif



Another thread on its way to immortality at the most prestigious subforum of the codex ... :salute:
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Messages
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Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
OP is being an idiot. I agree heartily with whoever said that dark age/medieval swearing would be almost unrecognizable to us because it was all very religious. e.g. a lot of what we consider profanity today are just fairly innocuous words from old English: fuck, shit, cunt, cock—these meant the same things they do now but they were not considered dirty or profane language. And they only became profanity in middle and modern English because they were class markers: the upper classes used more Latinate words from Norman French. Poor people fuck, rich people fornicate.

It’s also ridiculous to equate densely populated, poverty stricken urban areas from the modern world with anything from the Middle Ages or the dark ages. Hardly anyone lived in cities back then and to the extent that there were, say, violent gangs in cities those gangs were composed of young rich men with too much time on their hands. For example in late medieval early renaissance Rome, the street violence was mainly conducted by aristocratic families like the Colonna, Orsini, Vitelli and Pamphili, along with their hirelings.

Mass unemployment was not really a thing—you’d be arrested for vagrancy and expelled from the city if you had no work, or conscripted into someone’s army or press ganged into sailing near the Atlantic, or rowing a galley in the Mediterranean. Some people might turn to banditry, but usually only on a large scale in times of famine (and war often led to famine by taking bodies out of the fields). But bandits rarely lasted very long because the local nobles jealously guarded their protection rackets.

SWEARING IN GAMES: this has nothing to do with political correctness. For fuck’s sake, games clean up their language because until the rise of steam, family friendly stores like Walmart and Target were major gaming retailers (fifteen years ago they sold 25% of all video games in America). Walmart made a habit of refusing to sell games with lots of sex or bad language. This was very much a Christian conservative thing, which is the exact opposite of the social justice crowd. See here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/issues/issue_40/241-Wal-Mart-Rules

To quote a great John Waters movie: family is just a dirty word for censorship.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,889
No you kept repeating "I am right, you are wrong" posts. Last one that mentioned sources of "you are right" but gave none and this one are first posts from you that actually are more than that.
So lets get to this post of yours.
I said USA developers refuse to use more realistic talk for average people that is also based on swearing more often. I provided examples of games that were not that afraid. I also even mentioned some USA games (like PST or Fallout) that had more of realistic conversations with average NPCs (although still not good enough). Everyone is too nice in all these games. They are not nice for example in Underrail.
I never mentioned Game of Thrones as a source for anything so I don't have a clue why are you bringing that up.

Next I never said I am tough, I said I lived my whole life in this shitty poor country surrounded by people that don't live in luxury and as such act differently than those that live in luxury and that I have spent some time in a Western country and I have seen how they act and think about the world. I also know there are way shittier countries and places to live than my own and that in medieval times it was even worse.
Then when I compare games made in USA/Canada to those made outside it is clear they are different because people think differently and look at the world differently.

Of course games don't need to simulate reality. But that does not mean that is better. I talked about why they don't even try in the west.
And of course this whole point is about personal preference. I prefer RPGs that do try to simulate reality in this way, where people you meet are not nice people that are just waiting for you. Fallout did this in more ways than just use of words, if you said a wrong thing you lost access to that NPCs and quests completely.
Underrail has NPCs talk to you like they don't care about you because they don't and they should not. You are not a chosen one and don't have a glowing sign that says "talk to me, I am super important". At best when they are nicer to you, they just want to use you.

My 21st century boy talk was just one example. The whole point I presented in upper two paragraphs. 21st century boy talk (actually a correct term would be 20th century boy talk because that is when most of it happened) is more in place in a post apo setting where people are stabbing each other for their boots and most girls are just walking rape victims (unless they can defend themselves or got protectors). I am certain a group of raiders don't talk about the nice weather or quote Nietzsche.
And those same God fearing people of medieval times also had little regard for human life, especially females (raping everyone you could during war was basically a norm then). You don't see that shown in games. USA/Canada developers ignore what they want and only put what political correctness/SJW movement allows. So your point about this is moot.

EDIT: Now that you mentioned GoT, I think it has shown the shitty position of women better than any RPG I played. Why? Because people there are not artificially nice to each other.

He mentioned GoT because it's at the forefront of the mentality your pushing that things were an unrelenting nightmare of brutality. The fact people dealt with that to an extent few in the modern world could comprehend is precisely the reason why people emphasized politeness in eras between the Middle Ages and now.

SO much of the problem with your perspective, (and GoTs) is thinking that time back then was like today, only worse, especially when it came to war and looking on war back then through the lens of warfare today, especially the ace of modern warfare. Even when a army marched through a region raping and pillaging they didn't do ceaselessly, in that war then was start and stop as leaders struggled to scrape together the money and men to launch a campaign with that could take years, the very reason why wars like the Hundred Years' War of the Thirty Wars took so long.

Even then much of the privation of war came from indirect causes, not armies and their activity but the impact war had societies that had such trouble being able to wage it where crops were requisitioned to allow an army keep going, the disruption of trade and commerce and how it threw the economy out of whack, etc.
This is all good. Now games need to start showing this stuff. You just gave more ammo for the attack on USA developers by showing more stuff they ignore.
As for GoT, GoT happens during war, Martin said he was inspired by real life events when writing GoT books and that those were often even worse than what GoT shows. So I am not sure what GoT (books) have shown that is so wrong. Also GoT books follow specific characters that are always in the middle of important happenings, of course they are going to be witness to mostly shitty stuff. This does not mean that whole world is shitty or more brutal than what real medieval ages were. Of course that during peace people mostly died to wounds gained from accidents, disease or lack of food. Or a wild animal attack or maybe some random raiders. Or just at childbirth. The low average life span was not there for 0 reason. USA games like to ignore all that shit and then promote 21st century values in games happening in times that had no idea of any of that stuff. I think actually trying to make things look as realistic as possible and then putting players in the middle of that will be a much more remarkable experience for them. As I said before, I hope Vavra has the guts to do that.
You don't see that shown in games. USA/Canada developers ignore what they want and only put what political correctness/SJW movement allows. So your point about this is moot.

Maybe they don't want to deal with that and their goal in developing a game isn't to develop it as realistically as possible.

Again, you're setting developers to fail because they don't meet your idea of what a setting should be about. The vast majority of people that make games go into them with a rough idea of what they want to put into the game setting and storywise (if they even bother at all as many older ones did with story being an afterthought) and want to focus on just those things, if only to avoid dealing with all the tedious programming of things they didn't want to do in the first place.

They want to focus on the central themes, no go off on tangents and get distracted from that that would damage the narrative.

Same goes for books and movies, and in the examples brought up, like Game of Thrones and The Witcher, seeing things painted in such dire, shitty terms is central to the core themes of the work and what they want to present to the player/audience.

With that in mind, presenting farmers going about their day peaceably without anything terrible happening to them isn't something you'd expect to see on GoT and rightfully so. It's no wonder that you only get to see farmers and such after the first season when bad things are happening to them, like the farmer Arya and the Hound ran across and their conversation about nihilism as he bled to death.
I don't understand this argument. Why should I care what developers want to do? I care what game I want to play. I care that games I play are as good as possible.
Should we use this excuse for any shitty design in any game? Fallout 4 had always same 4 dialogue options because developers didn't want to deal with writing more.. what about shitty combat in game X? Devs didn't want to deal with implementing more animations or more interesting weapons or something?

GoT follows characters that are in the middle of trouble or go out of their way to find it. And you don't get lengthy parts of a book about farmers tending their fields because that is assumed as normal and we are told about things that are not normal.
EDIT: Now that you mentioned GoT, I think it has shown the shitty position of women better than any RPG I played. Why? Because people there are not artificially nice to each other.

Have you been following the last season of GoT? It's made a complete 180 into modern feminist power fantasy with the female cast members running things to the point that all the brutality of the previous seasons could be looked on thematically as "Oh, after all that crap, see how wonderful things are now that women are running things and not men?".

You can dismiss that as the show and it's writers breaking out on their own after they ran out of Martin's base materiel (which is why the writing quality took a nsoe dive), but it in and of itself isn't inconsistent with what Martin was already pushing in his books and the big sneer towards the Middle Ages and the pre-Modern world in general.

Regardless, whatever point you're trying to discuss in this thread is being fatally undermined with their adolescent try-hard sentiment that infects every post you're making.

Take a break from this thread and cool off, your obstinance is undermining the point you're trying to make.
Show has been shitty for a long time, I only care what happens in the books. Shit like what Arya did in last two seasons in the show I am sure we will not see in the book.
In the books women as a whole didn't accomplish shit. Those that did accomplish something are nobles of great houses or witches with incredible power. And none of them accomplished anything without going through great ordeals first or even do stuff that modern SJW would scream over (Cersei selling her body to every half important men she ran across so she can use them later is not the kind of Grill POWAH! that 21st century kids are promoting).
Only retards ignore those elements of the story while screaming "bloody murder" when only a few women in that whole world accomplished anything of note. I am still talking about a book. Maybe Martin kills this perception of mine in next two books but so far he has been pretty realistic about showing how it does not matter if you are girl, a midget or a retard, it more matters into which family you were born.

For example nobody in the books gathers a group of females that then go on to become superior to men in anything they try. Actually shit happens opposite, most of the girls in the books fail their reason checks and do hilariously stupid things due to letting their emotions decide their actions. They all pay for it in one way or another or those close to them pay for it.
 

d1nolore

Savant
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
662
I hate writing like "You're a fucking idiot" in games. Its cringey, lazy, and completely lacking imagination.

However writing like this:

You're more full of shit than the swamps of Rio during rain season.

Is creative and more fitting.

And as for the original post I hate when games try to throw in made up languages if its not very subtle. Especially without voice acting, 90% of the time it doesn't flow when you are reading it and gives me a headache.
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
Zounds, why dost thou cuckoopintel cavort badgerly betwixt thy trousers? Forsooth, thou weapon pricks as doth a beggar's earwig! Nay, I hafn't a clue whence went thou ballokes, but hast thou searched with a spectacle?
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
Martin said he was inspired by real life events when writing GoT books and that those were often even worse than what GoT shows.

He distilled many of the worst event in Medieval History and then had them all take place in one specific period of time, as if to give the impression that that is what happened en mass all the time.

USA games like to ignore all that shit and then promote 21st century values in games happening in times that had no idea of any of that stuff.

Or they want to focus on better things, thing they want to tackle in in their game in the same way any writer does not wishing to get bogged down and distracted by things ultimately irreverent to the story.

Like how you don't see low life expediencies, high infant mortality, filth and misery in the Lord of the Rings. Part of that is that Tolkien wanted to focus on the Ring and the large cosmological conflict and the other part is to make more contrast when it came to other themes, like how idyllic the Shire and how naive the Hobbits that stand in contrast to the rest of the world how their entire society rests on the shoulders of giants that have protected them for centuries from evils unimaginable all the while they were entirely sheltered from it due to their parochial ignorance.

Why should I care what developers want to do? I care what game I want to play. I care that games I play are as good as possible.

Because you're idea of what qualifies as a good game seems to be "ultra historical, completely ground in fact showing all the nastiness of centuries past if it doesn't have this it's agenda driven shit pushing 21st century values" or at least that's what all your posts in this thread appear to be harping on about.

There's a place for that kind of thing, it doesn't have to be in every game, and if it isn't, it isn't because of some PC/SJW agenda being pushed by the developers.

If that isn't the case, please correct me and try to rein in this butt hurt anger you have over things like this, because it's masking the rest of what you want to talk about.

Should we use this excuse for any shitty design in any game? Fallout 4 had always same 4 dialogue options because developers didn't want to deal with writing more.

There's developers not trying hard enough (or at all like Beth) and then there's devs having to restrict what C&C and dialogue they put in due to man power, time issues and not wanting to bog their game down in endless variant dialogue.

There are valid reasons for why most C&C typically boils down to three or so choices and why games even with heavy C&C all lead to the same ending area instead of exponentially growing paths out with areas and endings for each choice, it's simple too much work for what is gained and may even undermine the thematic elements of the game through sheer dilution.

And you don't get lengthy parts of a book about farmers tending their fields because that is assumed as normal and we are told about things that are not normal.

If you can acknowledge that in a book/series like GoT, why do you seem unable to do so when it comes to games, especially American made ones?

ANd yes, I know you're going to say they're lazy, or agenda driven and don't want to paint things contrary to what they want believe, but maybe simply have a massive, raging bias against Western devs and American ones above all else and refuse to give them as much slack as you'd give others?
 

ArchAngel

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Messages
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Are you are really comparing a linear story telling experience of a fantasy book with RPGs?! Martin's books are already often called too long and filled with less important or boring stuff (counting food supplies in Night Watch; overly long descriptions of food during banquets and so on), can you imagine if it went on about all the details. Even the parts of Book 4 where we travel with Brianne and see how the war has ravaged the little people in that realm people called "boring, bad and such" and asked for more of the war, noble backstabbings and magic.
Come on, don't be dense.

In a proper RPG you got enough place and time to show both. But 90% of them don't show the bad stuff, mostly ones made in USA/Canada. That is a fact. The reasons why are not. I am claiming players are missing out because of that.
Kyl Von Kull had a great point (that I didn't know about) that places that sold games in the past would not permit a more realistic and brutal setting in the games. But even after that we still don't see much difference.
At best things like swearing are made a joke of like that video from DAI and people are still all nice to you all the time (unless they are a random bandit or always evil creatures like Orcs or Demons). Even in Tyranny, a game about being a bad guy barely anyone is even trying. And a lot of people said they don't want to play even that version, it is pretty clear that Western market is not ready to play a game that will take them out of their happy place, their safe space. USA/Canada devs don't care to change that.
 

PEACH

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
285
I haven't seen rpg (or don't remember) where you could be an aggressive and profane asshole. I would love to see a "Fuck off! (attack)" option. There is a lot of times why i can't just kill all those assclowns. Most games are very timid when it comes to writing an asshole with a hearth of gold covered in shit. Most times is eater idiotically evil or a do-gooder.

Dungeon Rats (and maybe AoD I can't recall) has options/dialogue along these lines.

Do you honestly think that people act like edgy cuntish 13 year olds when everyone is armed to the teeth and have got nothing to lose but, oh, their own lives? [...]

I've been strong armed by drug kingpins and rogue officers both. Nobody talks the way that you think that they do. Everyone is stepping on eggshells at all times, especially as they impose themselves.

I agree with this post completely but in my experience (in first world ghettos which are admittedly much more benign) the average dude who's gonna rob you here tends to be a lot more careless which I imagine would extend to low level / disorganized street thugs in a hypothetical post-apoc scenario. Both times I was held up / threatened at knife/gunpoint both people went straight for full on intimidation / loud showmanship. Of course, this is liable to get you killed if you're fucking with the wrong people but that has never stopped anyone from making that mistake in the past.

I think it'd be retarded to have every character call you a faggot and brandish weapons like they're posing for rap album art because that has ramifications that would catch up pretty quickly, but it'd make sense for it to crop up in lower security areas / vulnerable situations where even a small fish type thug could have undue confidence. On the other hand, someone more acclimated and intelligent or who is in a more oppressive situation would likely play it safe and thoughtful, keen on ensuring they don't draw attention they don't want / put themselves in a situation they know could get them killed because they're more innately accustomed to the danger and razor thin line between making it home and having their head cracked for mouthing off.

Edit: In a game like Fallout or Underrail I think both scenarios are well-represented and the use of language and demeanor to differentiate the two would be fitting. I'm sure you could get away with being a big mouthed shit in Shady Sands, for instance, but try it in New Reno and you'd probably end up in barrel pretty quick.
 
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fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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I haven't seen rpg (or don't remember) where you could be an aggressive and profane asshole. I would love to see a "Fuck off! (attack)" option.
Almost every RPG I've ever played has had an option like this. What are you on about, dude? :retarded:
I am not talking about dialogue option to attack somebody. I am talking about profane disregard for the annoying asshole that drivels his plan or something. Good example that comes to mind is the DA:I the dlc where they call you to be judged. Instead of just saying fuck of faggots i am divine saviour that the people worship and have an army,you whine and plea like some cuck. Why can't i be a nice tyrant and mount their skinned skulls on the wall?!
 

Sacibengala

Prophet
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
1,098
I live in medieval post apocalyptic Brazil and I do not swear a lot. Just the basics though. But I am from the country, not the mythic Island.
 

ArchAngel

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Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,889
I haven't seen rpg (or don't remember) where you could be an aggressive and profane asshole. I would love to see a "Fuck off! (attack)" option.
Almost every RPG I've ever played has had an option like this. What are you on about, dude? :retarded:
I am not talking about dialogue option to attack somebody. I am talking about profane disregard for the annoying asshole that drivels his plan or something. Good example that comes to mind is the DA:I the dlc where they call you to be judged. Instead of just saying fuck of faggots i am divine saviour that the people worship and have an army,you whine and plea like some cuck. Why can't i be a nice tyrant and mount their skinned skulls on the wall?!
In Tyranny at one point one of the powerful beings tries to judge you. You can just say that you don't recognize the power of this court and fight him and his guys immediately.
 
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Messages
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I talk like a Bioware main character, I come into people's lives, ask them for quests and then say "I should go".

Just kidding I never leave my basement.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
People around me don't swear all the time, but that's because I don't surround myself with uneducated morons. Excessive swearing in games/movies/books is incredibly obnoxious and I immediately know the writer isn't trying at all.

Well, fuck you and the people around you.
How's that for education?

There's a difference between excessive swearing and using it where appropriate. Similarly there is a difference between avoiding it because of political correctness and avoiding it where appropriate.

So, the people you surround yourself with don't really matter in this discussion. Your life experience does not actually serve as basis for... well, anything.
Nobody said, durrr the people around Lacrymas swear a lot therefore we must have a lot of swearing.

Furthermore, you're not a fucking savant if you refrain from swearing. You're just a sheep, following whatever moral code is in effect where you live. And if you ever refrained from swearing because you thought you'd sound uneducated, then you are moron. Period. You refrain from swearing where it's inappropriate not to show off how educated you are.

Similarly to ArchAngel, I lived in a poor country and then in several western ones and I've seen how in some of them there is this air of pompousness and swearing is looked down upon for no other reason than pure snottiness.

In short, fuck those losers and fuck you.
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
Similarly to ArchAngel, I lived in a poor country and then in several western ones and I've seen how in some of them there is this air of pompousness and swearing is looked down upon for no other reason than pure snottiness.
You're both missing the point.

Its not that 'swearing' is looked down upon. Its that its not the default. That's why its called swearing. People don't go around swearing like 13 year olds just because they are poor. They won't take shit from you. That's when they'll tell you to fuck off. That's also why they don't act like cunts all the time.
 
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FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
I don't know how using it where appropriate equates to "go around swearing like 13 year olds"? Who asked for that?
What was asked was to not avoid because of dumbfuck reasons like "education" and political correctness.
 

Delterius

Arcane
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Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Who asked for that?

Have you read the thread? Because the idea was that realism in 'dark ages' and 'post apoc' is measured by how much people swear. The reference being that someone, somewhere, lives in a shithole.

The idea that people who have it bad spew profanity for its own sake is a caricature of speech. It is bullshit. People say 'fuck' all the time in New York. Everything and everyone is a 'cunt' in Ireland. You'll be hard pressed to convince me the poorest New Yorker is in the shitter, considering the median income of the Bronx is higher than mine. Hell, in Rio uber drivers are sometimes accosted by traffickers for listening to profane songs on their radio. We may sell ELEX around these parts but this be a family favela, ya hear?

This thread is about stereotypes that can be used for dramatic purposes. Having characters swear could serve to add more personality to what was a pretty dry and boring story in PoE1. And yet I look to other paragons of writing worshipped around here and I don't see much of that.

MotB? VtmB? Nothing of the sort. Fat Larry says fuck, maybe once. That's his character. But not having swear word spam in a High Fantasy setting isn't in denial of 'normal speech'. Normal people aren't stereotypes. To then argue that this is a political correctness agenda lead by hippies on the american coast who don't know the real slav squatting nature of humanity isn't just a slippery slope. Its a free fall into an abyss that transports you to a torrent of bullshit that belies the biblical Deluge.
 

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