Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Crispy™ What should have an indie game dev have in terms of hardware/software?

In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
As in to be able to release a game and be able to reasonably expect that it will work on people's computers? I assume game devs usually have a few systems for testing?

What kind of software/hardware is useful?

Let's say I could get a dotation for starting a company, what should I buy for the best start?
 

Nathaniel3W

Rockwell Studios
Patron
Developer
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
1,234
Location
Washington, DC
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
If you're doing a Mac build, you should have a Mac.

I'm doing development on a six-year-old PC, quad Core i5 2.3 GHz. I actually upgraded the video card to a hand-me-down GTX 750 (now two generations old). I notice how slow it is when I'm compiling code or shaders. Except for that, it's fine for everything else I'm doing. It's also a good system for testing performance because it's similar to what I think most of my users will have.

If you can get someone to donate it, go big. For processors, get 2x16 Core i7's. 32 gigs of DDR4 RAM. Stacks of multiterrabyte SSDs.

But seriously, what you need depends on what you're doing.
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
Patron
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
9,681
Location
Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Some indie devs are releasing games for the Apple II, other for DOS.

There is SIMPLY no hardware requirement other than having a browser being able to connect to Kickstarter.

Talent is all that matters in an overcrowded, over competitive market. Talent, and a death wish.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,347
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Also you should have an engine you are actually familiar with that is suited to your project. That's the most important thing, unless you want to sperg and write your own for years while you slowly go broke and die of hunger because you spend time writing basic features for everything.

The worst thing you can do in the middle of a project, besides scrapping everything and starting over, is switching engines and porting everything to a new one.

Graphics software depends on who the artist is and what he is used to. You want art to be made efficiently as that either translates to more time for coding (if you are a one man dev team) or into more art assets.

In general, avoid learning shit from scratch so for now pick tools you or the other people know instead of whatever some idiots online say is "bestest" according to their inner autist. They might be "bestest" when you have 5+ years of experience and a worked-out technique. Do you have 5+ years to learn how to use the tool to its full potential?

Your biggest challenge will be finishing the project and your obstacles will be limited funds (how long before we go broke?), feature creep/scope and unexpected shit that seems obvious in hindsight but you forgot about at some earlier stage when it was easier to implement/change it.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
Engines? I've tried a few and quit them all. I spent more time trying to get into the head of the author/s than making anything and that's not fun.

 

shihonage

Subscribe to my OnlyFans
Patron
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
7,161
Location
location, location
Bubbles In Memoria
Engines? I've tried a few and quit them all. I spent more time trying to get into the head of the author/s than making anything and that's not fun.



Yep. Working around "design conventions" in someone else's abstraction is not fun. It's all just part of the process of making all games look and feel the same, as not only the visuals are processed through a limiting conveyor pipeline of 3D accelerators, the gameplay itself is filtered through this meatgrinder that is a fully premade engine.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,347
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Engines? I've tried a few and quit them all. I spent more time trying to get into the head of the author/s than making anything and that's not fun.



I can agree with this partially, because every fucking piece of software including engines has at least one thing that evokes the classic "what the fuck were they thinking?" question and the "optimal" way of working for one person can be very inefficient other people. Still even the guy in the video says that it is more efficient to use an off the shelf engine, although he is generalizing too much and assuming too many things are true. It all depends on the project, knowledge of tools (or how effective is your use of them) and resources.

In the end like with all business decisions it boils down to what you trade off for what. How many manhours do you spend on developing, debugging and maintaining your own engine vs the license cost of available engines? Will you spend less time customizing (or crudely hacking) an off the shelf product to fit your project or building the needed functionality into your own engine?

If Awor in this case already got into the mind of the engine's creator it and the engine provides him with everything he needs, it would be wasteful to go with something else. Likewise if Awor already has made his own engine that he is perfectly sure can support his first project he should use that, as learning something else from scratch while he is living off a government grant and savings would waste too much time. This is why I wrote he should use one he is familiar with.
 
Last edited:

potatojohn

Arcane
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
2,646
Same as all programming really

Any decent PC, preferably a desktop

A 4k monitor

A whiteboard or tablet for drawing diagrams, etc

Good (comfortable, isolating) headphones

Egg timer so you remember to get up and walk every 45 minutes

Foot pedals, for that optimal emacs experience

An industrial supply of coffee

A notebook to keep career ideas in for when your game inevitably fails
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,357
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
As in to be able to release a game and be able to reasonably expect that it will work on people's computers? I assume game devs usually have a few systems for testing?

What kind of software/hardware is useful?

Let's say I could get a dotation for starting a company, what should I buy for the best start?
Actually, it can be counter productive to have too good a rig:
When I tested my game on my desktop, everything went smoothly, but the trivial lighting shaders made the game stutter on my laptop (which happens to be the machine you'll demo your game on...).
Procs have not evolved much over the last few years. I was thinking about upgrading, and noticed I would get little by getting a better CPU.

You should ask other to do the testing for you. There are so many configuration problems that can arise that you cannot expect to test everything by yourself.
A good GPU is good thoug, because it makes it easier to play R&D other games, or if you intend to have a lot of computation on it (mostly if you do Machine Learning, but you can just pay Amazon Web Services or OVH for that).

For me, the only noticeable improvement was upgrading memory. Going from 4 to 12 GB made texture packing much smoother (I went from 4h to 20 minutes...).
Regarding the softwares, it really depend on what you are working with (2D, 3D, engine...), so it is hard to tell.

For 2D, we went with Gimp, Photoshop, Graphics Gale, and Texture Packer.

Regarding software development, I use Moai with vim and visual studio, and Tiled for level edition so it represented a grand total of 0.
 

Nathaniel3W

Rockwell Studios
Patron
Developer
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
1,234
Location
Washington, DC
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
The software I use:

Coding: Visual Studio, and occasionally Notepad++ when I want to make a quick change to a config file or something without opening my whole Visual Studio project.

Menus: Flash Professional. It's now known as Adobe Animator, but I use an old version because I'm working in an old engine (Unreal 3).

3D: Blender

Sound editing: Adobe Audition. I use this to loop music and make new sound effects.

Making and fixing textures: Photoshop and GIMP. I actually do use both. I really prefer how GIMP handles masks and transparencies. And when saving png files, GIMP preserves the RGB information when alpha is 0, whereas Photoshop automatically inserts white whenever alpha is 0. I hate that.

Particle spritesheets: After Effects. I only recently started using this, and I am amazed at how versatile it is. After learning After Effects, I instantly improved all of my particle effects.

Trailers, gifs, and other animated thingies: Make fancy transitions and special effects in After Effects. I record voiceovers and do noise reduction in Audition. (That noise reduction is like magic.) I assemble the video and do most of the major editing in Premiere. I export an mp4 and then import it into Photoshop for making gifs. I compress the gifs at ezgif.com.

So basically I guess I use Adobe's creative suite just about everywhere in my workflow. It's not so much that I know they have the best software. It's just that I already paid for Photoshop and Flash, figured I may as well upgrade to the full suite for the same price, and then use the tools I already have access to.
 
Unwanted

tmux

Unwanted
Joined
Oct 27, 2017
Messages
242
Operating system: Your favourite Linux distro. That's the system made by developers, for developers. Windows is a joke that lacks the most basic tools and wouldn't be suitable even without being infested with spyware.

Software: A text editor (vim/emacs), g++, gdb. GIMP/Krita for graphics.

Graphics API: Vulkan or OpenGL. The only multiplatform APIs that are guaranteed to work across multiple platforms. DirectX is non-compatible crap that exists to further Microsoft's hegemony and anyone developing for it should be flayed publicly and burned.

Development tools: git for version control, Travis CI for continuous deployment.

Hardware: The biggest ultrawide monitor you can get. The best GPU you can get. At least an i5-tier processor with Intel ME stripped out. 8+GB of RAM.

If you develop for Macs, stay away from the "App Store", the moment your game is on there, it's no longer yours, it has to conform to Apple's rules. Feel free to use virtual machines to build and deploy your project on other platforms to give users on non-free operating systems a taste of freedom, but please develop with GNU/Linux in mind first.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
Still even the guy in the video says that it is more efficient to use an off the shelf engine, although he is generalizing too much and assuming too many things are true. It all depends on the project, knowledge of tools (or how effective is your use of them) and resources.
You just saw one video of his. He doesn't recommend any engines. He would find something seriously wrong in all of them and slam them, especially ones that use C++. Old school dudes like him make their own engines fast, with just what they need in them for the game they are working on, because a) they have the skill, and b) they care about the quality of what they put out.

Haven't we noticed that the guys who aren't doing so well from the Kickstarter RPG renaissance, are the ones that used off the shelf engines like Unity. Welp, we did try to warn them! Oh well! The only one that is doing extremely well abandoned off the shelf engines some time ago, because the poor quality results they were getting was holding their company back.

As for Awor, if the govt is giving him free moneyz to advance the SJW agenda, he should make it as easy as possible on himself. I wouldn't bother with 3D as it is too expensive to get content for and is harder in every way, and a 3D game won't get you more sales than 2D, if the end result looks "indie". In the case of a 2D game no engine is necessary and the hardware you need to make the game can be dirt cheap. If you aren't interested in writing your own 2D routines and platform code like the guy in the video does (I'm sure not) , just use the most used cross platform lib.

But hey, ya'll are going to do what you wanna do, so who cares. lol
 
Last edited:

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
1,866,294
Location
Anytown, USA
So Davaris just out of curiosity... what language(s?) and/or libs would you recommend for a 2d graphics game?
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
So Davaris just out of curiosity... what language(s?) and/or libs would you recommend for a 2d graphics game?

I can only speak for myself, but now I would use C and watch the Handmade Hero series to learn his method. If I could use the HMH lib I would use it, but its not allowed to be used until 2 years after he releases his game which is too long. Since that is not avalable I would go with RayLib or SDL2.

http://www.raylib.com/
Raylib is very new though.
 
Last edited:

Magitex

Educated
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
62
Also you should have an engine you are actually familiar with that is suited to your project. That's the most important thing, unless you want to sperg and write your own for years while you slowly go broke and die of hunger because you spend time writing basic features for everything.

The worst thing you can do in the middle of a project, besides scrapping everything and starting over, is switching engines and porting everything to a new one.

Graphics software depends on who the artist is and what he is used to. You want art to be made efficiently as that either translates to more time for coding (if you are a one man dev team) or into more art assets.

In general, avoid learning shit from scratch so for now pick tools you or the other people know instead of whatever some idiots online say is "bestest" according to their inner autist. They might be "bestest" when you have 5+ years of experience and a worked-out technique. Do you have 5+ years to learn how to use the tool to its full potential?

Your biggest challenge will be finishing the project and your obstacles will be limited funds (how long before we go broke?), feature creep/scope and unexpected shit that seems obvious in hindsight but you forgot about at some earlier stage when it was easier to implement/change it.
This sounds about right, but adding some extra comments:

By the sound of things, OP is not sufficiently familiar enough with the development process to be efficient, so OP should take extra care with research and extracting money out of said investor. If the intention is to jump into indie dev with limited knowledge, you will need a pretty serious backer in terms of investment (because it's unlikely you will be able to estimate costs realistically, or account for a variety of common pitfalls). If money is covered, then you can hire someone who knows the relevant engine to create what you want (maybe?).

Hardware & Software: both questions are fairly irrelevant simply because these are dictated by the type of software you are making.

Photoshop is basically the industry standard in texturing & 2D art, but indies will often use GIMP and a variety of other free software, so it's really about if you want to cough up money for the license or work using free tools.
3D modelling it's probably a bit more of a mix up and you can get by using Blender. I'm not sure about the 3DSmax options these days, but they're no doubt horribly overpriced.
Both things depend on whom is making assets, since if you throw someone experienced but has never used these apps, they will probably not produce anything useful making a pre-emptive choice moot.

As for going without an engine, the key to getting out a finished product is to take as many shortcuts as possible, so creating your own is out of the question. People who create their own engines number in the few and said few are unlikely to release anything in a timely manner. Indie development usually means a very limited budget, so go in with an iron fist and identify the fastest path to getting things happening. If you can beat out a prototype and get the attention of the public with it you have already won at life. Conversely if you are re-writing systems or writing boiler plate code then you are losing development time and money; using something like Unity or UE will be infinitely quicker for development, especially in regards to cross-platform games. Both are quite capable of producing a huge variety of games and help and libraries are abundant for these.

When you have a project that does more than vomit fire when you compile it, then you'll probably get by with public testing for compatibility. It wouldn't hurt to pick up a laptop or tablet (if those are part of your intended release targets, choose them wisely), but you'll never be able to cover the majority of hardware combinations either way.

The road is pretty long and not particularly profitable for most, so it's critical that you know every aspect of development before you start and why exactly your game is going to be more popular than the 2000-odd new releases on steam at any given time.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,104
Location
デゼニランド
I would go with RayLib
I've never heard of this one and gave it a try for an hour or so. Looks promising and there are enough examples to see what you can already do with it, not to mention access to the source.
Also OpenGL 1.1 support and painless setup. NP++ feels good and lightning fast after several years of VS2015.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom