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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

Jimmious

Arcane
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May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The sad part is that the game they are making has nothing to do with X-COM. There is no tactical combat or anything like that, it will be like a grand strategy Paradox title apparently.
Now as far as WOTC and LW2 go, WOTC already has a lot of stuff to do, there is no reason for additional layers of complexity imo.
 

Jimmious

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May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Mhm, yeah, that is the intention. However simultaneously they DO add layers of complexity which are also not documented. LW2 was pretty frustrating in that aspect. And I mean mainly the parts outside combat.
I didn't play a lot to be honest though, since for me LWs take too much time that I usually don't have.

In any case I find WotC to have already a lot of mechanics to juggle and I'm pretty sure the LW guys would add to them and I wouldn't like that - again. I would love some of the combat improvements you mention though
 
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Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
I just tried this a bit and GOOD LORD there is a lot of fucking talking in this game. Just shut the hell up and let me get on with things, ugh.
 

dukeofwhales

Cipher
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
423
it also calms right down after the early stages. but super annoying if you're trying to play a difficulty above your skill level necessitating restarts
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
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4,357
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Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
it also calms right down after the early stages. but super annoying if you're trying to play a difficulty above your skill level necessitating restarts
You should also install the following mods:
- Hush little chosen (if you play with War of the Chosen), to cut down on their banter
- Stop Wasting my time (it has a lot of other benefits)
 

Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
Thanks for those suggestions. The constant "hey commander, you should do this, you should do that" as well as the constant chattering from the chosen is really hurting the experience. It's like... shut the fuck up, I'm trying to concentrate. Bad, bad design decisions, especially since the writing suuuuucks.
 

KevinV12000

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
749
Location
Some Lame-ass International Organization
I'm enjoying the expansion a lot, even with the banter, but good lord in heaven what is up with the camera and zoom? The zoom level is bobbing and weaving more than me after my 13th pint.

Is there any way at all to impose a single zoom level on this game? I've searched for mods, and don't see anything that sets the zoom level to stick.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Jake Solomon on Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, and how it inspires "the next XCOM", its movement mechanic for example: https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/11/16869202/mario-rabbids-best-games-2017-year-in-review

Mario + Rabbids inspired the creative director of XCOM to reevaluate the genre

The first time I heard about Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, I was hunkered in my hotel room in Los Angeles during the E3 expo in June. I was feverishly preparing a presentation of my own game, XCOM 2: War of the Chosen, while half-listening to the Nintendo press conference in the background. I didn’t pay much attention. It seemed a vague stream of soothing words like “amiibo” and “Yoshi.”

And then I began to hear something else: familiar phrases, to me at least, like “turn-based tactics” and “half cover.” I paused, turned up the volume, and watched.

It was one of the most surreal experiences of my professional life. There was Luigi, sliding into cover, his gun at the ready. There was Mario, unloading a volley of blaster fire from his overwatch position. And there was Princess Peach, weighing a 50 percent shot on an enemy.

My phone began to ding. A steady stream of text messages, emails and notifications from friends, colleagues and journalists that boiled down to one question: “Dude, did they put Mario in an XCOM game?” Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle turned out to be much more than that. And after that immediate sense of shock when I saw the game for the first time, my next emotion wasn’t fear of competition. It was hope.

The nice thing about working in a genre like turn-based tactics is that it isn’t a zero-sum game. Good tactics games create new tactics players, and then everyone in the genre benefits. Besides, the game looked beautiful and fun, and I wanted it to be good because I wanted to play it. Not even two months later, we all found out that Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle really is beautiful and fun, and it is very good.

Make no mistake, it isn’t XCOM. There is cover, yes, and flanking, and a few other elements that look familiar. But the missions play out in completely different ways. In XCOM, we script as little as possible. We design complex systems like AI, procedural environments, mission objectives and soldier abilities, and then we just sit back and let those systems play out. We have no way of knowing when a player is going to confront a particular mission, what enemies will be there or what the map will actually look like. Even as the designer, when I play through a mission I’m constantly surprised. There is no “right” way to play XCOM. If you survived the mission, then no matter how you did it, you did it right.

In Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, there is very much a “right” way to do things. The missions are hand-designed, and they are essentially puzzles that the player must solve. In XCOM, player stress comes from the understanding that the game does not care whether you win or lose. The game is simply an unfeeling collection of systems. Your favorite soldier was just killed? XCOM doesn’t care. The rules are the rules, and when you make mistakes, there must be consequences.

In Kingdom Battle, the stress comes from knowing there is only a narrow band of choices that will lead to victory. Every choice you make could set you down the wrong path, and in later missions, the band of choices narrows even further. Yet the stress of combat is also offset by powerful new innovations to the tactics genre. Movement is surprisingly fun and kinetic, with allies leaping off of each other, sliding through nearby enemies or traveling through pipes to completely different areas of the battlefield.

Who knew that a game put together from such disparate parts could make such a satisfying whole? Mario leading a squad into turn-based combat against the Rabbids, combined with a puzzle-heavy real-time overworld exploration game? It sounds like an idea hastily scrawled in a junior-high notebook.

Playing Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, I had many moments where I laughed out loud, or felt a twinge of jealousy at a particularly clever mechanic, or felt that most coveted gaming moment: the exhilaration of a worthy challenge finally overcome. All of this happened in a game in a genre I supposedly know as intimately as anyone can.

Mario + Rabbids reminded me of how much I still have to learn as a designer. Making XCOM is very rewarding. It is also excruciating. Every version is a yearslong process fraught with stress, doubt and long, long hours. When it’s that hard to do something well, you can convince yourself that you must be doing it right. Innovating on core concepts seems not only risky, but wrong somehow. As a designer, your vision narrows, and any challenges to your core design pillars sound like heresy.

What a joy, then, to have another team come along and upend your thinking, showing you that there is always room to improve on old concepts. For example, in XCOM, moving a soldier is typically a simple case of running them from cover A to cover B. That’s how it’s always been, and it’s not something I ever thought of changing. Until I played Mario + Rabbids, that is, where movement is a chain of interesting decisions like springboarding off of your squadmates, sliding through your enemies, rolling through warp tunnels — all before you fire a single shot. Movement in Kingdom Battle adds a whole new layer of tactical interest to every turn. It jolted me into reconsidering one of XCOM’s design principles.

Not that anyone should expect bright colors, talking plants and crazed forest creatures in the next XCOM. But don’t be surprised to see movement work completely differently. This, ultimately, is the delight of Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle for me: to have a worthy competitor, or perhaps a worthy compatriot. When people make good games, everyone wins.
 

ArchAngel

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Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,992
Fuck him. With Phantom Doctrine, Phoenix Point and Xenonauts 2 coming out I can finally forget about Firaxis's subpar additions to Xcom genre.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Fuck him. With Phantom Doctrine, Phoenix Point and Xenonauts 2 coming out I can finally forget about Firaxis's subpar additions to Xcom genre.

Well FWIW at least two of them could have not existed if it's not Firaxis' XCOM and its success. So there's that.
 

GrainWetski

Arcane
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,097
We might've gotten some actually good turn-based games if Firaxis hadn't taken a massive dump on the franchise. Instead everyone's just making more garbage using that trashy, simplistic combat system.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
You are so funny.

Firaxis just restored a forgotten franchise and it is one of the very few tripla A devs who invest in turn based instead of random Fps.

They also provided an awesome mod support.

Xcom 2 is a good game, haters gonna hate.

I am pretty sure you would consider X com 2 a masterpiece if only it was made by an indie dev. It's pretty embarassing tbh.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,992
You are so funny.

Firaxis just restored a forgotten franchise and it is one of the very few tripla A devs who invest in turn based instead of random Fps.

They also provided an awesome mod support.

Xcom 2 is a good game, haters gonna hate.

I am pretty sure you would consider X com 2 a masterpiece if only it was made by an indie dev. It's pretty embarassing tbh.
No, I would not. Yea their first Xcom kind of revived the genre by bringing in new players and for that I am grateful, but overall their games are subpar, even with Long War mods.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
You are so funny.

Firaxis just restored a forgotten franchise and it is one of the very few tripla A devs who invest in turn based instead of random Fps.

They also provided an awesome mod support.

Xcom 2 is a good game, haters gonna hate.

I am pretty sure you would consider X com 2 a masterpiece if only it was made by an indie dev. It's pretty embarassing tbh.
No, I would not. Yea their first Xcom kind of revived the genre by bringing in new players and for that I am grateful, but overall their games are subpar, even with Long War mods.

Dude, i've seen you shittalking on every game in this forum, i don't know what kind of problems do you have but this means your opinion about games its kinda forgettable.
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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Vatnik
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
12,836
Location
don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
XCOM 2 was good but it never was living to the full potential of the franchise. It also butchered things that were in older installments. I can understand this because the modus operandi for XCOM have changed -the whole guerilla flying avenger thingy, but to makeup for this they should have expanded the other mechanics, but they didnt. The game feels more like a superheroes tactical game, rather than strategy game, the soldiers performance is mostly derived from perks, rather than gear, limiting the flexibility and encouraging to save soldiers, or even to resort to savescumming. XCOM beauty was in expendable soldiers. This is my only complaint along with lack of time units system,and presence of pod activation system. Otherwise everything was improved upon the first XCOM. We have to know what is clouded by nostalgia and what is not.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,992
You are so funny.

Firaxis just restored a forgotten franchise and it is one of the very few tripla A devs who invest in turn based instead of random Fps.

They also provided an awesome mod support.

Xcom 2 is a good game, haters gonna hate.

I am pretty sure you would consider X com 2 a masterpiece if only it was made by an indie dev. It's pretty embarassing tbh.
No, I would not. Yea their first Xcom kind of revived the genre by bringing in new players and for that I am grateful, but overall their games are subpar, even with Long War mods.

Dude, i've seen you shittalking on every game in this forum, i don't know what kind of problems do you have but this means your opinion about games its kinda forgettable.
Maybe just shittalking on games you like?
I do like many games and only shittalk for those that deserve it.
Also one man shittalk is another man negative opinion. If you don't like it, don't read it. Have fun fanboy.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
XCOM 2 was good but it never was living to the full potential of the franchise. It also butchered things that were in older installments. I can understand this because the modus operandi for XCOM have changed -the whole guerilla flying avenger thingy, but to makeup for this they should have expanded the other mechanics, but they didnt. The game feels more like a superheroes tactical game, rather than strategy game, the soldiers performance is mostly derived from perks, rather than gear, limiting the flexibility and encouraging to save soldiers, or even to resort to savescumming. XCOM beauty was in expendable soldiers. This is my only complaint along with lack of time units system,and presence of pod activation system. Otherwise everything was improved upon the first XCOM. We have to know what is clouded by nostalgia and what is not.

Ofc it has his flaws, but in general is a a fun game and a more than decent full single player strategy experience.

For sure it is not total crap.
 

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