Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

Spacey more or less confirmed it with his own words.

Spacey isn't a reliable source; he is an actor, not a psychiatrist.

Both of you suck at logic.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Game not even released, but people already see flaws in product. And weirder fact - some people see possibility of appearing gay people as game ruining feature. While it's basically win-win situation for all kind of players, for example: people, who hate gays, can kill gay npc and hire straight in tavern, while gay people will enjoy company similar to them and not harass straight npc. Situation with rpg devs nowadays same as with any porn game devs on patreon - in order to gather as much audience as possible with all kind of fetishes they add encounters for people with different taste, so they finally can afford development of game. Unfortunately, rpg nowadays not so much popular (I think it always was for specific auditory, but it's another tale), so some devs really trying hard like Bioware, but it's not Obsidian case.

Look, I understand - people love old games and I am too, but this is it not reason to hate everything which realized after your beloved *name game which fanatics most toxic on forum* and swearing on people with different taste, because this not bring back your young days and that beautiful sense of wonder which brought you in gaming. And definitely not bring new people in your fandom and make popular "ideal" concept (which was used to make your beloved game) and no one company will make similar game. Because nobody will buy it. I don't know about you guys, but I am just happy, because RPG genre still exist, maybe in different way, but still exist. You guys need to look on bright side of things, because you live only once and no reason to turn your life in suffering because games now different. I wish and hope you stop agony and finally can enjoy life, which have no saves or respawn.


P.S. It's just my opinion, maybe life have respawn and after death people respawn in place according their life decisions I can be wrong and you have right to criticize me, but really it's very sad see people with such tragical fate - bring pointless hatred and toxicity in place which was once bright garden, but now half-empty place. It's not too late - make your fate slightly better and change life of whole forum in better way.

 

[Lacrymas]

We really need a facepalm button.

 

[Efe]

outrage is not against homos (hell, this site is owned by dark underlord) but rather against political bias thriving in certain parts of industry which follows its own interests rather than that of the games industry. idea that they are trying to expand possible audiance by adding different (gay,etc) elements doesnt work out when you try to recall when was the last time you played a game because of its inclusivity.

this has happened and it will happen again thanks to people like you with dismissive attitude.

 

[FreeKaner]

It's okey to be gay.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's disgustingly condescending it's what it is. For both gay and straight people. At worst it's saying "look how progressive we are, we are even including GAYS in our vidya gaem!" and at best it's a marketing tool. it's also saccharinely preachy and comes off as forced and like filling up a check-list. Why announce it like that? We'll understand if there are gay people in when we play the game.

 

[FreeKaner]

It's a sound marketing strategy, I won't play a game without at least one trap in it.

 

[Colour Spray]

It buttresses expectations, if anything. Better to let us shit lords down early than have that be the surprise you never asked for once you start to playing the game.

I still think you walk a thin tight-rope between making your game enough of a meme that something like 'ride the bull,' catches on and creates the idea that dragon age is for yaoi. Maybe they'll use the force of implication like they do in more mainstream japanese shows; rather than gay pride: the game. Either way I think it has a broadly different appeal to the expectation you set when you market an orthodox rpg. Kinda like showing up to the cinema expecting an action-adventure based on the trailers and finding that it's a romantic comedy, instead.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

outrage is not against homos (hell, this site is owned by dark underlord) but rather against political bias thriving in certain parts of industry which follows its own interests rather than that of the games industry. idea that they are trying to expand possible audiance by adding different (gay,etc) elements doesnt work out when you try to recall when was the last time you played a game because of its inclusivity.

this has happened and it will happen again thanks to people like you with dismissive attitude.

It's disgustingly condescending it's what it is. For both gay and straight people. At worst it's saying "look how progressive we are, we are even including GAYS in our vidya gaem!" and at best it's a marketing tool. it's also saccharinely preachy and comes off as forced and like filling up a check-list. Why announce it like that? We'll understand if there are gay people in when we play the game.

Well, yes, political bias which you described is bad, I agreed. My political attitude will not help at all, because I live in piss poor country where government use gay people as "traitors and dangerous mental ill people which should be blamed in all problems" aka scape-goat while they waste our taxes on military invasion in neighbor country and censorship of Internet. Even if I will be able to escape from that shithole (and if I will be not having any problems besides political agenda) I will be trying to solve such problem in more different way than complaining on RPG forum where you will be heard only by people with same attitude as yours own and will start campaign on social media or protests on streets.

Roots of problem not even in gaming, if you want to change something you need more than audience one gaming forum, you need show up on political arena, people should talk about you not only in Internet, but everywhere. Does not help? Revolution and civil war your answer. If you want to change situation - you should do anything, but complain on forum about games in thread which not even about already complete game, it's just trailer. Politics not read this forum and even if they do - they not care until you gain some weight in society and not parrots on gaming forum. You can't even troll SJW because they not read that forum too. And then you - person who use gaming forum for political discussion, blame me - person who does not support SJW, but live in another country, in your problems. Sounds weird, isn't it? Any way you can continue spread "awareness" in hopes that something will change, while people in better case will ignore you or call you "annoying as SJW" in worst. It's your own right to do so. I am sorry, I can't join your fight, I have my own problems and use forum as information and entertainment source.

It buttresses expectations, if anything. Better to let us shit lords down early than have that be the surprise you never asked for once you start to playing the game.

I still think you walk a thin tight-rope between making your game enough of a meme that something like 'ride the bull,' catches on and creates the idea that dragon age is for yaoi. Maybe they'll use the force of implication like they do in more mainstream japanese shows; rather than gay pride: the game. Either way I think it has a broadly different appeal to the expectation you set when you market an orthodox rpg. Kinda like showing up to the cinema expecting an action-adventure based on the trailers and finding that it's a romantic comedy, instead.

Kinda like showing up to the cinema expecting an action-adventure based on the trailers and finding that it's a romantic comedy, instead

Well I agreed, this is bad. It's also very similar to false advertising in my opinion.


People have such moral dilemmas and political fights, while I am worried more about balance in general and stats in-game followers ( not from tavern, but with plot) - in first game they was very bad for class which that npc using. And I hope in new game they will make riffles better than was in first and pistols will be usefull, not just decoration.

 

[Hyperion]

Forgetting politics, agendas, and biases, romances outside of pre-established ones that help define a character's arc don't really belong in a game. And even those, unless EXCEPTIONAL can hit the bricks as far as I'm concerned. I'm a combatfag through and through, and appreciated PoE for its plethora of viable character and party builds that felt distinct from one another. I understand it was a stretch goal, and siphoned extra money from the weirdos who need their games to be a wish fulfillment simulator, it doesn't change the fact that I look at it as them essentially pulling resources that could be elsewhere used on things that matter, like fine tuning some game mechanics, designing 1 or 2 more 'superbosses,' or tweaking subclasses to make them as unique as possible. So unless pounding Eder's leathery balloon knot, or stuffing Pallegina's cloaca somehow makes my Watcher a more powerful warrior, I want nothing to do with it, particularly because I'm following someone else's idea of what romance is and should be.

All I want is TWM on steroids, and while I'm pretty sure that's what the final product is going to be, adding romances detracts from that possible outcome. If that makes me a prick, so be it.

 

[Lacrymas]

All I want is TWM on steroids, and while I'm pretty sure that's what the final product is going to be

Hold your horses. They are building the combat system from the ground up again, so I predict it will be a massive clusterfuck at release, just like P1.

 

[Infinitron]

What does that even mean, "the combat system"? Many of the game's mechanics are being revised, but they're built on top of the same combat engine already developed for the first game. They're not coding it from scratch.

 

[Fry]

They're not coding it from scratch.

it will be a massive clusterfuck at release, just like P1

Both these things are true.

 

[Lacrymas]

I didn't say "they are coding it from scratch". I said they are building the combat system from the ground up. The only similarities will be the same abilities. The removal of resting to replenish resources and the Health/Endurance system means they have to totally revise the combat and maybe even some classes.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Speaking about combat system - I was glad to see rifles and pistols in first game (because I love games where technology and magic combined, for example Arcanum), however, after some time of using such a wonderful weapon, I noticed that guns begin to be much less powerful and faster than other weapons and magic. Are there any rumors what devs will do with guns and what their place will be in battle? And what your guys opinion about: how should be guns balanced in game and which class should be used them in main build?

 

[Ruzen]

While it's basically win-win situation for all kind of players, for example: people, who hate gays, can kill gay npc and hire straight in tavern, while gay people will enjoy company similar to them and not harass straight npc.

I for one (and I believe few more people in this discussion) find this kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the train of thought in devs and players minds; It's not about diversity, it's what forced diversity butchering the craft of writing, games or telling a story. Nobody hates if the char turns out to be gay or anything else but when you as your selling point is sexuality "look how nice everyone will win"...that breaks the story in so many ways, in the end, the end product turns out to be shit.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Lacrymas, you are again making the mistake of expecting serious treatment of serious themes in a videogame.

You were quite right in your post about romances just now, what's preventing you from applying the same logic when it comes to a different subject?

 

[Lacrymas]

What? What different subject?

 

[AwesomeButton]

What? What different subject?

Regarding romances' place in RPGs (or in games in general), I understood that your stance was: "In order to get the player to care about a character in the first place, the game has to have superb writing and a story which is engaging this particular player. Most RPGs are far from this level of quality, so trying to write a set of conversations through which to get the player to care about, much less to experience feelings of affection for, an isometrically viewed paperdoll and its portrait is a pointless excercise". Did I get you correctly, does this summarize your view?

If yes, then what's the reason to get worked up about the addition of characters (mind you, that was the word used, not even "party members") which are gay? It's obvious their representation will not reach above the general shallowness of the writing. Romances are going to be crap, not worthy of a serious analysis, so why expect the gay characters to be anything deserving a serious look?

A sidenote - "romances" was never used by Josh, except when he denied the game will feature them. He has always been talking about deeper, more complex character interactions and relationships, as opposed to bioware-style "romances", where you know what the "right" ending should be.

 

[Lacrymas]

Kinda. My stance is also "if you can't write good characters and a good story, don't try to be deep", which is a line PoE1 crossed. Like I said, romantic love in fiction requires extreme justification and wishy-washy, wet rag companions who try to bump uglies with you is almost pathetic in the context of much better written games, let alone literature in general. I'm not worked up about gays specifically, but how they go about advertising it. I care because I like people achieving glorious things and hate when people in positions to make such are a waste of space and squander their advantages so they can virtue signal and preach about a war that has already been fought and won by much better people than them. Include gay (and straight) people when the situation calls for it, but don't try to fill up check-lists because that's what's trendy at the moment. I don't know what else to say about this.

 

[AwesomeButton]

They advertised it?

 

[Lacrymas]

Bioware certainly do. I might be overreacting with Josh, as he was simply answering a question someone asked, but I don't think the question should've been posed at all. That's my problem, though.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[Glaucon]

Josh is adorable.

 

[Lacrymas]

Josh sounds like he's starring in amateur porn.