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Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
B - merchant, but open to suggestions
A - merchant heading toward a warzone should have guards. They can play the par.
A - let us not leave assets behind. We may need him even if it may prove costly later.
 
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Important question, MercantileInterest

"This second letter? Who wrote it?" The agent paces between the two captives.

"Maven Black-Briar." That much is true. "An influential merchant from a powerful family in Skyrim. The Dark Brotherhood didn't answer the summons. I think they've gone extinct in Cyrodiil but they still work their murders in the north. She's helping me find them."

Which letter of the three we found in the box would that be, exactly?

---

Maven is the real power here but we need to be careful. With the Stormcloaks waging a losing war on two fronts, I would assume that their soldiers and agents here are probably on edge. If we go straight to Maven we might very well look extremely suspicious. We should take care to maintain our cover, especially since the Oculati are not particularly subtle.

I think figuring out how Maven can help us and what she wants in exchange should be dealt with soon, since we don't have much of a plan. But we must approach her in a way that does draw not risk to either of us. Placing her in danger by drawing suspicion to her would only piss her off, and we should take care not to draw suspicion to ourselves either.

Keep in mind that Maven is involved with Motierre although we do not know if she knows who we are or even cares about our rivalry with him. Still, we should also try to approach her in a way that does not expose us to harm from her as well.

1F: Mingle with the merchants to maintain our cover, then subtly and carefully approach Maven Black-Briar, preferably in a manner that does not draw risk to either one of us. We do not identify ourselves as DC to Maven either in case Motierre warned her about us.

Again, let me know if this is too much. I was thinking that "Mingling with the merchants" would not be going as far as actually getting to know them or trying to extract information from/ingratiate ourselves with them.
 
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If I had to guess, the inkeeper is shitting himself because he agreed to help fuck us over before finding out that we are somehow involved with the Black-Briars.

A seems like the blind idiot choice. Or perhaps that's just what Merc wants us to think.

I think both B and C have merits.

C is the most obvious decision here: we investigate the most obvious threat to us immediately. Which is well and good, but there are a few things that bother me. Firstly, obvious choices are not always the best ones (Remember Motierre?) and secondly sneaking around at night and investigating people doesn't sound terribly subtle. If the enemy is trying to feel us out, perhaps anticipating that we are going to attempt some skulldaggery, we might be revealing ourselves way too early.

On the other hand, B is a shot in the dark. However, there is one thing that makes me think that the Dunmer actually has secrets to tell us and that's the fact that she fucked off as soon as the burly man came near. It suggests to me that she doesn't want to be seen talking to us (or it could be a power dynamics thing, I guess). Plus, going to see a prostitute is infinitely more subtle than C.

We've played things pretty safe for now, so perhaps its time to take a chance? Plus a talking lizard just threatened to rape us, and getting some dunmer poon could count as exposure therapy for the purposes of recovering from that trauma. I'm tentatively voting B>C
 

Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
A - Doing nothing should help sell our cover story. I'm assuming we'll be sleeping light and with a weapon at hand. The Dunmer ladies could have info and they could be a trap. They should still be around later. Whores can wait. The Burly man needs to be looked into, but skulking in the night this early in our subterfuge isn't good.
 
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Welp, I tried.

All I wanted was for there to be

POLES IN HOLES
O c=======3
L c=======3
E c=======3
S c=======3

I c=======3
N c=======3

H c=======3
O c=======3
L c=======3
E c=======3
SELOH NI SELOP
 
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1: Knifed by the agents of the Penitus Occulatus. You die sad and alone, far from your homeland with a gutter for you grave. And cold, because Skyrim is painfully cold for a lizardman.

2-5: Hauled off to Mistveil keep and imprisoned for an indeterminate time.

6: Escape! When the new merchant's bodyguards dive into the canal, you swim away fast as possible. You are alive but lurking in the gutters under the city.

Ancient argonian proverb: to steal, to drink, to get locked up; to steal, to drink, to get locked up; now that's romantic!
 
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I always wanted to be a retarded mage who gets shot up by arrows and set on fire.

heh lets go cuck some people /evil retard who immediately gets paralyzed from the neck down in the following paragraph
 
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Very difficult situation indeed

The question is which option actually gives us a reasonable path towards achieving our goal? Obviously in both cases we have quite a task ahead of us.

Taking control of the city before the Westerosi ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL would, I imagine, involve focusing on direct, immediate defense. Perhaps getting Maven to pull some strings, draw out the siege, get extra forces sent from Windhelm? This seems too simple and stupid, not even considering the great time it will take for the troops to get here. Maven probably doesn't have the connections to directly influence the movements of armies anyway, but perhaps emphasizing Riften as being very important to the mutual enrichment of herself and the Stormcloak leadership to her contacts in Windhelm could work.

On the other hand, waiting for the enemy to take the city would lead to a situation akin to guerilla warfare. Perhaps by laying low and pulling strings from the shadows with Maven's help we can make the city so uncooperative if not hostile that the Westerosi either 1. pack up and leave (won't happen, but...) 2. are weakened/sabotaged to the point where the Imperials can retake the city AND smash the Westerosi host AND don't have to deal with the stormfronters. Remember that the Westerosi are an incredibly long way away from home. Riften will not only be a foothold of the Westerosi army, it will be its life support. By influencing said life support, we might be able to squeeze this particular Westerosi force by the balls. The obvious flaw in this is that this extends the duration of our stay and therefore the chances of us getting discovered and killed.

It is also important to consider which plan Maven is more likely to agree with, as we kind of memed our way into relying on her. So we should consider the type of person that she is, including the information the thrashed dunmer prost gave us.

Tinfoil hat on: Varys sent us here with the knowledge that a quick attack on Riften was likely to entrap us.

What do you guys think? Currently leaning towards No but unsure what Maven gets out of it and therefore how we can convince her. Resisting an occupying force as a relatively public figure with a lot of influence is a great way to get executed somewhere very public. Perhaps she can appear cooperative to the Westerosi while using us as a proxy to do the opposite, and this kind of playing both sides/double-dealing could be very profitable to her.

I mean, her city - her primary sphere of influence, a place she is pretty much the de facto ruler of - is getting occupied by the Westerosi either way. Without legal recognition or Riften she is just a nuisance and a loose end for people like Motierre to dispose of. But she also seems to smart too believe that the city can be magically saved from the invading force that is due to arrive in such a short time.
 

Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Do we have a notion of what the populace would prefer? Would they chafe under the Westerosi yoke? More so than an that of the Empire's?
 
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This is a great post, Mercantile. Maybe have something like this during every major choice? To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the Fall of Tamriel but consolidating this kind of information is helpful.

Not really endorsing that approach, I was just spit-balling different directions we can take this. Maven is obviously in a very precarious position and I don't know what reasons she would have to support guerilla action besides maaaaaybe short-term gain (which is really nothing compared to the risk of losing everything she has)

Knowing the numbers makes Yes look more reasonable, though, so now I suppose I am leaning towards that.

Hmm. So perhaps we back the Stormcloak defense, but somehow engineer the outcome where the defenders are weakened to the point of the city being relatively easy to re-take by the Imperials? (of course this is MUCH easier said than done) Bearing in mind that without windhelm, the stormcloak forces are rather...finite. Except that is not entirely true. We should consider the possibility of Stormcloak survivors tricking down from Windhelm and obviously partizan action.

Actually, MercantileInterest - is our answer going to dictate our actual plan of action, or is this is just what we say to Maven? Important to clarify so that we can avoid another Amaund Motierre situation.
 
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Ok, so that would mean that my Yes from the previous post is actually a No. Organizing the defense probably makes more sense than pulling off a coup in a few days and then dealing with the Westerosi. Unless someone has a very clever plan for how we would go about that.

Remember that denying the Westerosi access to Riften is more important than securing it for the Empire.
 
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Looking at the map, the pass and bridge between Riften and Stendar's beacon looks to be a crucial chokepoint that can be used to wear the enemy down before they reach the walls. The defenders should fight conservatively, minimizing their losses, constantly leaving traps in the narrow pass behind them and stationing skirmishers, assassins, and archers in the mountains that wear the enemy down via hit and runs.

OR we somehow convince the Stormcloaks and/or the population that defeat is certain if the Westerosi reaches the gates. Perhaps we spread disinformation that the barbaric Westerosi and dunmer have access to the dark powers of the Old Gods and Daedra that would allow them to inflict a calamity upon the city if the witches within their ranks lay eyes upon it, or smash the walls with ease using hellish lighting or somesuch. Perhaps this would motivate the Stormcloaks to try to hold the bridge, then the pass with their lives and gets many of them slaughtered in the open (as opposed to a hold, harass, retreat approach as described above) so that people at home realize that their sole chance of survival (and more importantly the perservation of their faith, as the Talos-denying DIVINE TAMRIELIC EMPIRE is still preferable to the heathen Westerosi ((yeah, I get that the Seven and the Divines are supposed to be two interpretations of the same thing but this plan implies that we feed the people a contrary narrative, perhaps through Riften's religious authorities)) is to turn to the Empire's protection once more. Presumably the Stormcloak's effort buys us enough time to try and send a messenger towards the nearest Imperial Legion (or rather, to whichever person is able to give such a legion the order to march on Riften) and they arrive at the very last second to mop up the survivors, hopefully with magics and a hundred thousand lancers on white steeds, just like in Lord of the Rings.

Either way, scouts, reconnaissance teams, and even light cavalry equipped should be sent to the pass, perhaps on the other side of the river ASAP (going around the enemy force and to their rear). The former will gather intel while the latter can hit crucial locations such as supply trains or siege equipment - active paroling is a bold but effective strategy during a siege and these sorties should be launched frequently though in irregular intervals (to keep the enemy guessing) throughout the siege, perhaps until the enemy utterly surrounds the city.
 
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First of all, more information if you let us:

0. Besides the obvious eastern pass, are the two other paths (ones without roads and that appear to have some bodies of water in them, north of Black-Briar Lodge and south of Forelhost) passable by armies?

1. How much actual "authority" do we have over the Stormcloak defensive effort, bearing in mind that we are acting through proxies such as Maven? Is something like paragraphs 1 and 3 of my last post actually doable or are we limited to going after the 6 assets you outlined?

2. Ask the Maester what he knows about the local orc tribe. Do they have strong feelings one way or another over who rules Riften? Is there a substantial population of legionary veterans living there? What motivates them and what could motivate them to back an action against the Westerosi and/or Stormcloaks?

3. Ask the Maester about the Dawnguard. Are they the type to burn the learned men as witches or do they have respect for them? Do they mistrust the gov'ment as a proper right wing militia does or would they be open to cooperate with the Imperials? Any weaknesses, strengths, quirks, opportunities, etc? Also ask if there are any recent events that match their mythos that can be used for influence/fearmongering.

4. Ask the Maester about the Dorklight Tower. Specifically about how its place in the local mythos can be used for influence/fearmongering.

First steps (to be revised if/when questions above are answered):

1. Launch plans as per par1&3 of my last post: conservative defensive strategy starting with the bridge and retreating into the pass, with frequent sorties etc. Since we have 200 cavalry, perhaps send as much as 50 light horse for the latter purpose.

2. Send a Stormcloak messenger to Kai Wet-Pommel and try to recall him back to Riften. Overemphasize the Westerosi threat and that the cloaks cannot afford to lose another city, the Imperials be damned.

3. We together with Maester and one of the Occulati ride to Dayspring Canyon to parley with the Dawnguard. We show off the seal to explain that we are speaking with Imperial authority explain that there is a Westerosi force heading our way. Explain that King Robert is a tyrant who will certainly not tolerate independent armed groups such as the Dawnguard to operate in his realm and that therefore this is an existential fight for them as well as for the Empire. Promise to make give the Dawnguard official standing as Imperial Witch Hunters and given the full support and cooperation of Occulati intelligence network when Riften is in Imperial hands. Have them stay put until activated - maybe set up some sort of signal or swap information.

4. Meanwhile, send the other Occulati agent to the local orc tribe to parley. Somewhat stupid and cowardly? Try to sell them on the idea that Riften is about to be very weak and that, if Orcs help Empire attack it, they get first dibs on all the raping and pillaging. Maybe have the agent sell this idea to fellow veterans who would in turn sell it to the rest of the tribe?

5. Send a messenger to the Shield-Brethren and try to sell them on the threat of a Westerosi assault from the direction of Windhelm. Try to convince them to transition at least a thousand of their men to Mistwatch (this will hopefully safeguard us against a hypothetical attack from that direction while weakening the force stationed in that canyon)

6. Send the men to Faldar's Tooth. Getting flanked is for pussies.

Darklight Tower is obviously superstitious nonsense.

Abstracted long term plan: We help the Stormcloaks fight back the Westerosi but consolidate pro-Imperial assets (ideally consisting of legion remnant, orcs, Maven's criminal connections, Dawnguard, armed with the latter's tech) to mop-up and takeover or at least isolate Riften until a larger Imperial force gets here. Since I assume the city guard is on Maven's payroll, perhaps we can close the gates on the army in the final days of the siege (Visby, anyone?) and force the Westerosi and Stormcloaks into an open battle outside, then mop up with our assets? We'll see, I guess.

Anyone have criticism or ideas? Grimgravy ?
 

Grimgravy

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
I'm not sure about promising the Orcs or Dawnguard too much (I do want them on side just questioning how to get them there). The Dawnguard (assuming they stay hidden) would be in a good position to flank the invaders or cut their supply line once they lay siege to town. I'm on board with the rest.
 
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Allowing Orcs to sack the city would piss off Maven immensely, not to mention sow the seeds for future rebellion Empire, but I figure that it would also reduce Riften's population to the point where said rebellion would not happen for many generations. The former is an issue, but remember that Maven is working against the Emperor and/or with Mottierre. Perhaps we can arrange it so that the orcs target her during the sacking of the city.

As for Dawnguard, I think it comes down too how easily...guided their zeal is. If it can be steered towards political dissident, I think empowering them is a good thing. But if they are dead-set in their dogma, then they are probably better off dead.
 

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