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Disfavored or Scarlet Chorus

Luckmann

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they don't murder
loooool as if "kill everyone" is not murder
loooool as if you're not a paste-eating teenage retard that confuses murder with killing
She's cute, though, so she gets a pass.

Would you apply that logic when meeting an Israeli?
Yes, because much like "orc", "israeli" is a fictional concept.

:smug:
 

Revenant

Guest
http://tyranny.gamepedia.com/Disfavored said:
Second, this largely arbitrary limitation leads to prejudice against people living outside the Northern Empire, in particular the denizens of the Tiers. Graven Ashe and his legion consider themselves to be the defenders of civilization fighting against barbaric hordes, believing that the end justifies the means. As a result, the Disfavored are ruthless in their conduct towards the enemy and conquered populations, giving no quarter. Prisoners of war are conscripted as working slaves or put to the sword, villages are put under martial law with capital punishment being common, and any defiance is punished by collective reprisals and destruction of property - up to and including destroying entire towns.[8]
Yeah, totally not murder (or even genocide, as ERYFKRAD put it). Fascist Rome-sympathizer shits like you deserve that your civilizations are ruined by barbarians, if this is what civilization means.
 

Luckmann

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http://tyranny.gamepedia.com/Disfavored said:
Second, this largely arbitrary limitation leads to prejudice against people living outside the Northern Empire, in particular the denizens of the Tiers. Graven Ashe and his legion consider themselves to be the defenders of civilization fighting against barbaric hordes, believing that the end justifies the means. As a result, the Disfavored are ruthless in their conduct towards the enemy and conquered populations, giving no quarter. Prisoners of war are conscripted as working slaves or put to the sword, villages are put under martial law with capital punishment being common, and any defiance is punished by collective reprisals and destruction of property - up to and including destroying entire towns.[8]
Yeah, totally not murder (or even genocide, as ERYFKRAD put it).
Yes, actually, totally not murder. Not genocide, either, to be clear.
Fascist Rome-sympathizer shits like you deserve that your civilizations are ruined by barbarians, if this is what civilization means.
:edgy:
 

Luckmann

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Killing innocent civilians == murder and war crime too.
Except they're not killing innocent civilians. Who they kill and why is well codified and done as a matter of the rule of law. You might not like that law, and that's fine, but it still makes the Disfavored infinitely more preferable than the Scarlet Chorus, who kill indiscriminately and randomly, and those that aren't killed are turned into slaves or soldiers in an army where rape and violent coercion is both punishment and reward.

Also, talking about war crimes in a pre-civilizational scenario is beyond retarded. You really are paste-eating teenage angst taken form, except that this level of retardation makes me think it's more prepubescent rage than anything.
 

Tavernking

Don't believe his lies
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Disfavored are brutal, but they are the lesser of the two evils. The 'kill everything policy' is efficient, you don't have to worry about subsequent uprisings or foul tensions that can result in civil wars generations later... the Disfavored are ultimately saving more lives in the long run. The Chorus is just a retarded cult.
 

Luckmann

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You might not like that law, and that's fine
You do?
Good question. It's only now I realize that I don't know nearly enough about the Tiers to tell you whether the reign of Kyros would actually be an improvement or not. Now, I haven't played Tyranny in a long time, so that might be part of it, or it's deliberately left vague in order to lend credence to the idea that Kyros' invasion being for the better.

Generally, though, I believe in principles of self-governance and nationalism, so me as a person would likely be opposing the invasion to the best of my ability, as the men of Stalwart (man, I fucking hate that section for what it is unless you've already betrayed Kyros, it's such a fucking wreck unless you're playing some kind of asshole psycho). But as a matter of principle, is the practice of Disfavored for the better? Yes, absolutely. The reasons I'd be opposing the Disfavored would be on entirely different grounds than contempt for their methods, and if I absolutely had to (just like the Disfavored), I'd probably employ the same laws. This doesn't mean that I'd like it, though.

So would I like the law? No. Would I still enforce it in that situation, with the benefit of all in mind? Yeah, probably, unless there's some extenuating or extreme circumstance that would make me act otherwise.

If I were to invade Kyros' empire, I'd want something like the Disfavored at my back in order to end it quickly, employing the same logic they do, and making sure that the rule of law is cemented and order restored swiftly and mercilessly. Strategically, something like the Scarlet Chorus could serve a vital role in such a conquest, but if I had to choose, I'd still opt for the methods of the Disfavored.
 

Delterius

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rule of law
You do realize this doesn't apply to this situation, right?
Of course it does. The Disfavored is all about the rule of law and order, for better or worse.
Well, I get where you're coming from. From the way you and others have described things I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. I only take exception to your usage of the term Rule of Law, which is a full package of notions that go beyond following the letter of the law. A regime with Rule of Law has a number of constraints to legitimate government that go completely against what the Disfavored are.
 

Luckmann

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rule of law
You do realize this doesn't apply to this situation, right?
Of course it does. The Disfavored is all about the rule of law and order, for better or worse.
Well, I get where you're coming from. From the way you and others have described things I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. I only take exception to your usage of the term Rule of Law, which is a full package of notions that go beyond following the letter of the law. A regime with Rule of Law has a number of constraints to legitimate government that go completely against what the Disfavored are.
No. The rule of law in this context does not in itself imply more than the letter of the law. The principle of the rule of law is simply the principle that the law should govern a state, rather than the arbitrary will of individuals. For this purpose, the will of Kyros is the rule of law, but more importantly and more to the point in this context, it means that the rules and regulations imposed by the Disfavored are not random or arbitrary, but actually follow a strict hierarchy.

There are definitely issues with how law works in Kyros' empire, make no mistake - there's a good theory that the laws of Tunon are deliberately byzantine, and the Fatebinders are essentially untouchable arbitrators that can dictate the rule of law as they see fit as per their interpretation, and this system is entirely on purpose, but in relation to the Disfavored, this is largely irrelevant - the fact remain that their actions are not random, that they have stringent rules and regulations to which they adhere, and although obviously both oppressive and repressive, if you follow the law, you do not risk being killed. Lay down your arms, and you will be spared. Pledge an oath, and it will be respected. Open the gates, and the town and it's walls will be left standing. Pay your taxes and you will not be plundered.

None of this is nice, but again, it is infinitely preferable to the Scarlet Chorus if you have to choose between them.
 

Luckmann

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rather than the arbitrary will of individuals. For this purpose, the will of Kyros is the rule of law
Eh?
Too complicated for you? It's not really that complicated; many of the first, strongest believers in the rule of law were essentially despots. In this sense, Kyros is not an individual, but the ruler. The top of the hierarchal food-chain. The writer of the law that is to be followed (seemingly relegated almost entirely to Tunon).

But more importantly, it's largely irrelevant in this context, because the discussion concerned the Disfavored, not the merits (or lack thereof) of Kyros or his empire and the laws therein.
 

Delterius

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Too complicated for you?
You've defined the Rule of Law in opposition to the arbitrary will of individuals. Then you claimed that the law of Kyros' empire is based on Kyros' arbitrary will. Don't you see any self serving circularity in claiming that the arbitrary will of an individual serves to curtail the arbitrary will of that same individual?

Simple question, what happens to me when my neighbors defy Kyros' will?

Anything between them being hanged and therefore nothing at all to genocide and destruction of my entire town.

It all depends on the arbitrary will of Kyros' officials.

This is not Rule of Law.
 
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