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Fallout Fallout 2 is boring

Fallout 2 sucks?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.3%
  • No

    Votes: 117 80.7%

  • Total voters
    145

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,522
No, I'm not talking about easter egg random encounters, which are definitely not "minimum" compared to f2 btw. I'm talking about things like a robin hood character complete with ridicuously ott btitish accent and his own questline. And yeah, you need to factor in f2 being significantly much, MUCH bigger game if you don't want to look like an asshat in this discussion.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
What I would put in FO 1 from FO 2?

The thing is, a lot of those are small system improvements that were coupled with big drops in design quality. Take the ability to push companions back, for example. I played through Fallout 1 four or five times, and never had an issue with being blocked in by them (or maybe once in the vault hospital?). So yeah, people who played Fallout 1 know how important this improvement is - barely noticeable with good design. Fallout 2 added the ability to push them back, but that corresponded with them adding more areas where you would get stuck (since this no longer necessitated a reload). There was one corridor where I had to push my companion back ~12 times to get back out.

They make slight improvements to the combat system, and then add a ton of trash mob combat. The world's bigger, but it's also mostly forgettable (the first interesting location you reach is probably Vault City). You have political interactions between communities, but it's undermined because the communities themselves are nonsensical (New Reno doesn't feel like a real political entity). Or you have something like the car, which doesn't add anything to the gameplay and only screws up the atmosphere.

I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.

I love logical consistency on the Codex:

Guy A: Bethesda sucks for adding stupid dumb jokes into Fallout 3.
Guy B: Fallout 2 had stupid dumb jokes.
Guy A: The Fallout series has always been about stupid dumb jokes!

Anyway, it's insane to compare, say a 45 second encounter you get once in the game in Fallout 1 to an entire major hub like San Francisco being a joke.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
They make slight improvements to the combat system, and then add a ton of trash mob combat. The world's bigger, but it's also mostly forgettable (the first interesting location you reach is probably Vault City). Y
Disagree with that a lot...The world is definitely less forgettable than FO1's imo. And that is because the different locations are uniquely distinct between them, themed too. Arroyo, New Reno, Gecko, the Oil Rig, the Military Base, Vault City... all pretty distinct. Hell even Klamath gave this "westernish" vibe out.
 
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Black Angel

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Wonderland
No, I'm not talking about easter egg random encounters, which are definitely not "minimum" compared to f2 btw. I'm talking about things like a robin hood character complete with ridicuously ott btitish accent and his own questline. And yeah, you need to factor in f2 being significantly much, MUCH bigger game if you don't want to look like an asshat in this discussion.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_cultural_references -> 14 easter eggs
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_cultural_references -> 90+ easter eggs
Does that means Fallout 2 is nearly 10 times as big as Fallout 1? I'd say no, probably 4, maybe 5 times bigger if we include all the stuff restored by RP. Just because it's bigger game now, doesn't mean you can justify it having more stupid shit. Remember, the development of Fallout 2 was a rather messy one, since the veterans from Fallout 1 left halfway through (or was it at the beginning?), and the team weren't communicating well throughout the development.
 

Sykar

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No, I'm not talking about easter egg random encounters, which are definitely not "minimum" compared to f2 btw. I'm talking about things like a robin hood character complete with ridicuously ott btitish accent and his own questline. And yeah, you need to factor in f2 being significantly much, MUCH bigger game if you don't want to look like an asshat in this discussion.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_cultural_references -> 14 easter eggs
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_cultural_references -> 90+ easter eggs
Does that means Fallout 2 is nearly 10 times as big as Fallout 1? I'd say no, probably 4, maybe 5 times bigger if we include all the stuff restored by RP. Just because it's bigger game now, doesn't mean you can justify it having more stupid shit. Remember, the development of Fallout 2 was a rather messy one, since the veterans from Fallout 1 left halfway through (or was it at the beginning?), and the team weren't communicating well throughout the development.

Neither does it justify to pretend like FO 1 was some "pure" game and FO 2 was "just whacky shit". FO 1 had enough cultural reference for the mere 15-20 hours needed to complete it and therefore you can at best complain about too many references in FO 2 but you cannot claim like FO 1 did not have its fair share of them.
The short development cycle for me is more of benefit in the "what if" category for FO 2. What if they would have had the proper amount of time to finish the game, ironing the stuff out and trimming the fat for I am sure there are plenty of whacky ideas which did not make it into FO 1 while it seems there was no proper quality control for FO 2 to trim it and they just left most if it.
 

gruntar

Augur
Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
132
There are three great Fallouts: FO1, FO2 and FO:NV. Each with unique set of strengths and flaws, but all of them are fantastic games nevertheless, and quality gap between them and Bethesda crap is tremendous. I really don't get this boring repetitive faggots that are blowing flaws of each game way out of proportions to prove some childish point that "my fallout is better than your fallout". Especially shitting on Fallout 2 is tiresome with "muh cultural references ruining muh immershun" mantra being hammered over and over.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Fallout 1 is the best of them all but I'm glad 2 and New Vegas exist, they're good games too.

Fallout 3 is retarded shit that goes way way waaaay beyond FO2's zany pop culture references.

FO2 may have lots of dumb jokes, but FO3 has vampires and a city of children :retarded:
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,306
Take the ability to push companions back, for example.

It's not just companions, it's any NPCs. And I get them blocking me in Fallout 1 all the time. You also can order them to move in combat with that.

Guy A: Bethesda sucks for adding stupid dumb jokes into Fallout 3.
Guy B: Fallout 2 had stupid dumb jokes.

Stupid dumb jokes from Black Isle >>> stupid dumb jokes from Bethesda.
 
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Jack Of Owls

Arcane
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
4,273
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Massachusettes
Fallout 2 is boring but it doesn't suck. I can't believe there are madmen out there that play this with mods that restore cut content since the original release felt like it had cut content that was restored. It was interminable.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,522
Take the ability to push companions back, for example. I played through Fallout 1 four or five times, and never had an issue with being blocked in by them (or maybe once in the vault hospital?). So yeah, people who played Fallout 1 know how important this improvement is - barely noticeable with good design.
Yes, you played those games so much you didn't even notice it's not only about the companions and yes, you got blocked plenty and it was pretty damn irritating. Just like you didn't notice the dumb humor in F1, I guess.
Fallout 2 added the ability to push them back, but that corresponded with them adding more areas where you would get stuck (since this no longer necessitated a reload). There was one corridor where I had to push my companion back ~12 times to get back out.
Just making shit up, because why not.
They make slight improvements to the combat system, and then add a ton of trash mob combat. The world's bigger, but it's also mostly forgettable (the first interesting location you reach is probably Vault City). You have political interactions between communities, but it's undermined because the communities themselves are nonsensical (New Reno doesn't feel like a real political entity). Or you have something like the car, which doesn't add anything to the gameplay and only screws up the atmosphere.
Oh gawd, here we go again. Please, tell us how "this is a place where you get some quests" communities of F1 made more sense than those in F2. Addendum: please don't.
I love logical consistency on the Codex:
Wow, totally not a ridiculous strawman. The only thing I'm saying is: the game that added stupid random humor to the Fallout series is F1. If someone fails to acknowledge that, he either did not play it or is a raging dumbass.
Anyway, it's insane to compare, say a 45 second encounter you get once in the game in Fallout 1 to an entire major hub like San Francisco being a joke.
Please don't compare things that are a joke in F1 to things that are a joke in F2 because you're hurting my feelings.
Just because it's bigger game now, doesn't mean you can justify it having more stupid shit.
Out of us two, the only person trying to justify or prove something is you. I don't give shit about the number of references to this or that in Fallout series, the dumb jokes are sometimes OK, sometimes not, but they were there from the start and, to me, they don't detract from enjoying both F1 and F2.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
Please don't compare things that are a joke in F1 to things that are a joke in F2 because you're hurting my feelings.

Yeah, obviously having a 45 second easter egg is the exact same thing as having one of the major hubs consisting entirely of pop culture jokes. If you don't think they're the same, it must be because it hurts your feelings. Can't argue with that brilliant logic.

Fallout 2 added the ability to push them back, but that corresponded with them adding more areas where you would get stuck (since this no longer necessitated a reload). There was one corridor where I had to push my companion back ~12 times to get back out.
Just making shit up, because why not.

Here. See that corridor on the right behind the boilers to get to the room with the prisoner? Now if you're skill isn't high enough to lockpick the door, you end up stuck in a dead end in a single column path with your companion right behind you.

If you're accusing people of making shit up because they actually remember the game and you don't, there's not much of a point in continuing.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,522
Yup, brilliant logic means repeating "45 second easter egg" like it's a phrase that in any way accurately describes the amount of random stuff in F1. Does asking one of the more threatening NPCs in a game for a sandwich completely out of blue in a middle of what's obviously meant to be one of the most memorable encounters in the game hurt your feelings or not?

And just to help you a bit: "making shit up" was referring to ridiculous brilliantly logical idea of developers supposedly adding more areas where you would get stuck because ability to push companions makes getting out of them possible. I know there are quite a few places in both games where you would get stuck because of npcs.
 

janjetina

Arcane
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Torment: Tides of Numenera
The first Fallout I played happened to be Fallout 2, because I was still accidentally discovering real RPGs. It took me a few years to realise why FO1 is on a different level. I still enjoy 2, but 1 has a parsimonious elegance, achieving everything it needs with a bare few instruments, while 2 is a cacophony with 19 different audio channels.

It's simple, in the end: is there something in FO2 that you would want to put into FO1, that would improve FO1? No, not really, except a couple of interface jiggles or whatever. That's all there is to it.

What I would put in FO 1 from FO 2?

Companion management
Size of the world
Additional weapons
Atachments
Car
Some of the quests
Politics between communities

Just from the top of my head.

The only major gripe I had with FO 2 were the overabundance of cultural references.

Pushing the characters out of the way is an important interface feature needed in Fallout (and present in FO 2). I have learned it the hard way, when my character was stuck in a (cuck)shed somewhere due to Ian blocking the doorway.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wonderland
Neither does it justify to pretend like FO 1 was some "pure" game and FO 2 was "just whacky shit".
Nope, all I'm saying is 1 rather had a minimum of them, while 2 had way too much of them.

FO 1 had enough cultural reference for the mere 15-20 hours needed to complete it and therefore you can at best complain about too many references in FO 2 but you cannot claim like FO 1 did not have its fair share of them.
14 easter eggs reference spread throughout 15-20 hours game means it had an average of a pop culture reference every 1 hour or so of the gameplay. Do you think an average run of Fallout 2 is nearly 10 times as much of that? Maybe 60, 70 hours if you take the time, probably 80 hours with RP. That's an average of pop culture references every <1 hour.

The short development cycle for me is more of benefit in the "what if" category for FO 2. What if they would have had the proper amount of time to finish the game, ironing the stuff out and trimming the fat for I am sure there are plenty of whacky ideas which did not make it into FO 1 while it seems there was no proper quality control for FO 2 to trim it and they just left most if it.
FO1's vets leaving halfway through the development means there's no one steering the ship and unite the team to create a more coherent product
Lack of communication between the team means the product is even more divided and disconnected, that any of them thought they're getting the job to include pop culture references and so all of them add one or more.
Seriously, this has been talked about before here
I think the "Black Isle" seeming-slam that most folks at BIS noticed was in a slice of dialogue in Arcanum referring to the "you mean the Black Isle?" and a follow-up of, "no one would ever want to go there," - I think it was in segments related to the Isle of Despair. Whether it actually was a Black Isle slam, I don't recall, but it was easy to interpret it as one. I don't think anyone really gives a shit about it all now, though - I don't.

But that said - the tension within the studio was pretty unpleasant following the departure, and it was mixed with a measure of confusion because it wasn't clear at first what had happened (or why it had happened), just that everyone leading FO2 was suddenly gone.

Considering what was going on (hey, Fallout's successful, why doesn't every non-developer in every part of the company jump in and try to guide the ship despite the fact it's going fine already), I don't blame anyone, that situation basically sucks - but I only saw it/heard it from the outside, so take that with a grain of salt.

I will say FO2 suffered without the three of them heading the ship and maintaining the vision - not to mention the subsequent loss of other folks who jumped ship, even if they weren't working on FO2 - we lost a lot of good people. But hey, that says just as much about the studio unable to keep them on board as much as the promise of better opportunities elsewhere.

I still rue the fact the original F2 artwork for the game cover was never used. :/

One of the strongest point of Fallout 1, is how unified and coherent it is. Nearly everything that's put in the game is connected one way or another, there's nothing that's just left alone. In the end, Fallout 2 is a better game for all of QoL improvements, but the loss of what made its predecessor great in the first place means it's just doesn't feel like a complete sequel.

But I don't see F2 as 'bad' in any way, nor I agree with this thread OP that it sucks. I blame Sigourn for necroing this thread.
 
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tindrli

Arcane
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Dragodol
F2 is GREAT GAME!!! played NW several times and never actually finished it couldn't chew fuckin roman legions.. just couldn't connect it to my vision of fallout.. i still play it from time to time but nah..
 

Lurker47

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There are three great Fallouts: FO1, FO2 and FO:NV. Each with unique set of strengths and flaws, but all of them are fantastic games nevertheless, and quality gap between them and Bethesda crap is tremendous. I really don't get this boring repetitive faggots that are blowing flaws of each game way out of proportions to prove some childish point that "my fallout is better than your fallout". Especially shitting on Fallout 2 is tiresome with "muh cultural references ruining muh immershun" mantra being hammered over and over.
I always found it interesting how the core series' (1, 2, NV) identities are so unique and varied between each game. It makes the larger identity of Fallout seems so much more nuanced. It also makes the stylistic exaggeration of 3 and 4's style seem all the more bizarre and the people saying "lol u just want the same game over and over again this is just a different take on the series" even more silly.

No game series has ever captured a tone and style as unique and subtle as the Fallout series and judging how cynically marketable Bethesda's interpretation was, I don't think there ever will be.
 

Lurker47

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Also, it's interesting to see how radically different the discourse about the series was before 3 came out.
 

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
You're boring.

We need to cease and desist any complaints at all with either Fallout 1 or 2. One bad point might drive Bethesda to use the Oblivion engine and create Fallout FPS: Mutant Mayhem. You never know what might drive those crazies over the edge.
Whoa, a time traveler
 

Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Fallout 1 is the best of them all but I'm glad 2 and New Vegas exist, they're good games too.

Fallout 3 is retarded shit that goes way way waaaay beyond FO2's zany pop culture references.

FO2 may have lots of dumb jokes, but FO3 has vampires and a city of children :retarded:

So what is your take on "Fallout" 4?
 

DavidBVal

4 Dimension Games
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There is only one Fallout game.

Two.

Everything went shit after a good liftoff and reaching the stratosphere.

Okay, I'll cut the edgy crap. FO2 is better than 99.99% of the RPGs that will be released in what remains of our lives. It's just that it's merely "bloatware" over original Fallout, combat gets boring because the system was never designed to be a long game, and I never felt like caring for anything happenning in the game unlike what happens with FO1 perfectly self-contained plot and setting. I can replay FO1 anytime, but no way I'd replay FO2. Life is too short.
 

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