Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

If someone is determined to play this way however, I don't see why I should go through much trouble to stop them. For me this problem falls into "it's their game, let them play it".

That's because you appear to be incapable of looking at this from the designer's PoV. Again:

Premise: Players respond to incentives.
Premise: A game that rewards boring behaviour is a boring game, and conversely, a game that rewards fun behaviour is a fun game.
Conclusion: Therefore, the designer should strive to design games that reward fun behaviour and discourage boring behaviour.

The player is free to play the game however he wants. The designer, however, should set up the incentives in the game so he doesn't nudge the player towards boring behaviours.

I honestly don't see what's the least bit controversial about this. Nor why it's so hard to understand; the "they paid for it, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it like they want?" irrelevance comes up time and again.

 

[FreeKaner]

I don't know what's so confusing about Josh trying to avoid rewarding tedium.

 

[TT1]

Bound Teams With Obsidian Entertainment and NY Times Bestselling Fantasy Author Richard Knaak

[This unedited press release is made available courtesy of Gamasutra and its partnership with notable game PR-related resource GamesPress.]

[17-October-2017]

LAGUNA BEACH, Calif., Oct. 17, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, mobile fiction platform Bound has announced a collaboration with video game company Obsidian Entertainment to publish a novella and a series of ongoing digital fiction stories set in the Pillars of Eternity universe as promised in the Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Fig campaign. New York Times and USA Today bestselling fantasy author Richard Knaak has been signed to pen the original stories.

"How lucky are we?" said Matthew Hannus, cofounder of Bound. "We feel very fortunate to be able to bring legendary game maker Obsidian Entertainment together with master storyteller Richard Knaak."

"A big thank you again to our incredible backers, who have made it possible for us to tell even more stories within the Pillars of Eternity universe," says Obsidian Entertainment CEO, Feargus Urquhart. "As a huge reader of both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, it's personally exciting to me to have an author of such talent working in one of our worlds."

Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire is a role-playing video game developed by Obsidian Entertainment, and published by Versus Evil, that takes place in the fantasy world of Eora. Players will track a god across the Deadfire archipelago as their decisions change the story and lead to multiple outcomes. The original Pillars of Eternity received critical acclaim for its expansive world and immersive writing. The sequel raised $4.4m on crowdfunding website Fig and will be released on Windows PC, Mac and Linux in early 2018.

The first novella will launch later this year with more ongoing stories to follow. Those who backed at the appropriate tier during the Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire campaign will also receive the novella as a PDF and on Bound. Bound is available for free in the iOS App Store and will release on Android soon.

About Obsidian Entertainment

Obsidian Entertainment specializes in creating the world's most engrossing interactive role-playing games including Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: The Stick of Truth, Alpha Protocol, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, and the original Pillars of Eternity. Founded by veterans of Black Isle Studios, with roots in Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, Fallout, and Fallout 2. Obsidian continues its commitment to deliver fans and newcomers alike the most compelling RPGs they can imagine. Currently, Obsidian's trailblazing developers are hard at work on a host of new projects, including the recently successful crowdfunding title, Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire. Learn more at https://www.obsidian.net/

About Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Inspired by classic titles such as Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment, Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire improves upon the rich narrative, beautiful environments, and intricate, tactical combat that made the original a fan and critical sensation. With Deadfire, Obsidian will take players on a second fantastic journey to the world of Eora, this time to the vast, uncharted, Deadfire Archipelago where they will fight for their souls as they hunt down a god.

About Richard A. Knaak

Richard A. Knaak is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of The Legend of Huma, WoW: Wolfheart, and nearly 50 other novels and numerous short stories, including works in such series as Warcraft, Diablo, Dragonlance, Age of Conan, the Iron Kingdoms, and his own popular Dragonrealm. He has scripted comics and manga, such as the top-selling Sunwell trilogy, and has also written background material for games. His works have been published worldwide in many languages.

Currently splitting his time between Chicago and Arkansas, he can be reached through his website: http://www.richardallenknaak.com/where often more immediate information about his work can be found. Please also join him on Facebook at @richardallenknaak and on Twitter at ‏@RichardAKnaak.

About Versus Evil

Versus Evil, LLC is a US based independent video game publisher behind critically acclaimed and award winning video games such as The Banner Saga series, Antihero, Guild of Dungeoneering, Let them Come and Armikrog. Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire will add to a solid release line up which also includes the eagerly awaited and final installation in the Banner Saga trilogy, Banner Saga 3, BAFTA Games award winner At Sundown and mobile game, Like-A-Boss. Publishing games on all major mobile, PC and console platforms, Versus Evil works with development studios in North America, South America, and Europe.

For more information visit http://versusevil.com

About Bound

Bound brings great storytelling to time-constrained fiction fans in a compelling new mobile format. The app features serialized stories of all types but specifically focuses on sci-fi, fantasy, and thrillers—you know, the good stuff. Bound features content from partners like Neal Stephenson and Eliot Peper. Founded by game industry veterans and based in Southern California. Learn more at http://www.getbound.io

Media Contact:

Matthew Hannus

424-272-5847

180922@email4pr.com

View original content with multimedia:http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...g-fantasy-author-richard-knaak-300537781.html

SOURCE Bound

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/pres..._Bestselling_Fantasy_Author_Richard_Knaak.php

 

[Infinitron]

Beta news in the next update: https://www.fig.co/campaigns/deadfire?update=534#updates

Update #41 - From the Feed of the Director Part IV
POSTED: 10/17/2017
Greetings! Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Producer, Katrina Garsten, is here to not only help us dive into what Game Director, Josh Sawyer, has been putting up on his social media, but also has an update on some merchandise offered to Backers. We'll get to the merchandise after the video, so for now, let's have Katrina take it away!



Thanks for the video, Katrina! But that isn't all from our awesome Producer. She's back to let us know about some of the rewards you can get when you pledge for Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire.

In our first bit of exciting news, Obsidian is proud to announce that mobile fiction platform Bound and NY Times bestselling fantasy author Richard Knaak have partnered with us to publish and write the Pillars of Eternity novella! Author Richard Knaak has written for such series as Warcraft, Diablo, Dragonlance, Age of Conan, and Iron Kingdoms universes, as well as his own popular Dragonrealm. Backers will be receiving a pdf of the novella on the Backer Portal when available, while the mobile version will be released in chapters on Bound afterwards.

In other news, production for physical rewards is underway. We're having samples created and will move on to mass production later this year. Obsidian is happy to announce that Novobox is assisting us with the majority of our physical item creation and packaging. You can already see a sample of their work, the adorable space pig plushie, in our crowdfunding video! We're also excited to show you the final poses and 3D images of our Od Nua statue and 28mm miniatures. The images we're sharing are the concept art that will be used to make the items, and not indicative of the final product.

Our Od Nua sculpture, created by talented Character Artist, Dimitri Berman!

28mm miniature pewter figurines, also sculpted by Dimitri Berman and posed by Animator, Seth McCaughey.

As we continue to finalize artwork and get samples created, we will share photos with you every step of the way.

--Katrina Garsten, Producer, Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Thanks, Katrina! If you were waiting to see what the physical items were before pledging for them, remember that you have until October 31st to upgrade or get those pledges in!

We also want to remind you all that the DLC survey we currently have out will be closing this Friday, October 20th. The survey doesn't take long to complete and will help inform us greatly on how we can approach DLC for our games. We appreciate the time given to the survey greatly!

Lastly, the deluxe edition of Pillars of Eternity: Lords of the Eastern Reach, the card game based on the Pillars universe, is on sale exclusively at the Zero Radius Games website. The regular edition is sold out and only a few copies of the deluxe edition are available, now at 35% off! Get one while they last!

Stay tuned for an update with information on our upcoming backer beta. Until next time!

Be sure to join the conversation for this update on our forums. If you missed the last update on multiclassing and subclassing, check it out here.

 

[AwesomeButton]

If someone is determined to play this way however, I don't see why I should go through much trouble to stop them. For me this problem falls into "it's their game, let them play it".

That's because you appear to be incapable of looking at this from the designer's PoV. Again:

Premise: Players respond to incentives.
Premise: A game that rewards boring behaviour is a boring game, and conversely, a game that rewards fun behaviour is a fun game.
Conclusion: Therefore, the designer should strive to design games that reward fun behaviour and discourage boring behaviour.

The player is free to play the game however he wants. The designer, however, should set up the incentives in the game so he doesn't nudge the player towards boring behaviours.

I honestly don't see what's the least bit controversial about this. Nor why it's so hard to understand; the "they paid for it, why shouldn't they be allowed to play it like they want?" irrelevance comes up time and again.

That's because you appear to be incapable of spotting the inconsistency in an argument.

So, what - backtracking is ok, we leave it in PoE, but rest-spamming is "boring behavior", let's not "nudge" towards it. You logic is all broken.

It took me a while to stop laughing at your conviction that you know everything, and everyone else are dummies that are waiting to be schooled by you.

You toss around "fun" and "boring" as if they are some defined absolutes, in an attempt to sound "scientific". That's not even worth addressing, man. You know you can do better than that.

Go take a MOOC in gamification or game design before spewing nonsense like that, especially from the high horse of "I know how game designers reason". Just to get a general understanding of what constitutes a game, for example. Then we can talk again, alright?

 

[Prime Junta]

So, what - backtracking is ok, we leave it in PoE, but rest-spamming is "boring behavior", let's not "nudge" towards it. You logic is all broken.

:sigh:

One more time: no, backtracking is not fun, and Josh has said that the restricted camping failed to accomplish its intended purpose, which is why he changed it for P2. It was a design mistake that he has acknowledged. The one point in your list that you got right, remember?

(Also, I only treat dummies as dummies. If you feel I'm treating you as one, draw your own conclusions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

 

[AwesomeButton]

So, what - backtracking is ok, we leave it in PoE, but rest-spamming is "boring behavior", let's not "nudge" towards it. You logic is all broken.

:sigh:

One more time: no, backtracking is not fun, and Josh has said that the restricted camping failed to accomplish its intended purpose, which is why he changed it for P2. It was a design mistake that he has acknowledged. The one point in your list that you got right, remember?

(Also, I only treat dummies as dummies. If you feel I'm treating you as one, draw your own conclusions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

How can I draw a conclusion without you there telling me which is the right conclusion from the game designer PoV

The only conclusion you are leading towards is that you are pompous ass with a delusion of incorrigibility.

Nothing you say will be taken seriously until you persuade me otherwise, no matter all the chest-puffing. Save it.

All my points were "right" because these are all paraphrases of arguments made by Josh during PoE's development, and it's pretty clear how some of them contradict others.

You admit allowing backtracking without any cost or risk is wrong, at least. I say that random, or Darklands-style attacks on rest attempts, to prevent rest spamming, are ok to have, you say they are not, because some players will try to savescum them (repeating Josh's argument basically?). Oh well, I can say they are ok to have, because other players will not savescum, by the same logic.

Your answer was to suddenly invent an authority which says what is "fun" and what is "boring", and proclaim yourself the only one enlightened enough to be able to see from the correct point of view. Not really a high point of debate techniques or reasoning.

I still haven't seen an attempt at a solid argument on why should a prohibition on rest-spamming through random attacks not be implemented. If you give it a try, I will be interested in seeing it.

 

[BilboBaggins]

The 60's baby, YEAH!

 

[Quillon]

Heh. They re-did pommel stirke animation after I complained a bit Still, I'd have preferred holding the weapon horizontal and hit with it like a punch, anyways at least they are listening...I think :D

 

[Prime Junta]

Your answer was to suddenly invent an authority which says what is "fun" and what is "boring",

I don't have to invent it. It's already there. The authority is whoever designed the game. Deciding what's fun and what's not, and then giving opportunities and incentives to do fun things is the designer's job.

(Thought that was kinda obvious, but perhaps you believe games just sort of ... grow organically, from mulch made from composted obsolete D&D manuals, or something. At this point that wouldn't surprise me.)

I still haven't seen an attempt at a solid argument on why should a prohibition on rest-spamming through random attacks not be implemented. If you give it a try, I will be interested in seeing it.

Because save-scumming in order to avoid them is easy, obvious, rote, and boring?

Or, if you don't save-scum for whatever reason, because they discourage you from pushing yourself to the limit, since you'll have to allow for the possibility of being jumped when you do rest and have to keep a little reserve for that?

 

[Lacrymas]

They slightly changed Ydwin's portrait, she's back to waifu-bait. Kind of. She has an underbite now.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Is it just me or this video is weirdly lit? Is she trying to hide her wrinkles? Somebody EHNANCE.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Wasn't the point of the sidekicks to lighten the mood relative to the "why-so-serious" companions? They just can't help themselves. Here's hoping Konstantin = nu-Korgan...

 

[Lacrymas]

Wasn't the point of the sidekicks to lighten the mood relative to the "why-so-serious" companions?

Uhm, no? Where are you even getting this from, lol? They aren't superhero sidekicks from the Golden Age of comics.

 

[TT1]

Still no cloud shadows







:ehue:

 

[AwesomeButton]

Your answer was to suddenly invent an authority which says what is "fun" and what is "boring",

I don't have to invent it. It's already there. The authority is whoever designed the game. Deciding what's fun and what's not, and then giving opportunities and incentives to do fun things is the designer's job.

Wrong! The designer doesn't get to say what is fun or boring for others. With designing the game, he makes a proposal, and it's the individual player who decides what is fun and what's not. You are the ultimate authority on what is fun for you at any given moment.

I still haven't seen an attempt at a solid argument on why should a prohibition on rest-spamming through random attacks not be implemented. If you give it a try, I will be interested in seeing it.

Because save-scumming in order to avoid them is easy, obvious, rote, and boring?

Son, I am dissapoint. Repeating the same lame argument over and over again won't make it any more credible, just like reloading the same savegame 20 times won't make the bad guys go away when you try to rest.

Maybe the fault lies with me, I should have explained better what problems I see with it:
1. With this argument, you make the error of taking for granted that of all possible solutions to the annoyance of respawns, the player will choose to savescum. Nothing guarantees you that. Instead, he can do a number of other things, among them - refraining from resting, which is the very point of these respawns being there. After you make 10 attempts to savescum and you always get respawns, you will give it up and will be less probable to try it again. The more persuaded you are that another attempt to rest will result in a respawn, the less probable you are to try it again. It has been done in enough games already and it works.

2. If the player considers something boring, let him not do it. But if he wants to save scum, you can't stop him from save scumming. Like I said above, the designer does not get to dictate what is fun or what fun is. Ask Josh, he knows.

3. By virtue of the fact that it's the designer who gets to give or not give savescumming a chance of success, savescumming is avoidable without having to altogether remove enemy spawns on rest. Shall I spell it out? "He will savescum until no mob spawns when he rests" presupposes that the designer designed the rules in such a way that savescumming is possible. This does not have to be so. When you are the designer, you are free to decide if the mob will appear in 10 out of 20 or in 19 out of 20 cases. You can easily make the mob spawning not a matter of savescumming but a certainty. Like I said in 1. - when the player has certainty that the mob will spawn, he will not savescum. If you as a designer think that savescumming should be discouraged, then configure the chance of spawns so that the player will not savescum.

Or, if you don't save-scum for whatever reason, because they discourage you from pushing yourself to the limit, since you'll have to allow for the possibility of being jumped when you do rest and have to keep a little reserve for that?

This argument is somehow even weaker than the previous one.
1. What you describe as "having to allow for the possibility of being jumped and keeping a little reserve" is called managing your resources and thinking ahead about possible risks, and it is a good thing. A good kind of uncertainty to have in a game.

2. On the other hand the process of "crawl the dungeon until "at the limit" - backtrack - rest and stock up - crawl the dungeon until "at the limit" again" is known as grinding and is generally seen as a bad thing. Terms like "easy, obvious, rote, and boring" come to mind. You can't mean that you prefer grinding to managing long term resources? I should not judge you if you like to grind in this way, though I myself don't like to.

I think I've proven beyond doubt that:
1. enemy spawns on rest don't have to mean savescumming, and
2. that they are make grinding more difficult by adding risk to it, which is otherwise lacking.

I would have preferred a more complex system of encounters in order to add to the uncertainty for the player, require from the player to manage his resources and provide for unexpected occurrences.
1. I would add a tracking algorithm that throws mobs at the player if he keeps going back and forth through the same few areas.
2. On resting in wilderness, I'd inform the player of the chance that he would be attacked during resting.
3. In case of an encounter during resting, I'd take the Darklands approach - allow the player to avoid the combat, but cancel his rest. Further attempts to rest would always have the same result - an encounter would fire, and the player would again have a chance to avoid it but cancel his rest.
4. If the player chooses to take the encounter and fight it out, I'd allow him one rest with no chance of an encounter.

I think this is both savescum-proof, and gives you the advantages of the uncertainty of resting in the wilderness. What do you think?

 

[AwesomeButton]

They slightly changed Ydwin's portrait, she's back to waifu-bait. Kind of. She has an underbite now.

Do you know whose portrait also looks like waifu-bait? Mmmmhmmm.....

Edit:
Anyway, they have turned the frown into a smile (they are reading us!) and the ear is longer. Not sure about the underbite, I think it was there.

I liked the frowning version better though.

Wasn't the point of the sidekicks to lighten the mood relative to the "why-so-serious" companions? They just can't help themselves. Here's hoping Konstantin = nu-Korgan...

I agree. The world desperately needs a new non-fag, non-Tony Soprano dwarf companion character. Like D:OS 2's Beast I guess.

 

[Iznaliu]

I liked the frowning version better though.

I don't think people want to stare at a frown for what could be 100+ hours of gameplay.

 

[Lacrymas]

She's a bit too derpy now, kind of "good-hearted Downie" look.

 

[Grotesque]

Anyway, they have turned the frown into a smile (they are reading us!) and the ear is longer.

She's a bit too derpy now, kind of "good-hearted Downie" look.

Oh, the quality shit I've missed in this fuckin thread!

 

[Quillon]

Heh. They re-did pommel stirke animation after I complained a bit Still, I'd have preferred holding the weapon horizontal and hit with it like a punch, anyways at least they are listening...I think :D

Katrina says it got new "realistic" animations but I went back and watched the vid Josh posted again; same animation as I suspected. Guess they didn't re-do it(and they are not listening ffs) Was pommel strike a fighter ability without a special animation in Pillars 1 or something?

Spoiler

 

[Ivan]

just realizing that Katrina is Josh in female form. the same joke delivery and all.

 

[Prime Junta]

What do you think?

First off, about the designer as arbiter -- I thought it was self-evident that players can disagree; that's why different people like different games. But I guess with you I should have spelled out that too.

Second, you're still either unable to understand or intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Here:

On the other hand the process of "crawl the dungeon until "at the limit" - backtrack - rest and stock up - crawl the dungeon until "at the limit" again" is known as grinding and is generally seen as a bad thing. Terms like "easy, obvious, rote, and boring" come to mind. You can't mean that you prefer grinding to managing long term resources? I should not judge you if you like to grind in this way, though I myself don't like to.

This is just so nonsensical I'm not even going to try to correct it, I'm just leaving it in as an example of your functional illiteracy/bad-faith argumentation.

Here's another nice one:

2. that they are make grinding more difficult by adding risk to it, which is otherwise lacking.

Yeah, you have -- if you've redefined "grinding" as "limiting rests as far as possible," which is kind of like the opposite of grinding.

Your proposed solution? Does the opposite of what's intended. A player that limits rests will face that spawn when weak, which will lead to canceling the rest and trekking back to a safe area (degenerate) or save-scumming (if the RNG allows it, also degenerate). Conversely, a player who rests after every fight will face that spawn near full strength, easily beat it, and then get a guaranteed uninterrupted rest. That's also rote and boring. Either way it's worse than plain ol' unlimited resting, which at least leaves open the possibility for players to self-impose resting restrictions should they choose to play it that way.

So don't quit your day job.

By the way, I'm surprised you haven't discussed the P2 solution by the way, which I think is pretty clever. In P2, you need food in order to rest. There are no carry limits to food. However, better food gives better resting bonuses. Meaning, if you rest after every fight, you will be going with base bonuses most of the time because you'll run out of good food; if you limit resting, you'll have higher bonuses most of the time because you'll have good food to spare.

Spoiler

I've been proceeding from the assumption that we want to find an solution which encourages players to limit resting, without encouraging degenerate strategies like save-scumming or trekking back and forth between the dungeon and the inn. We agree about that, right? (If not, we've been talking past one another and it's no surprise this is going nowhere.)

 

[Jenkem]

is there a way to use that red headed sidekick's portrait for the main character? I want to be able to role play as Dave Mustaine

 

[axedice]

just realizing that Katrina is Josh in female form. the same joke delivery and all.