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MMOs are the evident future of videogaming, everything else is a step back

Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
oh yes like with MOBA and mmorpg right?

what's wrong with mmos? Personally i am for progress as fundamental axiom. I despise conservatorism. MMo's are the evident future of videogaming. Everything else is a step back. They're real time, complete fictional life simulations, and that means i must be able to interact in a complete way with the environment, so combining point&click verbs with combat, rpg char progression, everything. It's the future, all genres combined, finally, for the final utopia of interactivity.

Garriott invented crpgs, ultima 7 is a game that wants to be a mmo, simple as that. Ultima Online's only fault was that it was too precocious. Virtual worlds are an horizon, life in a fictional world, transferring of minds... but let's not go too far or i'll say that videogaming is an obsolete term for something biblical!

So regarding this planescape. Who cares, cause it is the same old garbage that's not a simulation.
 
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Kitchen Utensil

Guest
oh yes like with MOBA and mmorpg right?

what's wrong with mmos? Personally i am for progress as fundamental axiom. I despise conservatorism. MMo's are the evident future of videogaming. Everything else is a step back. They're real time, complete fictional life simulations, and that means i must be able to interact in a complete way with the environment, so combining point&click verbs with combat, rpg char progression, everything. It's the future, all genres combined, finally, for the final utopia of interactivity.

Garriott invented crpgs, ultima 7 is a game that wants to be a mmo, simple as that. Ultima Online's only fault was that it was too precocious. Virtual worlds are an horizon, life in a fictional world, transferring of minds... but let's not go too far or i'll say that videogaming is an obsolete term for something biblical!

So regarding this planescape. Who cares, cause it is the same old garbage that's not a simulation.

Something is wrong with you. I suggest hospitalisation.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
oh yes like with MOBA and mmorpg right?

what's wrong with mmos? Personally i am for progress as fundamental axiom. I despise conservatorism. MMo's are the evident future of videogaming. Everything else is a step back. They're real time, complete fictional life simulations, and that means i must be able to interact in a complete way with the environment, so combining point&click verbs with combat, rpg char progression, everything. It's the future, all genres combined, finally, for the final utopia of interactivity.

Garriott invented crpgs, ultima 7 is a game that wants to be a mmo, simple as that. Ultima Online's only fault was that it was too precocious. Virtual worlds are an horizon, life in a fictional world, transferring of minds... but let's not go too far or i'll say that videogaming is an obsolete term for something biblical!

So regarding this planescape. Who cares, cause it is the same old garbage that's not a simulation.

Something is wrong with you. I suggest hospitalisation.

No It isn't. I am an old C64 and amiga grunt. I know History. And although and because i loved most videogame classics, i think virtuality is the future. I am a visionary, but non-millionaire, atm.

Videogames are to become immersive sims, as Warren Spector called 'em, more complete products. Also, they have to become virtual and persistant.

That's it, that's what a true videogames lover can ever wish for them. Everything else is a waste of time.

But, sure, go ahead and talk about these little backed by players games. Just, don't speak ill of the MMO genre, cause it's not all WoW and themepark.
 
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Kitchen Utensil

Guest
oh yes like with MOBA and mmorpg right?

what's wrong with mmos? Personally i am for progress as fundamental axiom. I despise conservatorism. MMo's are the evident future of videogaming. Everything else is a step back. They're real time, complete fictional life simulations, and that means i must be able to interact in a complete way with the environment, so combining point&click verbs with combat, rpg char progression, everything. It's the future, all genres combined, finally, for the final utopia of interactivity.

Garriott invented crpgs, ultima 7 is a game that wants to be a mmo, simple as that. Ultima Online's only fault was that it was too precocious. Virtual worlds are an horizon, life in a fictional world, transferring of minds... but let's not go too far or i'll say that videogaming is an obsolete term for something biblical!

So regarding this planescape. Who cares, cause it is the same old garbage that's not a simulation.

Something is wrong with you. I suggest hospitalisation.
No It isn't. I am an old C64 grunt. And although and because i loved most videogame classics, i think virtuality is the future. I am a visionary, but non-millionaire, atm.

You're actually being serious, aren't you?
If so, it must be worse than I thought.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
oh yes like with MOBA and mmorpg right?

what's wrong with mmos? Personally i am for progress as fundamental axiom. I despise conservatorism. MMo's are the evident future of videogaming. Everything else is a step back. They're real time, complete fictional life simulations, and that means i must be able to interact in a complete way with the environment, so combining point&click verbs with combat, rpg char progression, everything. It's the future, all genres combined, finally, for the final utopia of interactivity.

Garriott invented crpgs, ultima 7 is a game that wants to be a mmo, simple as that. Ultima Online's only fault was that it was too precocious. Virtual worlds are an horizon, life in a fictional world, transferring of minds... but let's not go too far or i'll say that videogaming is an obsolete term for something biblical!

So regarding this planescape. Who cares, cause it is the same old garbage that's not a simulation.

Something is wrong with you. I suggest hospitalisation.
No It isn't. I am an old C64 grunt. And although and because i loved most videogame classics, i think virtuality is the future. I am a visionary, but non-millionaire, atm.

You're actually being serious, aren't you?
If so, it must be worse than I thought.

bla bla, try to motivate, big mouth or don't waste my time.
 
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Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
No It isn't. I am an old C64 and amiga grunt. I know History. And although and because i loved most videogame classics, i think virtuality is the future.
Videogames are to become immersive sims, as Warren Spector called 'em, more complete products. Also, they have to become virtual and persistant.
That's it, that's what a true videogames lover can ever wish for them. Everything else is a waste of time.
I'm also an old Atari 2600, Atari 800XE, ZX Spectrum, C Plus/4, Atari 520ST, C64, Amgia 500 grunt and i also know the history. But i think that your view is a bit restricted. Games will conquer the VR domain, but VR will co-exist with the other form of games, because gamerosity remains in every generation towards games like Side-scroller. And yes games like Side-scroller will be niche games compared to the VR market.
 
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Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
I'm also an old Atari 2600, Atari 800XE, Spectrum, C Plus/4, Atari ST, C64, Amgia 500 grunt and i also know the history. But i think that your view is a bit restricted. Games will conquer the VR domain, but VR will co-exist with the other form of games, because gamerosity remains in every generation towards games like Side-scroller. And yes games like Side-scroller will be niche games compared to the VR market.

Ok, but VR is just a pretty interface, i'm talking about simulating a universe like Star Citizen, unscrewing every last nail and wire of your ship. I'm saying it will probably be the only game worth playing since like Ultima and Deus Ex, which was the last immersive sim.

So you're saying i'm restricted. This is the RPGCODEX, you guys seem to have LOST touch with sincere hardcore extremism. You seem to have lost yourselves in conservatorism and nostalgia and are happy when they make a baldur's gate look-alike that has some tactics and dialogue, like the prospect for new Planescape crap

Thing is, you stopped asking for complexity, and settled for mediocrity. And on top of all that, you even criticize MMO's? C'mon

So your point is that there's not only complex games and the future of interactivity, but we also must like side-scrollers. So now this site accepts console shooters and tekken too, maybe
 
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Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
I'm also an old Atari 2600, Atari 800XE, Spectrum, C Plus/4, Atari ST, C64, Amgia 500 grunt and i also know the history. But i think that your view is a bit restricted. Games will conquer the VR domain, but VR will co-exist with the other form of games, because gamerosity remains in every generation towards games like Side-scroller. And yes games like Side-scroller will be niche games compared to the VR market.

Ok, but VR is just a pretty interface, i'm talking about simulating a universe like Star Citizen, unscrewing every last nail and wire of your ship. I'm saying it will probably be the only game worth playing since like Ultima and Deus Ex, which was the last immersive sim.
So you're saying i'm restricted. This is the RPGCODEX, you guys seem to have LOST touch with sincere hardcore extremism. You seem to have lost yourselves in conservatorism and nostalgia and are happy when they make a baldur's gate look-alike that has some tactics and dialogue.
Thing is, you stopped asking for complexity, and settled for mediocrity. And on top of all that, you even criticize MMO's? C'mon
VR is not just a pretty interface, it is a paradigm which opens up its own axioms and has its own prerequisites. And that it is why other games will survive even under a VR dictated world. I don't play Star Citizen so i cannot make a judgment about it or upon it.
The RPGCODEX is mostly for a specific kind of genre of RPGS, so yes this is a kind of self-restrictment and therefore it omits Moo's. I cannot speak for other people, but i can tell you why i don't play MMOs: 1) I don't like the interference from other people / players in my gameplay. 2) I like to observe my induced changes in the environment and story of the game. 3) I like a complex story and by the law of common denominator this is not possible in an Moo. 4) I hate fetch quests and stupid grinding.
The Codex has restricting them self on the free will basis to represent a specific genre of games, while you think that just by the rise of one medium and other medium will die out. TV never killed the cinema or radio and the internet has not killed the TV, cinema and radio and all this things coexist simultaneously. It is only that most of this thnigs fight for our attention (time ressource). If i or my wife cooks we cannot watch TV or go to a cinema or surf on the internet, but we can listen to radio or an audio book.

Btw. For people saying that there was no Atari 800XE : in Germany the 65XE was sold as 800XE in 1985.
 
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Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm also an old Atari 2600, Atari 800XE, Spectrum, C Plus/4, Atari ST, C64, Amgia 500 grunt and i also know the history. But i think that your view is a bit restricted. Games will conquer the VR domain, but VR will co-exist with the other form of games, because gamerosity remains in every generation towards games like Side-scroller. And yes games like Side-scroller will be niche games compared to the VR market.

Ok, but VR is just a pretty interface, i'm talking about simulating a universe like Star Citizen, unscrewing every last nail and wire of your ship. I'm saying it will probably be the only game worth playing since like Ultima and Deus Ex, which was the last immersive sim.

So you're saying i'm restricted. This is the RPGCODEX, you guys seem to have LOST touch with sincere hardcore extremism. You seem to have lost yourselves in conservatorism and nostalgia and are happy when they make a baldur's gate look-alike that has some tactics and dialogue, like the prospect for new Planescape crap

Thing is, you stopped asking for complexity, and settled for mediocrity. And on top of all that, you even criticize MMO's? C'mon

So your point is that there's not only complex games and the future of interactivity, but we also must like side-scrollers. So now this site accepts console shooters and tekken too, maybe

Questions for both of you forward looking yet grizzled veterans:
Q for Gylfi: What MMOs are actually worth playing? I’m not trying to be a dick; I don’t think I’d mind a multiplayer experience every now and then if it wasn’t stupid and grindy as fuck. Normally I’d write off the whole genre, but I’m feeling open minded today, so please enlighten me.

2. Darkzone: I got my hands on a free Oculus from work (thanks to some kind of Facebook swag bag my boss didn’t want). Are there any really good games on the oculus platform? I’d love to actually use it, but when I checked six odd months ago I wasn’t all that impressed with the available content. Was I wrong? I saw the latest Spiders title, Technomancer, was VR capable but all of their stuff often sounds like borderline shovelware.
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
2. Darkzone: I got my hands on a free Oculus from work (thanks to some kind of Facebook swag bag my boss didn’t want). Are there any really good games on the oculus platform? I’d love to actually use it, but when I checked six odd months ago I wasn’t all that impressed with the available content. Was I wrong? I saw the latest Spiders title, Technomancer, was VR capable but all of their stuff often sounds like borderline shovelware.
If you would really ask me if there are good games then i would state that i don't know, because i don't play games with VR. I work from times to times with VR and i have also tested specific game related possibilities on the Unreal Engine concerning the VR. Also to add is that i believe that the VR is only really good for first person of the God perspective games. It will take some time before the VR market will have good first person RT RPGs, but surely they will come sooner or later. Unreal Engine ( Epic ) is helping the VR world to a start by not taking any fees before the 5th million revenue, but this results also in the fact that there will be a lot of shovelware in the stores. Have you tried InXile's Mage's Tale? Or Kubold's Spell Fighter?
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
Questions for both of you forward looking yet grizzled veterans:
Q for Gylfi: What MMOs are actually worth playing? I’m not trying to be a dick; I don’t think I’d mind a multiplayer experience every now and then if it wasn’t stupid and grindy as fuck. Normally I’d write off the whole genre, but I’m feeling open minded today, so please enlighten me.

Afaik, Shroud of the avatar (R. Garriott) and Star Citizen (C. Roberts), which are not out yet.

Because they both aim to be persistant simulations, not games. So no rigid fed ex quests, no pre-written stories, just simulating fantasy and sci-fi life. Real (hopefully) freedom, unlike WoW clones, where you can't even drop an item on the ground, for god sake.

Curious, they were both from old Origin Systems! (we create worlds, remember?)

(edit. i just read that Shroud of the Avatar does have a pre-written campaign with quests. Too bad :( )
 
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Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
VR is not just a pretty interface, it is a paradigm which opens up its own axioms and has its own prerequisites. And that it is why other games will survive even under a VR dictated world. I don't play Star Citizen so i cannot make a judgment about it or upon it.
The RPGCODEX is mostly for a specific kind of genre of RPGS, so yes this is a kind of self-restrictment and therefore it omits Moo's. I cannot speak for other people, but i can tell you why i don't play MMOs: 1) I don't like the interference from other people / players in my gameplay. 2) I like to observe my induced changes in the environment and story of the game. 3) I like a complex story and by the law of common denominator this is not possible in an Moo. 4) I hate fetch quests and stupid grinding.
The Codex has restricting them self on the free will basis to represent a specific genre of games, while you think that just by the rise of one medium and other medium will die out. TV never killed the cinema or radio and the internet has not killed the TV, cinema and radio and all this things coexist simultaneously. It is only that most of this thnigs fight for our attention (time ressource). If i or my wife cooks we cannot watch TV or go to a cinema or surf on the internet, but we can listen to radio or an audio book.

Btw. For people saying that there was no Atari 800XE : in Germany the 65XE was sold as 800XE in 1985.

Well sure, if you put it in terms of machines and genres, they all live. But complexity isn't a genre or a medium. It's an imperative that crosses all genres.

You can have a medium and not have complexity, take consoles, and the same goes for a genre, you can have rpgs and again not make them complex. You can have VR and play Mario and just hop around, no complexity.

i'm just saying that we should expect it, in our games. So who cares about a possible new Planescape, or Pillars of whatever, wasteland, if they're all games with low complexity? And as far as i can see, there's nothing remotely interesting about the new Pillar game. I don't even see a difference with Diablo. The only good thing i heard is that this new Divinity game thingie tries to add content, "trying" to reach ultima7 in terms of interactable things. Good! At this pace, in 120 years we'll reach its compelxity.

IF you're saying that games with low complexity have the right to be there, you're validating action arcade games for the console numbnuts, even Bethesda trash, then.
 
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Father Foreskin

Learned
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
167
There has been no innovations in gaming since online multiplayer popularized by doom&quake. The so called "innovation" goes through 2 phases.

1. Flail with your hands like your retarded
2. Strap shit on your face

First you flailed with powerglove, then you strapped sega vr on your face. Then you flailed with Wii and strapped Oculus on your face. All oh this "innovation" was fucking sad in the 90's, its still equally shit in 2017.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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Nedderlent
action arcade games

Explain to me why those are bad. The good ones don't rot your brain and waste your life like MMO's do.
Sure I'd play UO for a couple hundred years if I was immortal. But guess what.
MMO's are gaming's opiates. Now consider gaming is an opiate all on it's own. Yes, they are That bad.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,928
Location
Nedderlent
There has been no innovations in gaming since online multiplayer popularized by doom&quake. The so called "innovation" goes through 2 phases.

1. Flail with your hands like your retarded
2. Strap shit on your face

First you flailed with powerglove, then you strapped sega vr on your face. Then you flailed with Wii and strapped Oculus on your face. All oh this "innovation" was fucking sad in the 90's, its still equally shit in 2017.
There we go. Although if people want to get plugged in on soy-paste, that's great. More world for the rest of us.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Joined
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Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
action arcade games

Explain to me why those are bad. The good ones don't rot your brain and waste your life like MMO's do.
Sure I'd play UO for a couple hundred years if I was immortal. But guess what.
MMO's are gaming's opiates. Now consider gaming is an opiate all on it's own. Yes, they are That bad.

That’s very unfair to opiates, which serve a useful purpose in addition to spreading joy, good cheer, and constipation. MMOs are more like crack: no real value, and the main thing it does is make you want more crack.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
There has been no innovations in gaming since online multiplayer popularized by doom&quake. The so called "innovation" goes through 2 phases.

1. Flail with your hands like your retarded
2. Strap shit on your face

First you flailed with powerglove, then you strapped sega vr on your face. Then you flailed with Wii and strapped Oculus on your face. All oh this "innovation" was fucking sad in the 90's, its still equally shit in 2017.

are you talking about me, cause i never talked about either innovation or VR. I mentioned virtuality, i don't mean virtual reality.

Ultima online was virtuality, but i want it in 3rd person, i don't even like first person. An immersive simulation, like Deus Ex, doesn't require VR or FPS, those are just graphical cosmetics. Complexity isn't in how you do things, first person, with a silly helmet, it's in WHAT you do.
 
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Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
action arcade games

Explain to me why those are bad. The good ones don't rot your brain and waste your life like MMO's do.
Sure I'd play UO for a couple hundred years if I was immortal. But guess what.
MMO's are gaming's opiates. Now consider gaming is an opiate all on it's own. Yes, they are That bad.

because they're not complex = repetitive = they desensitize.

(arguably) the same degree (complex=good, shallow=bad) has always been the obvious way to judge novels in books. Don't get me wrong, i am all for simple plots and stories, but the basis for a good book, even one that feels "simple" is a kind of complex thinking and structured writing. i will know, not only have i a degree in literature and im studying for a degree in codicology, i'm also an author.

Why, though? Because life is complex (a wondrous, beautiful complexity of nature), so if a product of art wants to mirror life (and that is its goal), it has to make you feel life's complexity.

So, i repeat, arcade games are bad. Console games are bad. Simulating life in fictional worlds (not necessarily online! Deus ex is not online but it feels alive) is the clear way to go, the only way to go, it's an imperative, because the next step in "creating worlds" of fiction, would be to really make them live. To be gods. And that easily explains what's miraculously good about MMO's, persistant, "breathing" worlds.... certainly not "opiates". This should explain why you're mistaken about them, because of a few common places you have about them.

You guys, in the end, talk about videogames considering them a pastime, so we must accept anything as long as it's fun. Some of you don't love videogames, apparently. That's what i mean with i know history. knowing history means knowing where videogames "have to go", that's love. That person also said he knows history, but that doesn't lead him to the future. Why? If you love your son or daughter you imagine all kinds of bright futures for 'em, i think?

Let me say, finally, that i'm horrified to read that some here don't despise console action games, toys for apes, giving a bad name to interactivity, holding it back from the place it has to go. If i owned the site, i'd first want to inspect and question the minds of new users, create a healthy kind of terror around here :)

what happened, not to elitism, but to extreme elitism?
 
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Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,287
MMO is based on human greed, nothing more. The aim of the MMO is to pit players against players, to see who has the biggest wallet in buying powerups and in-game items. It is a drug, except it also rewards anti-social behaviour like bullying and trolling. And this is without mentioning the social rot that it engenders when you have millions of people staring at a screen all day for fear of missing some event.

Any corporation or individual that pushes MMOs are nothing but drug dealers.

MMOs should be CRIMINALISED.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
285
MMO is based on human greed, nothing more. The aim of the MMO is to pit players against players, to see who has the biggest wallet in buying powerups and in-game items. It is a drug, except it also rewards anti-social behaviour like bullying and trolling. And this is without mentioning the social rot that it engenders when you have millions of people staring at a screen all day for fear of missing some event.

Any corporation or individual that pushes MMOs are nothing but drug dealers.

MMOs should be CRIMINALISED.

there's almost no need to reply to this. It's just misconceptions caused by a few bad games. Self explanatory, too, since Ultima Online had nothing of what you mention, nor did Star Wars Galaxies during its golden age, and they were both MMO's.

you would chop a whole tree for two rotten apples?
 
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Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
But, sure, go ahead and talk about these little backed by players games. Just, don't speak ill of the MMO genre, cause it's not all WoW and themepark.

the point was: more game of a certain genre are produced lower is the quality.

in 20-25 years of mmorpg mass production we only obtained 2-300 clones of everquest,wow and lineage 1
(and now we get also the mobile versions)

increase the numbers of game produced and you only obtain more trash that kill and hide the good one but we don’t get more good one.
 

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