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Super Serious Scientific Analysis and Critique of BG2:SoA

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
BG doesn't even have a "twiddle" anim for utility skills. It does not have crouch, climb ladder or run anims. Its sprites do not even have death anims; instead, it's just a separate composited effect. BG has a pathetic 4 frame idle anim. Fallout has way better ranged and melee anims (super sledge, knives, guns, rifles, rocket launchers, grenades). Moreoever, for anyone who has eyes that can see, it's clear that the sprites are more detailed in Fallout.

Fallout anims are impressive to this day and only Jagged Alliance 2 did more. Diablo 1 anims are also better than BG, but they are nowhere near Fallout calibre. Both games came out before BG, too.

Again, you are a shitposter and have shit taste.

The crouch animation for sneak looks retarded like the character has shit his pants. The climb ladder animation is buggy as fuck and does not work properly half the time or the guy hangs somewhere in the air instead of on the ladder.
It does not fucking matter if you have more animations cycles when you watch the same fucking and at times non-sensical (hip shooting any rifle /facepalm) animation over and over.
No Fallout animations are not "impressive". They are serviceable and that is it and like all games of the time they were extremely limited. If you are so easily pleased that a few extra frames excuses the extreme repetitiveness then by all means continue being mentally handicapped.
And idle animations, seriously? Who gives a shit about that?

You are literally the only person I know who defends someone claiming that BG graphics look "more dated" than Fallout based on nothing but the sprites and weapon animations which are just as repetitive as in any other game.

So you are telling me that this:
fallout-1.gif


Looks better than this:
baldurs-gate-2-complete-edition-pc-cd-key-3.jpg

And that is not even taking into account the spell effects which are far more numerous than animations for sprites in FO and many of them look better than anything you can see in Fallout.

You really are retarded.
 
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Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Spell effects have nothing to do with sprites; like I said, they are composited as separate cycles (3d overly in your citation). Death anims are up to 180 sprite frames in Fallout. And citing EE is comical: an ugly, blurry mess.

Yes, Fallout sprites not only look better in stills, but also in movement. Like I said, only Jagged Alliance 2 did more. Now, shut your hole and go read my blog to get educated on RPGs.
 

Sykar

Arcane
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Dec 2, 2014
Messages
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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Spell effects have nothing to do with sprites; like I said, they are composited as separate cycles (3d overly in your citation). Death anims are up to 180 sprite frames in Fallout. And citing EE is comical: an ugly, blurry mess.

Yes, Fallout sprites not only look better in stills, but also in movement. Like I said, only Jagged Alliance 2 did more. Now, shut your hole and go read my blog to get educated on RPGs.

Yes seeing the same death animation a thousand times sure makes all the difference when comparing two games, you dumbfuck.

No I won't shut up when retards like you defend the moronic notion that Fallout looks better than BG where one game is made of blurry lego bricks and the other has beautifully handcrafted backgrounds which hold to this day based on nothing but repetetive animations "but they have moar cycles!!!111
And the only defense you have is "but spell effects are not sprites!" and "lol EE" as if that is a valid argument when it comes to comparing how games have aged.

You are the epitome of a retard.

18.jpg


Here a "non-EE" screenshot. Still looks better than anything you find in Fallout. Or JA 2 for that matter.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Yes seeing the 1000ths same death animation sure makes all the difference, you dumbfuck.

Like I said in the blogpost, there are many different death anims. But yeah, reading is hard and makes your brain hurt; it's easier for you to just flap your ignorant chops instead, I know.

Editing like mad, are we? Also, we weren't talking about backdrops. If you want to bring in other shit, BG has no talking heads. Fallout also has seamless transition from outdoors to indoors; BG has to load a new zone.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
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Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Yes seeing the 1000ths same death animation sure makes all the difference, you dumbfuck.

Like I said in the blogpost, there are many different death anims. But yeah, reading is hard and makes your brain hurt; it's easier for you to just flap your ignorant chops instead, I know.

Also, we weren't talking about backdrops. If you want to bring in other shit, BG has no talking heads.

Unsurprisingly you fail to get the point. No the death animation is the same for each weapon. Using an SMG will always give you the same two death animation one normal and for surplus damage and yes it gets repetitive fast. Got it yet retard?
Talking heads? How many are there compared to the entire game? And they have not aged well in particular either:

latest


And the original point was how the games have aged and even for its time Fallout had... pedestrian graphics.

It's interesting because it's an useful early game purchase that may help greatly with a larger quest.

Potentially, yeah. But De Arnise has fire arrows conveniently itemized, the Captain outside even gives you some (and tells you what they're for), and there are low level spells like Burning Hands, Melf's Acid Arrow and Flame Arrow, anyway.

so too bad the series' graphics haven't aged as well as divine divinity's or even fallout's.

Fallout's sprites and anims are superior to the Infinity Engine ones, yeah.

Here just a reminder to what you responded since you seem incapable to remember what you responded to a mere page ago.
 
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Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
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Messages
5,274
The death anims for ballistic, laser, plasma, cattleprod etc. are clearly different. To answer your dumb Q, Fallout has 21 pre-rendered talking heads for key NPCs, each with hundreds of frames for expressions. BG has... none. For the time, Fallout was impressive in almost every way (including its aesthetics). I realize you weren't yet born and can't appreciate historical context, though.

Edit hard. Get buttmad.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
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Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
The death anims for ballistic, laser, plasma, cattleprod etc. are clearly different. To answer your dumb Q, Fallout has 21 pre-rendered talking heads for key NPCs, each with hundreds of frames for expressions. BG has... none. For the time, Fallout was impressive in almost every way (including its aesthetics). I realize you weren't yet born and can't appreciate historical context, though.

Edit hard. Get buttmad.

I was 16 when I bought FO 1 on release date you dumb piece of shite and I still have the original CDs unlike you I bet. Talking heads were rare and made up a tiny fraction of the games overall graphics. Sure is easy to concentrate on a tiny portion and do a lot there and neglecting everything else.
Fallout looked pedestrian back then, especially the environments who were nothing but lego bricks making every map looking pretty artificial and the graphics had exactly the two highlights you mentioned too bad that the animations were repetitive to the max since you would chose a weapon type and related trats and perks and stuck to it which means you see the same death animation for most of the game, hence repetitive so that there were difference between vastly different weapon types mean jack for a playthrough.
Meanwhile BG had beautifully handcrafted backgrounds which hold up even today in a world filled with generic 3D shit and the same goes for the spell effects. Unlike talking heads the backgrounds are great in almost every region and make up a large portion of the game, far more than a few animations and a few rare talking heads, many of which only have a few lines to say and you interact with them maybe twice like Aradesh and Tandi.

And again the original post was about how the game as AGED. Are you really too stupid to even remember what the fuck you where responding in the first place?
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I was 16 when I bought FO 1 on release date you dumb piece of shite

Aww, don't get defensive now.

and I still have the original CDs unlike you I bet.

Insecurity. How cute.

Talking heads were rare and made up a tiny fraction of the games overall graphics.

21 talking heads is rare? Clearly, you have not played Fallout.

Sure is easy to concentrate on a tiny portion and do a lot there and neglecting everything else.

BG neglected sprites and anims more than Diablo and Fallout which preceded it.

Fallout looked pedestrian back then, especially the environments who were nothing but lego bricks making every map looking pretty artificial and the graphics had exactly the two highlights you mentioned too bad that the animations were repetitive to the max since you would chose a weapon type and related trats and perks and stuck to it which means you see the same death animation for most of the game, hence repetitive so that there were difference between vastly different weapon types mean jack for a playthrough.

Don't rant; it's unsightly. Try to stay classy. Lego bricks > blurry, smudgy mess.

Meanwhile BG had beautifully handcrafted backgrounds which hold up even today in a world filled with generic 3D shit and the same goes for the spell effects. Unlike talking heads the backgrounds are great in almost every region and make up a large portion of the game, far more than a few animations and a few rare talking heads, many of which only have a few lines to say and you interact with them maybe twice like Aradesh and Tandi.

Go hard on the backdrops. But Fallout did a better job there, too. So did Jagged Alliance 2.

And again the original post was about how the game as AGED. Are you really too stupid to even remember what the fuck you where responding in the first place?

Fallout aesthetics have aged better than BG aesthetics.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I was 16 when I bought FO 1 on release date you dumb piece of shite

Aww, don't get defensive now.

and I still have the original CDs unlike you I bet.

Insecurity. How cute.

Talking heads were rare and made up a tiny fraction of the games overall graphics.

21 talking heads is rare? Clearly, you have not played Fallout.

Sure is easy to concentrate on a tiny portion and do a lot there and neglecting everything else.

BG neglected sprites and anims more than Diablo and Fallout which preceded it.

Fallout looked pedestrian back then, especially the environments who were nothing but lego bricks making every map looking pretty artificial and the graphics had exactly the two highlights you mentioned too bad that the animations were repetitive to the max since you would chose a weapon type and related trats and perks and stuck to it which means you see the same death animation for most of the game, hence repetitive so that there were difference between vastly different weapon types mean jack for a playthrough.

Don't rant; it's unsightly. Try to stay classy. Lego bricks > blurry, smudgy mess.

Meanwhile BG had beautifully handcrafted backgrounds which hold up even today in a world filled with generic 3D shit and the same goes for the spell effects. Unlike talking heads the backgrounds are great in almost every region and make up a large portion of the game, far more than a few animations and a few rare talking heads, many of which only have a few lines to say and you interact with them maybe twice like Aradesh and Tandi.

Go hard on the backdrops. But Fallout did a better job there, too. So did Jagged Alliance 2.

And again the original post was about how the game as AGED. Are you really too stupid to even remember what the fuck you where responding in the first place?

Fallout aesthetics have aged better than BG aesthetics.

Several dozen beautifully hand crafted backgrounds > pixelated lego bricks (BG 2 had 800*600 resolution vs 640*480 for both FOs)
Several dozen different spell effects > few repetetive animations
Portraits still hold up today, talking heads look very dated.

BG 2 looks miles better back then and today than any of the original FO games.

And claiming that JA 2 looks better than BG is so retarded that it does not even warrant further discussion.
Now fuck off retard.
 
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Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
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Agen
- So... what BG2 did right ?
If we're sticking with BG2, and thus lose the vast world/open exploration argument (and that's a big one), then I guess one of the things I liked most in BG2 is the use of D&D lore for high level parties. While things got downright silly in ToB, BG2 managed to give the veteran D&D player I already was at the time a run for his money. The trip to the underdark for instance was very, very cool. While I played many an hour of tabletop D&D, me and my bunch never got serious enough to play those high level stuff and kept drooling over some of the stuff from the various monster manuals. So getting to fight Kuo-Toas, explore a beholder's lair, visit a drow city or get captured by illithids was, and still is, a treat.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
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You should have already had a chance to fight Kuo-Toa in Death Knight of Krynn (Gold Box). There was also a Gold Box game where you fought drow (all armed and armoured with +5 items that disintegrated in the sun). I can't remember which one it was for the life of me. And beholders were all over Dark Queen of Krynn.
 

Lonely Vazdru

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I played it back then but I don't like real-time blobbers. The only real good time I had with one was playing Dungeon Master 2, but with a friend, one on the mouse the other on the keyboard. I did play some NWN modules based on the EotB game and one of those was really nice. Rust monsters are a D&D nightmare.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
fallout have a full burst death animation (more than one also a critical hit full burst?), i remember that not because the quality but because teached me how awesome can be an rpg with minigun and sniper rifle.

he teached me to respect the guy with a strong armor and a minigun and also teached me that i can shot him in the eyes and ignore all the damage resistance from his cool armor.

(like gothic teached me to respect the guy that wear an poweful armor because he earned it)

bg2 teached me that even be the son of the god of murder it’s not a big deal when you start trapped in a magical dungeon and tortuted, you escape and you found that demilich, vampires, dragons don’t really care
about you being a special snowflake.

you still have to earn all even after your adventure in bg1, you can still grow stronger, and fight harder enemies, and certain enemies can even have good motivation for stop you and kill you.


i never played an rpg for the graphic or animation, but i love when the designer use animation, graphic, music, sound to comuncate something important.

(bullet to the head piece of skull jumping around= bad)
(strange magical effect that i have no idea what spell is = this magician is going to hurt me)

i hate instead when is all about “it look cool so it’s cool because it look cool = hei levl one guy thake the coolest armor in the game!!!”
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Both Fallout and BG look 10/10. I rated both of you "shit", because you're both insulting my favorite games.

And yet, in the last few years I've posted 80 or so write-ups on the Bhaalspawn Saga (a dozen in a few weeks at one point), almost all of which have cast both campaigns in a favorable light.

Compared to that, you are just another shitposting scrub of the Codex.
 

Cael

Arcane
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Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,296
fallout have a full burst death animation (more than one also a critical hit full burst?), i remember that not because the quality but because teached me how awesome can be an rpg with minigun and sniper rifle.
Fallout2 has the following special death animations (as is not just fall over and then a pool of blood appears). All are guns only, there doesn't seem to be special death animations for hand-to-hand combat:
Single shot non-energy - side explodes
Burst, lower threshold - guy jerks as multiple splotches of blood appears on his chest
Burst, high threshold - head/arm explodes off
Laser - guy cut in half
Plasma - guy melts
Electrical - cartoon style zapping then reduced to a pile of ash
Explosion - pieces everywhere
Fire - guy does a rain dance... while on fire

It is worth noting that non-human targets also have different death animations dependent on weapons. Lasers slice aliens in two, single shot explodes them, burst punch them full of holes, electrical reduces them to ash, etc.

Special death animations are triggered by damage dealt.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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there doesn't seem to be special death animations for hand-to-hand combat

Super Sledge has knockdown and knockback and Big Frigger punches holes in torso. Not unique to them, but still.
 

Cael

Arcane
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there doesn't seem to be special death animations for hand-to-hand combat

Super Sledge has knockdown and knockback and Big Frigger punches holes in torso. Not unique to them, but they are death anims.
Knockdown and knockback happens even on a non-death hit. Melee weapons knockdown and knockback 1 square for every 10 points of damage, with those tagged with a special perk knockback 1 square every 5. Sledgehammer and super sledge both have the perk, which is why they fly so far. However, it is not a special death animation, just a normal hit result and then a spreading pool of blood.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Punching holes in torso with Big Frigger IS a death anim. Nice try, proved you wrong.
 

Cael

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Punching holes in torso with Big Frigger IS a death anim. Nice try, proved you wrong.
I never mentioned anything about the Frigger. Nor did I mention anything about punching holes in torsos.

I specifically didn't mention it because the power fist is the one weapon which I have never used or have one of my NPCs use, whereas I have had Sulik use the Supersledge.

I don't know how you can prove me wrong. But that's OK. You can claim you proved me wrong all you want. It doesn't affect me in the slightest as I am more mature than kindergarden kids, but if that is the only way you can get your rocks off, be my guest.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Punching holes in torso with Big Frigger IS a death anim. Nice try, proved you wrong.
I never mentioned anything about the Frigger. Nor did I mention anything about punching holes in torsos.

I specifically didn't mention it because the power fist is the one weapon which I have never used or have one of my NPCs use, whereas I have had Sulik use the Supersledge.

I don't know how you can prove me wrong. But that's OK. You can claim you proved me wrong all you want. It doesn't affect me, but if that is the only way you can get your rocks off, be my guest.

Another dolt. You said there doesn't seem to be a death anim for hand-2-hand. Big Frigger is hand-2-hand combat, and there IS a death anim for inflicting exceptional dmg by Mega Power Fist (and perhaps even spiked knuckles; I can't recall). You have clearly been proved wrong to those who know the game.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,296
Another dolt. You said there doesn't seem to be a death anim for hand-2-hand. Big Frigger is hand-2-hand combat, and there IS a death anim for inflicting exceptional dmg by Mega Power Fist (and perhaps even spiked knuckles; I can't recall). You have clearly been proved wrong and any Fallout acknowledge it.
Kindly refer to the meaning of the word "seem" and contrast it with the meaning of the word "assert". Thank you.

However, I can understand your aggressive defensiveness. After all, you did assert that the knockback and knockdown effect is a special death animation when it isn't. I can understand why you would go all gung-ho to cover your mistake. You are not the first to do so and won't be the last.
 

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