ELEX ELEX RELEASE THREAD

[Xeon]

Spoiler

You can pickpocket the ELEX but quest didn't seem to update.

Didn't bother to report back and reloaded, after stealing the ELEX and talking to Kral after you pickpocket the ELEX, he doesn't notice as well.

 

[Grimlorn]

What did you think was going to happen? He's a fucking mutant.

 

[Xeon]

What? Dude, I just googled and Kral is the Berserker who ran. His brother is the mutant or did he also get infected or something.

Spoiler

Wait, does that mean the mutant is the one with the ELEX quest item?

Then that means I just stole money Elex from Kral. That sounds pretty retarded if I did.

 

[hilfazer]

Haggler skill is a net gain.
For 2 SPs you reduce purchase prices by 10%. One big ELEX potion costs 1050 elexit (not counting recipe but it's cheap) so 2 potions = 2100. You save that much money by purchasing items worth 21000. And you will easily spend more than that.

Golden Whispers glow in darkness.
I've seen one King's Sorrel that was sourrounded by fireflies at night so it was easy to spot too. Dunno if it applies to other sorrels.

 

[Murk]

Haggler skill turns mechanical scrap, electronic scrap, and golden nuggets into an endless elexit glitch that you can abuse to make unlimited money (at a profit of 1 elexit per item) by just selling and rebuying.

Hope you like repetitive menu navigation!

 

[Xeon]

Yeah, that sounds pretty dull and autistic to try, will be more than willing to use a glitch or cheat engine if I want to get money that way.

Found one King's Sorrel on top of a converter, was also glowing.

 

[Tigranes]

Haggler skill is a net gain.
For 2 SPs you reduce purchase prices by 10%. One big ELEX potion costs 1050 elexit (not counting recipe but it's cheap) so 2 potions = 2100. You save that much money by purchasing items worth 21000. And you will easily spend more than that.

Golden Whispers glow in darkness.
I've seen one King's Sorrel that was sourrounded by fireflies at night so it was easy to spot too. Dunno if it applies to other sorrels.

The real question is time. E.g. do you have enough spare money to immediately buy enough elex to get those SP back, or are you otherwise swimming in spare SP that you don't need to? (In my experience, that's generally after level 15 or so, before which you're really needing new SPs and money.) And after that, when will you buy enough to make the money back? (Again, maybe very quickly at higher levels, but quite some time afterwards for earlier levels.)

I don't think it's always worth it. I would rather have 2 SPs right now to use on other useful skills that I can have earlier to kill things or explore more easily, for example, even if doing the Haggle stuff would net me a profit of a few thousand Elexit by endgame when I don't need the extra money anyway.

A common misconception of most character theorycrafting is that you calculate based on the endpoint, but especially in games like Elex, having something a little quicker can mean a lot more for player power / convenience.

 

[Shadenuat]

Speaking numbers and profit, what if we play a little game and try and fix some issues game has just by tweaking some numbers?

- Elexit shards. Of course, everyone knows that those are used as glittering loot to get your attention to places and are often hidden together with elixit deposits (which you need a tool to mine), sometimes near incredibly powerful enemies. And of course nobody collects those without thinking and then recounting their elex, so everyone knows how much elex you get from a shard.

It's one. One elexit.

And the small bag gives you 25, while larger, used as incredible rewards for you climbing something equally incredible holds 50.

In comparison, pickpocketing a drunk bum can net up to a 100, while killing some respawning dumbfuck with trophies would net, if we recount all our ivory plates and ivory parts, my minimal guess from 400 and more. No wonder once you hand over your teeth and claws, especially with haggler, sometimes you get 2000-3000 elexit per one item stack.

As for mining, it has it's own skill to use, and I know how much I got for mining that another elixit deposit behind a skullfuck enemy.

It's twenty. Twenty elixit. I think game just always gives you a twenty, because that's same for any resource, even gold nuggets. But, what if we hunt for deposits minecraft style as an alternative way of playing the game instead of pickpocketing bums and such, I mean, it's an open world game so you should have different approaches BUT grinding same quests with every type of character you make, and using same skills?

Well, investing into Mining improves the gains. Instead of twenty, you'll get thirty. Kek. Exploration, here we go!

So how do we tweak this?

Well, the first thing I'd nerf would be Trophies, since they are an infinite money supply due to fact that, well, monsters infinitely spawn, even endgame trolls and deathclaws can spawn near you first Camp, where your companions staying there can farm them for you for free moneys.

An elixit shard could give probably at least 10, and elixit bag at very least double, like a 50 or even 100, and large bag should be at least 100 or 200. So finding secret cellar beneath some secret place would be a bigger achievement than farming turkeys all day. Mining, it should work differently for every resource, but it should net x5 or even x10 amount with skill invested, depending on type of resource (20 iron is less than 20 gold).

Trophies should also net you some crafting materials and increase the amount of stuff like meat you gain, so that skills would increase your sustainability by netting more meat, and hand you things like Leather which is used in Outlaw recipes for example (it does so for some recipes, but not for all of them).

- Combat and damage. (Observations based on Ultimate difficulty) For what it's worth, the Q attack, especially on Ultimate, does so little damage compared to R1s that it's almost meaningless when traded for the amount of control and responsiveness you lose. It should do at least x3 damage base, even without skill investment.

For the amount of elexit you spend on them, some heavy weapons should do triple, if not x5 damage compared to other weapons. For example, all heavy weapons that are not Flamer (which uses 1 elixit per fuel ammo) have either rare ammunition or Hand Grenade to craft that ammunition, as well as multiple Tapes, Plasma packs and such. What does that mean? It means you're trading say a few plasma packs (which can be used with plasma rifle to rain AoE death on enemies) AND extra resources, spending hundreds of elixit to get 1 plasma missile which would do 125 damage instead of 100 damage from plasma rifle. This means that heavy weapons not only cancel your jetpack movement and strafing but also are simply innefective (except of Flamer).

- Experience from quests and monsters. This is really a difficult one, since it ties to the fact that monsters respawn. Perhaps, tweaking amount of XP you get could depend on your level, so more leveled you are, the less XP you gain from weaker enemies. New player DESERVES those 1000 or more XP for his first troll or chimera taken down, I don't think anyone could argue that.

Elixit from quests, could also be tweaked. Heck, I'd probably DOUBLE amount of it you gain from many quests, since some rewards give you like 75-150 elixit, which is a drop in the sea of brooms and mugs you unload on a vendor every time. The whole Claws questline nets you what, 3k? 4k? While your spending in the game counts in tens of thousands.

Speaking of it, I'd just remove half or so of the useable and pickable items from the game, not only because they sometimes block your actions - I'd pay for a mod that removes ALL CHAIRS near chests, - but because it makes sense to make unique loot more valuable, and trash loot just that - trash. And since enemies never drop weapons or armor, these could probably be more expensive since it's a rare find, depending on their tier.

 

[Darth Roxor]

*Jacques in Regent armour approaches some guy in the fort*

"HEY, YOU THERE, NEW GOY, YOU ARE LUCKY YOU AIN'T NO BERSERKER. THESE PISS ME OFF ABOUT AS MUCH AS THE CLERICS."

"uhm"

"BUT SINCE YOU'RE NEW HERE YOU MIGHT GIMME A HAND WITH STH."

"I'm a cleric tho."

"EH THATS GOOD NOBODY KNOWS YOU."

"uhhh ooookaaay..."

*walks away a few steps*

"HEY YOU, ARE YOU FOR LOGAN OR BAXTER?"

"Neither, I'm a cleric."

"OOOO I SEE. BETTER NOT TELL PPL ABOOT IT IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE"

*regent cloak keeps flapping on the wind*

"Naturlich."

 

[Grimlorn]

Haggler skill is a net gain.
For 2 SPs you reduce purchase prices by 10%. One big ELEX potion costs 1050 elexit (not counting recipe but it's cheap) so 2 potions = 2100. You save that much money by purchasing items worth 21000. And you will easily spend more than that.

Golden Whispers glow in darkness.
I've seen one King's Sorrel that was sourrounded by fireflies at night so it was easy to spot too. Dunno if it applies to other sorrels.

The real question is time. E.g. do you have enough spare money to immediately buy enough elex to get those SP back, or are you otherwise swimming in spare SP that you don't need to? (In my experience, that's generally after level 15 or so, before which you're really needing new SPs and money.) And after that, when will you buy enough to make the money back? (Again, maybe very quickly at higher levels, but quite some time afterwards for earlier levels.)

I don't think it's always worth it. I would rather have 2 SPs right now to use on other useful skills that I can have earlier to kill things or explore more easily, for example, even if doing the Haggle stuff would net me a profit of a few thousand Elexit by endgame when I don't need the extra money anyway.

A common misconception of most character theorycrafting is that you calculate based on the endpoint, but especially in games like Elex, having something a little quicker can mean a lot more for player power / convenience.

When you put in 2 points into Haggler, there is an infinite money making way through buying and selling that still hasn't been patched.

- Combat and damage. For what it's worth, the Q attack, especially on Ultimate, does so little damage compared to R1s that it's almost meaningless when traded for the amount of control and responsiveness you lose. It should do at least x3 damage base, even without skill investment.

The Q attack is fine, once you build up a good combo where you're taking off chunks of health, you can add a Q attack when an Ice Troll or Cyclops is at about half health and kill them in one hit.

 

[Shadenuat]

"OOOO I SEE. BETTER NOT TELL PPL ABOOT IT IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE"

REACTIVITY

The Q attack is fine

I based my observations on Ultimate, and really combos are just not that useful since nothing dies in 1 hit, even level 1 turkeys.

 

[Grimlorn]

I think they meant to put Baxter into the game but never got around to it.

Spoiler

The question from Blake doesn't even matter at all I think. Half the Fort is loyal to Baxter including Blake, there are references to him in notes Reavers carry suggesting he's leading them. It's weird not to include him at all.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You gotta remember the Q attack also does scaling damage depending on your combo bar, I believe. I've brewed myself enough stamina potions that I can now do 10-hit combos, and the Q attack at the end of that is Seriously Serious.

It's also kind of relevant to what Tigranes observed earlier about the relative HP bloat in this game compared to Risen 1. The thing is that here the damage sorta scales exponentially off itself, to put it that way - bigger combo, bigger damage, as opposed to the damage being relatively static in Risen 1. I currently tot a Regent sword II + energy, and it takes me 3 hits to kill a rat, which at this point in any Gothic would have likely taken me 1, but otoh with the superstamina giving me EXTREMELY exploding damage with each strike of the 10-hit combo, I can typically get rid of anything that isn't a troll in just 1 combo.

 

[Shadenuat]

Too bad there are no combos for crap like shotguns, and making a 10 hit combo while fighting anything but 1 enemy is not that easy. And really, good weapon kills enemies in less than 10 hits even without combo.
Personally I found Q attacks pretty underwhelming and sluggish, depending on weapon. And we don't really know HOW combos work and by how much they multiply damage depending on amount of hits so it's hard to say anything about it except the feels.

...you played almost 50 hours and still didn't upgrade weapon to Tier 3?

 

[Black]

 

[Darth Roxor]

...you played almost 50 hours and still didn't upgrade weapon to Tier 3?

remember: no elex potions

 

[Shadenuat]

review

First good review?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Even Risen 1 had damage increase with the combo. And staff did more damage on power attacks than the other melee weapons.

 

[Murk]

Risen 1 did indeed power up with combos, even if the first few hits missed the latter one did bonus damage (so really, it was the further the attack is in a chain the more damage it does).

Regarding mining in Elex, the skill is useless but the jackhammer is good for ore for upgrading shit.

If upgrading the mining skill meant you could get gemstones from deposits, then it'd be great and worth it.

 

[Tigranes]

When you put in 2 points into Haggler, there is an infinite money making way through buying and selling that still hasn't been patched.

And why would I want to waste my time cheating/exploiting bugs? I might as well use the console commands (if they exist) and save myself some time instead of larping a Chinese gold farmer. It's also hardly an endorsement of the skill's value under normal conditions.

 

[Tigranes]

...you played almost 50 hours and still didn't upgrade weapon to Tier 3?

remember: no elex potions

We all know you are fitting in the required 7 playthroughs into 1

 

[Grimlorn]

When you put in 2 points into Haggler, there is an infinite money making way through buying and selling that still hasn't been patched.

And why would I want to waste my time cheating/exploiting bugs? I might as well use the console commands (if they exist) and save myself some time instead of larping a Chinese gold farmer. It's also hardly an endorsement of the skill's value under normal conditions.

There's a difference between exploiting glitches or cheating using the console and using a legitimate method of trading. It's all the same you can spend a bunch of time grinding mobs for stuff to sell so you can buy natural elex for elex potions. 10% off is pretty good if you plan on crafting them to raise your stats since you need to spend tens of thousands of elexit on them.

 

[Darth Roxor]

There's a difference between exploiting glitches or cheating using the console and using a legitimate method of trading.

tbh i have no idea why anyone would need to use a money exploit in this gaem

i always run around with at least 10k geld and i probably have over ten times that in liquid assets (aka 1000 claws and teeth, 10000 cigarettes, etc)

 

[Murk]

Haggle is worth getting even without using the exploit cuz money = elex = stat and skill points = more important than xp and pays itself off very quickly since you can just buy 10 elex and make a skill point potion (assuming you don't burn points for the stat pre-reqs).

 

[Tigranes]

When you put in 2 points into Haggler, there is an infinite money making way through buying and selling that still hasn't been patched.

And why would I want to waste my time cheating/exploiting bugs? I might as well use the console commands (if they exist) and save myself some time instead of larping a Chinese gold farmer. It's also hardly an endorsement of the skill's value under normal conditions.

There's a difference between exploiting glitches or cheating using the console and using a legitimate method of trading. It's all the same you can spend a bunch of time grinding mobs for stuff to sell so you can buy natural elex for elex potions. 10% off is pretty good if you plan on crafting them to raise your stats since you need to spend tens of thousands of elexit on them.

It's marginally 'fairer', but wastes a lot more of my life on pointless boring crap. I mean, I wouldn't do either, and I don't really see "it give syou free money via exploit!" as a reason to take a skill.

I play the game to enjoy exploration, or C&C, or combat. I don't play the game to squeeze out the maximum amount of elexit even if that means I sit there like some call centre worker clicking buy & sell in some exploit or I sit there and shoot rats 500 times. I suppose if your normal gaming involves stealing every single broom and killing respawning rats until you get 10k elexit, this seems a lot better by comparison, but in that case I'm really at a loss to why you aren't just working at McDonalds instead for similar kind of non-fun that at least earns real dollars.