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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Sentinel

Arcane
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Nov 18, 2015
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Ommadawn
I never mentioned BG.

nice edit
I also never mentioned weapon enchants. And +6 in a d100 system is fucking nothing unless you're min maxing for POTD.

Both BG and 3.5 have d20 rolls to hit, you're just trolling.

It's not about the source, point was +6 in PoE is more valuable than +1 in those systems (6% vs 5%), ppl just see 6/100 and go full retard like you.
I haven't played AD&D since 2002, so I don't remember jack shit about its prof rules other than different classes having different values. However, in PoE your base accuracy scales with your level, and you can get accuracy from 200 other talents/abilities (not counting magic means). In 5e D&D, the only way you're getting more accuracy is by: leveling up some 4~5 levels (at which point you get +1 proficiency bonus) or choosing some feats every ~4 levels. Accuracy bonuses are way more abundant in PoE than they are in D&D, making the talents feel worthless.

magic = spells/potions/enchantments or any other analogous means.
 
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Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Yeah, I'm not familiar with 5th ed, but if it's anything like the earlier versions, accuracy is actually more important in PoE. Since the accuracy vs enemy defence roll also determines whether you score graze, hit or crit. Crits/grazes also affect effect durations and call various on-crit effects. So every little bit helps.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yes, it is more important, so important in fact it's the most important stat :p It determines whether you hit AND crit, so the 3E crit range feats don't apply that well, even if they do exist (those Hit to Crit conversions). In 3E you had to specifically invest in feats to make you crit more often, like Improved Critical and the Weapon Master bonuses. So, yeah, generally ACC is more substantial than +1 in D&D, but the combat in PoE overwhelmingly feels very floaty and 'soft', it's like watching ragdolls bump into each other much with the same impact. If we compare raw numbers, then PoE comes ahead of BG in many scenarios, but people think talents don't do anything because the combat is both dull to watch and incredibly clusterfucky and fast, so you can't really feel those numbers. I hope they fix the recovery system in PoE2, many of the problems stem from it, at least the lowest time between attacks should be much higher.
 

Riddler

Arcane
Patron
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Messages
2,353
Bubbles In Memoria
I never mentioned BG.

nice edit
I also never mentioned weapon enchants. And +6 in a d100 system is fucking nothing unless you're min maxing for POTD.

Both BG and 3.5 have d20 rolls to hit, you're just trolling.

It's not about the source, point was +6 in PoE is more valuable than +1 in those systems (6% vs 5%), ppl just see 6/100 and go full retard like you.
I haven't played AD&D since 2002, so I don't remember jack shit about its prof rules other than different classes having different values. However, in PoE your base accuracy scales with your level, and you can get accuracy from 200 other talents/abilities (not counting magic means). In 5e D&D, the only way you're getting more accuracy is by: leveling up some 4~5 levels (at which point you get +1 proficiency bonus) or choosing some feats every ~4 levels. Accuracy bonuses are way more abundant in PoE than they are in D&D, making the talents feel worthless.

magic = spells/potions/enchantments or any other analogous means.

Isn't 5e kind of a different game balancewise to earlier editions? The game is all about action economy, not accuracy. People like rolling dice so they made all dice rolls important and created a lot of ways to increase your available dice.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
No. If several of the martial classes had been combined into one, they all would have been less boring.

I'm aware that PoE is just mindlessly aping D&D, but D&D does it wrong too. If D&D fans want to disagree, whatever.
 

Tavernking

Don't believe his lies
Developer
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Sep 1, 2017
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1,216
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Australia
Can't believe we missed out on hunting sea monsters and fishing. To hell with the stretch goals they need to be in the game from the start, what's the bet they add it in some DLC anyway
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm pretty sure there are still going to be sea monsters, like bosses, while that stretch goal was aimed at populating the map with them. Maybe. Who knows. While the kraken was a pushover and a joke boss it was still cool and I'd like to see more giant monsters in general. I'd also like an undersea quest/zone where we fight them on their own territory! Awesome!
 

Prime Junta

Guest
there are still going to be sea monsters

I believe Josh confirmed this in one of the interviews during the publicity blitz, along with ship-to-ship combat.

(If this is the case, it could actually be good they didn't make that stretch goal. Sea monsters could easily be something that's incredibly cool if it happens once or twice, but a tremendous drag if they're all over the place.)
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
I interpreted the Sea Monsters stretch goal to be like the Bounties from PoE1. Was one of the things I found most upsetting that they missed.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm pretty sure there are still going to be sea monsters, like bosses, while that stretch goal was aimed at populating the map with them. Maybe. Who knows. While the kraken was a pushover and a joke boss it was still cool and I'd like to see more giant monsters in general. I'd also like an undersea quest/zone where we fight them on their own territory! Awesome!

Seeing such optimism is refreshing. All aboard the Hype Ship!

:hypeship:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
I think PoE2 has the chance to be the most incline that has come out in the last decade (without counting AoD and UnderRail), but it all depends on whether they try to water the RP elements down. Seems like they won't, but we don't know if it's just going to be only flavor text again. Yeah, I know writing will still be shit, but everything else can be very good. The writing just needs to set up cool fights and believable drama to be serviceable, there's no need for them to try to be deep about it. Make it logical and clear, it'll work.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
Maybe I am being too naive, but everything is now in Obsidian's favor - no retarded stretch goals, no publisher, a lot bigger budget, no crushingly pressing time constraints, somewhat different setting, experience with the engine etc. I also think they did a fairly good job with WM2, so my evaluation isn't based only on hopeful thinking. Yeah, it's possible for them to squander each and every one of these advantages, but we'll see.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Everything per-encounter is still major :decline: though. Muh spell rationing :(

If that's the worst thing wrong with it, it could still be pretty good.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
I don't know how they'll keep the tension in the macro sense, though. Games like these rely on strong resource management to stay challenging. Now with both the quasi-Vancian system and Health/Endurance mechanic gone, I don't know if wounds will be able to adequately replace them. Otherwise the difficulty will only come from individual fights and that's incredibly hard to do and balance. The trash mobs will feel even trashier due to their inability to eat up your limited resources.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I don't know how they'll keep the tension in the macro sense, though. Games like these rely on strong resource management to stay challenging.

Not really challenging as such since you can always trek back for more camping resources (which is what paste-eaters, to borrow Luckmann's excellent expression) did.

It is an intrinsic part of the experience for me at least, and while I understand the goon-service reasons Josh did this, it will leave a hole, and the experience will be the lesser for it.

Perhaps a mod will eventually fix it, but even so it is :decline: .
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, you shouldn't be able to trek back. I thought that was the compromise for the droolies. Why even more catering to them? Even if that is the goal, the trash mobs will still be objectively trashier.
 

Sentinel

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Nov 18, 2015
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Ommadawn
The move to a per-encounter system does put a lot more strain on the encounter designers to make individual encounters challenging. My optimistic self wants to believe Josh moved to this system because he wanted to focus a lot more on encounter design than he did in the previous game.
 

Starwars

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Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
You have to at least appear to be excited in order to feel that wonderful mix of righteous fury, disappointment and feeling of "sigh, they let us down!" after the game is released.
 
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santino27

Arcane
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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,679
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Sentinel and Lacrymas turning the corner! Now, it feels like my duty and responsibility to shift over to the 'POE2 is going to be shit' side of things. Balance must be maintained!

(I agree; the potential for POE2 to be good and a major incline over POE1 (and many other modern RPGs) is high, but obviously, that's just potential. We'll see what happens in the execution.)
 

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