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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,665
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
I figured full voice acting would force them to economize on words more, and I think the game bears this out. Even if you turn the sound off, the dialogues are more readable than anything in the first game.

I'm having fun, though I'm still in Fort Joy; meanwhile at the Codex:

rock_band.png
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I look forward to the scathing review of the game that calls it shit while most enjoy the game.

P gud.

Playing as a rogue is way better in this game than it was in the 2nd, especially if you spec out to polymorph. Rupture tendon + chicken transform = gg no re.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
A chicken with the name of a Jimi Hendrix's song, Larian respects nothing. But something strange is happening to me : I start to get used to the fully voiced dialogues. Comes to enjoy it actually. English is not my mother tongue, so I'm less demanding in that matter but still, some voices are good. Well... animal's mostly.
Not the narrator though, and I still don't get the necessity of a voiced narrator anyway.

On another note I really struggle to find a skill that synergize well with necromancy.

Summoning or warfare for life steal.
Summoning seems to have terrible synergy with Necromancy. Since you can only keep one summon up at a time (a really shitty way to balance things, truth be told), no matter the source, you lose out on some of the best aspects of Necromancy, and I don't think there's even any Necromancy-influenced Infusion for your Incarnate - there's Electric, Fire Poison, Water, Acid, Cursed Electric, Ice and Necrofire - the last of which has nothing to do with Necromancy, but is Pyromancy-with-Source. And if you want to put up one of the corpse summons that goes and explodes itself, poof goes your Incarnate.

Summoning is the only skill that really gets a capstone, incentivizing pumping it at the expense of everything else (really, capstones are almost universally a bad idea for this one reason), and Necromancy doesn't really synergize well with anything.

One of my first ideas was to make a Summoning/Necromancy build with the Leech talent, Mosquito Swarm and Blood Sucker, but Necromancy synergizing so incredibly poorly with Summoning along with the fact that Leech removing the blood from the ground (and thus making either Blood Sucker or itself redundant) was the reason I didn't.

There's also only very few cross-skill/synergy skill crossovers, such as between Aerothurgy 1/Necromancy 1 for Raining Blood, or Aerothurgy 3/Necromancy 3 for Blood Storm. Necromancy seem to have been largely forgotten in D:OS2, unfortunately, and whereas all other spell schools get neat crossovers, Necromancy gets basically nothing, and what little it gets is inconsistent. It also doesn't help that it's initial lineup of skills are extremely lackluster, and the ones that aren't are extremely circumstantial.

It also suffers from some conceptual issues where on one hand it destroys corpses (Raise Bloated Corpse, Raise Bone Widow) but also benefits from corpses still on the ground (Bone Cage). It doesn't seem to know if it wants to support melee (Blood Sucker, Bone Cage, Decaying Touch, Living on the Edge, Death Wish, etc.) or support casters/do debuffing (Summons, Raining Blood, Silencing Stare, etc.) A lot of the buffs are potentially strong, but costs so much to use and last for such a short time that even if the situation arises for where they'd be useful; Death Wish relies on the common trope of converting the amount of damage you've suffered to damage you do, which is almost always a bad idea, but it only lasts for 2 bleeding (literally) round, and it does damage to you. Last Rites allows you to resurrect someone, but it charges 3 AP for the pleasure of fucking killing yourself and it sets Potion status.

It's sad, too, because Necromancy in D:OS1 had a lot of cool skills, such as Drain Willpower, Mute, Rapture, Destroy Summon, Vampiric Touch, Lower Resistances, Oath of Desecration, Malediction, Death Punch, Horrific Scream, Invulnerability, Soulsap, and even Resurrect - no strings attached, no need to drop your entrails on the floor. It had a clear niche of single-target buffing/debuffing with summons on the side, and that's also why I think that Necromancy has suffered the most from the changes to the game, and lost it's conceptual niche. With the armor system and the binary effects, there's simply no room for debuffs of the necromancer's type - not only would armor defend against it, but many of the debuffs dealed with reducing the defenses of the opponent; types of defenses that simply do not exist anymore. Meanwhile, the summoning focus was entirely usurped by Summoning, and in the interest of "muh balance", the limit to 1 summon ensures that there's no real potential for overlap, despite the fact that some Necromancy skills could be useful for Summoning (Living on the Edge).

And while Necromancy didn't really get any synergy skills in D:OS1 either, they simply weren't a thing. It's absence in D:OS2 is remarkable, because all the others have support for eachother, but Necromancy is left dead in the water. I've previously lamented the lack of overlap between Scoundrel, Warfare and Huntsman, but Necromancy gets a double dose of this. It almost feels like Necromancy is the opposite of Polymorph. Polymorph goes with everything, even if it gets no synergy skills with martial schools. Necromancy doesn't really go with anything. It almost feels like everything else got a final pass during the last stages of development, making sure that they conformed to certain standards (such as how every elemental school of magic gets synergy skills at specific ranks with all the martial schools, or how Summoning and Polymorph gets synergy skills with the elemental magics, etc.), but Necromancy was somehow forgotten, or somehow placed in it's own inconsistent category.

...
Also the voice acting sucked.
I will never forgive them for what they did to Murphy, the dog. We loved that part in D:OS1, but when me and the GF were going to play the game again in D:OS1:EE, we were honestly pretty hyped about playing out those scenes again because Murphy was such an awesome character and the whole thing made us smile, and the D:OS1:EE treatment had completely ruined the character. It was complete and utter trash. We never did finish that playthrough, sadly, and while it might sound petty and silly, I think we actually just sorta gave up on it after that, and while we made some attempts to continue, we never really dredged enough care from Lake Giveafuck to actually finish it.

It sorta felt like they had taken our favourite character out back and shot it.

:negative:
I figured full voice acting would force them to economize on words more, and I think the game bears this out. Even if you turn the sound off, the dialogues are more readable than anything in the first game.

I'm having fun, though I'm still in Fort Joy; meanwhile at the Codex:

rock_band.png
I think most actually enjoy the game, we just analyze and pick shit apart and discuss the flaws. It's hard to make a meaningful discussion out of the things that are good. That said, I do miss the old dialogues, they felt more engaging. I can see how some people like being just given the facts so they can get on with it, though.

In D:OS2, I think the only characters I care about are the animals, because we've already characterized them as according to their animal nature - all the other characters are largely unengaging voids that are there to shut up and give me loot. With a few exceptions, maybe.

Overall I think the voice-acting is pretty good, though. My issue with voice-acting isn't really that it's wrong or bad, but rather that it's a gargantuan waste of time and money, and that it constricts content creation massively. Larian literally cannot patch in a change in dialogue in order to fix something or add something minor that could be tremendously beneficial to the game without first recording dialogue for it, due to the standard that is set, and I don't even want to think of the number of last-minute additions and polish and potential changes that didn't make it simply because "Nope, we have no lines for that. Fix the questline with what we have, you can't add an option anymore".
 
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santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,683
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
This vs the first game - which is better and why? Have they finally implement the NPC schedules they had promised originally?

the people who prefer this one mostly like bad games

take that as you will
Games like Arcanum, right? :lol:

If every gamign journalist in the world wasn't breathlessly anointing the game as the best rpg evuh, I'd probably be less annoyed by it. As it stands, I think it's a somewhat pretty game with ok but unbalanced combat, good music, shitty writing, shitty voiceacting, and a surprising lack of polish (in terms of UI/UX and the bugs I've encountered). I've also stopped playing for now to see if they make will at all useful in the future.
Why read reviews?
Because people keep posting them in this thread? I am compelled to read most walls of text on the codex, even yours. :D
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,424
Its funny they tried to balance the game with the armor system and toning down skill trees. What they only ended up doing was making more boring gameplay then the previous game. Hybrids are punished and having a boring specialized party is must. Game balance being dumb fights are either easy or hard depending on your weapon and skill synergy. If you decide to play it like the previous original sin you are fucked. As a plethora of skills are useless unless you specialize around them.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
Hybrids are not punished unless you hybridize in a bad way. Hybridization is practically inevitable as you advance in the game and so many skill points are thrown at you, unless you deliberately choose to make a very boring monobuild.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,154
Location
Bulgaria
Heads up, a spoiler you'll be glad to know before you start exploring Chapter 2:

If you wander in the Wrecker's Cave around lvl 11/12, stumble into those four Voidwokens and watch helplessly how they chew you up, don't reload thinking you're underleveled for the area and have to come back later. You're actually not underleveled. It's one of those RPG moments where you're supposed to die. Yeah. I reloaded, came back at level 15, they "killed" me anyways and then I was just facerolling through this huge area that's appropriate for level 12/13, fighting trash mobs, finding trash loot and getting rewards that'd be great three levels ago. Just fyi.
I did just kill them on level 12.IS there some kind of immortal monster or something that i missed?I cleaned the caves and killed the idiot dwarf undead.

You killed them? There are four of them and each has like 4 attacks, dealing about 150 frost damage with each. Once he strips you character off their magic armour, he jumps forward, rolls them up in a cocoon and kidnaps them. If you killed them on lvl 12 kudos to you (are you playing on Explorer or what?). You didn't miss anything, I think you really are supposed to "die" in this fight.

I'm not sure you can kill them before getting cocooned. Afterwards you can kill them one by one.
That is in the caves with the ships and possessed dwarfs?I came teleporting from above and kill them one by one.I am on normal.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
It also suffers from some conceptual issues where on one hand it destroys corpses (Raise Bloated Corpse, Raise Bone Widow) but also benefits from corpses still on the ground (Bone Cage). It doesn't seem to know if it wants to support melee (Blood Sucker, Bone Cage, Decaying Touch, Living on the Edge, Death Wish, etc.) or support casters/do debuffing (Summons, Raining Blood, Silencing Stare, etc.) A lot of the buffs are potentially strong, but costs so much to use and last for such a short time that even if the situation arises for where they'd be useful; Death Wish relies on the common trope of converting the amount of damage you've suffered to damage you do, which is almost always a bad idea, but it only lasts for 2 bleeding (literally) round, and it does damage to you. Last Rites allows you to resurrect someone, but it charges 3 AP for the pleasure of fucking killing yourself and it sets Potion status.
Necro, and pyro, suffer from some of the same issues:
1. Lack of hard CC abilities
2. Their elemental debuff is a weak DOT

Necro has fewer bottom tier skills than the other schools and all of them are meh. Could really use something cool like an AOE weakness aura, or summonable circle of bone walls that blocks sight/movement, a bouncing lifesteal like hydro's bouncing heal, etc etc.

In DOS1 pyro had an ability to lay a smokescreen. I think you need oil in order to smokescreen in DOS2, but without Midnight Oil its hard to make a big one.

The DOTs- poison, bleed, burning- are pretty bad. Part of their weakness is that they do nothing useful besides damage but are blocked by armor. They should not be stopped by armor. They should damage the armor bar before the health bar, but I can't think of a good reason why they should require saves.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
It also suffers from some conceptual issues where on one hand it destroys corpses (Raise Bloated Corpse, Raise Bone Widow) but also benefits from corpses still on the ground (Bone Cage). It doesn't seem to know if it wants to support melee (Blood Sucker, Bone Cage, Decaying Touch, Living on the Edge, Death Wish, etc.) or support casters/do debuffing (Summons, Raining Blood, Silencing Stare, etc.) A lot of the buffs are potentially strong, but costs so much to use and last for such a short time that even if the situation arises for where they'd be useful; Death Wish relies on the common trope of converting the amount of damage you've suffered to damage you do, which is almost always a bad idea, but it only lasts for 2 bleeding (literally) round, and it does damage to you. Last Rites allows you to resurrect someone, but it charges 3 AP for the pleasure of fucking killing yourself and it sets Potion status.
Necro, and pyro, suffer from some of the same issues:
1. Lack of hard CC abilities
2. Their elemental debuff is a weak DOT

Necro has fewer bottom tier skills than the other schools and all of them are meh. Could really use something cool like an AOE weakness aura, or summonable circle of bone walls that blocks sight/movement, a bouncing lifesteal like hydro's bouncing heal, etc etc.

In DOS1 pyro had an ability to lay a smokescreen. I think you need oil in order to smokescreen in DOS2, but without Midnight Oil its hard to make a big one.

The DOTs- poison, bleed, burning- are pretty bad. Part of their weakness is that they do nothing useful besides damage but are blocked by armor. They should not be stopped by armor. They should damage the armor bar before the health bar, but I can't think of a good reason why they should require saves.
First of all, I agree, but at least Pyromancy gets to nuke, which is it's niche. A Pyromancer can at least synergize with another school, and be used to nuke defenses before putting debuffs up. Necromancy can't even really do that, and mixes poorly with everything. I guess it becomes a lot more pronounced if we consider each school in isolation, but I think that's a mistake, because while I don't necessarily agree with the design philosophy, it's very obvious that you're meant to be putting points in more than one thing. Unless it's Summoning. If it's Summoning, that shit needs to get to Rank 10 right away. For some really weird reason.

Beyond that, I agree that most DoT:s shouldn't be blocked by armor. But I also think that the armor system is inherently flawed. I need no further evidence of this than the fact that Earth damage targets Magic Armor, not Physical. You throw acid on someone or literally drop boulders, and it somehow hits an immaterial wall of magical willpower. Really, the system is fucked and unintuitive in so many different ways it's not even funny. You're literally walking unscathed in fire - fire created from an oil barrel that were set on fire with a molotov - and it targets magic armor, despite there being nothing magic about it. But oil? Oil slows you no matter what. It's a bigger mess than Jeb Bush.
Hybrids are not punished unless you hybridize in a bad way. Hybridization is practically inevitable as you advance in the game and so many skill points are thrown at you, unless you deliberately choose to make a very boring monobuild.
I think he meant "hybrid" as in doing both physical and magic damage. The game greatly rewards specialization so that you take out either magic or physical armor as fast as possible, and then just steamroll them. Wizards as support characters for a mixed party is hilariously shitty, because your main damage-dealers will only take down the physical armor, and the spellcaster(s) may simply be unable to adequately take down the magic armor in a timely fashion, on it's own.

It's honestly pretty aggrevating that the game so boldly and completely favour one-sided party-builds in this regard.
 
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Salvo

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,395
As much as I like the game, I have to criticize itemization at higher levels. Getting a sword (from a vendor) that's one level higher than the Unique you got from a boss shouldn't warrant a 30% damage increase. Fort Joy has a good balance with Unique items being strong, but after that it kinda falls apart.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,676
First of all, I agree, but at least Pyromancy gets to nuke, which is it's niche. A Pyromancer can at least synergize with another school, and be used to nuke defenses before putting debuffs up.
Maybe. It's not so obvious what magic save CCs are worth throwing out after removing magic armor with fireballs, though. You can't freeze them. Need to hit enemies twice with thunder to stun them. Medusa head is possibly the best aoe CC but removes and prevents burning. Maybe just throw a boring old geo spell at them.

Earth doing magical instead of physical has thrown me off a bunch of times too, esp since some of them have phys saves.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
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Messages
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Location
Scandinavia
I need no further evidence of this than the fact that Earth damage targets Magic Armor, not Physical.
Earth damage does target physical armor. Poison targets magical.
Unless something's changed in my game, no it doesn't. I haven't played the last 2-3 patches or something, but last time I threw a lolhueg boulder at someone, it was soaked up entirely by magic armor and ended up doing jack shit.

Edit: Went into game to double-check. Tested Fossil Strike. Threw lolhueg boulder into face of enemy. Still targets Magic Armor. No clue what you're talking about.
 
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Salvo

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,395
Earth Damage is Magical. As far as I remember the only school that targets Physical is Necromancy with stuff like Explosive Corpse.

Also Bone Widow is broken OP.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,963
Location
Russia
Ugh, things you go through to see some alternative endings

2cbFGoi.png

Good thing Megumin the Explosioness was immune to fire more or less.

You know what's the most dissapointing thing in all of this?

The story is actually very complicated, running through generations of lore and gravitating together multiple characters that all take the part in it, with twists and turns and unending level of layers.

Yet, it's mostly all for naught. It is written there somewhere, in multiplication of ending slides, coming straight from designer's document; it's just a fantasy story, with all the Larian epicness and fantasysh retardness, but it COULD have been a great story just due to how much stuff there is packed into it.

It COULD have been, but in the actual game, it was shattered into a clusterfuck of never ending fake villains, JRPG cutscenes, bad presentation, lack of actual dialogue and options with important characters. It's like reverse Deus Ex, where instead of working together with endgame villains, you're derping around a mess of scripted teleportations and frontloaded edgy dialogue.

This game deserves a complete rewrite. I understand it's difficult, might be a titanic job to make what this game tried to into good thing (the thing being multiple divines in your party trying to ascend and each having a very long story rooted in the world with personal quests and interactions), but without a very strong and clever rewrite, it's just a mess.

Btw, I have one question about C&C in this game. Did anyone NOT do quest for paladins in Act 2?
In Arx, game makes you think that because of that quest, Paladins raided barracks and killed all magisters. Is that true or is it just another moment of sleight of hand?

What do you people who finished game think about the story? The C&C and slides seem all Obsidianish and such, is there a potential hidden there somehwere? I am somewhat confused as last 1% of the game showed there was obvious effort put into multiple character arcs and plot and stuff.

Oh, and did anyone actually
release the valve with death fog? What happens? Does whole Arx gets rekked? And what is that stuff with Covenant, God King & Scythe? Is it any different than just not becoming divine and seeing world burn?

I also really wonder if it's possible to go through Blood Gauntlet by answering 4 questions. I wonder how game might react, since you must not steal and so on, basically being Avatar from Ultima. I mean, actually going through game like that, not just recruiting a mercenary.

Oh, and Braccus Rex...
I don't entirely understand his role in the story. Shouldn't Fane be on his place and be main hidden villain?
 
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Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,437
As much as I like the game, I have to criticize itemization at higher levels. Getting a sword (from a vendor) that's one level higher than the Unique you got from a boss shouldn't warrant a 30% damage increase. Fort Joy has a good balance with Unique items being strong, but after that it kinda falls apart.

Yes, this is indeed a stupid decision. But I remember the prequel was already going this way. But not to that extent though. BG2 was great in that matter : legenday weapons were reallly legendary. Once you would find your Strombringer or Mournblade, it would stay your loyal weapon until the end.

About Necromancy, haven't tried yet,n but doesn't it synergize well with scoundrel at least ? (second epic ring I find in the game that give bonus to huntsman and necromancer, I don't see how those two would meld well, necromancy seems to fit more to close combat)
 
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Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
I need no further evidence of this than the fact that Earth damage targets Magic Armor, not Physical.
Earth damage does target physical armor. Poison targets magical.
It damages physical armor or uses physical save?
earth dmg type(brownish) damages physical armor.
save type depends on spell used. Cripple from spikes or knockdown from earthquake is physical, while this weird worm tremor that pins in place is magical.
In general earth is nice 1(2) point wonder for melee/archer
Earth Damage (Brownish)? What drugs are you on, man? Half your post is intelligible and the rest makes no sense, and what little makes sense is simply wrong. Earth Damage - brownish, blueish, redish or whatever colour you're imagining - targets magical armor. I have no idea why you'd think otherwise. I was literally just in the game and double-checked because you made me doubt myself. I should never doubt myself. I'm awesome.
 
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Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,058
If you decide to play it like the previous original sin you are fucked.
How's that ? I'm playing the most "classic" version of DOS party in this game: fighter , ranger , geo/fireb mage , air/water mage and I've yet to experience any downsides of it . Splitting damage means choosing priorities , enemies have different resistances/armor values and the difference becomes more apparent as the game goes on . And the more damage types you have , the more likely you'll be able to exploit the weaknesses .
 

Ziggy

Scholar
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
134
Ugh, things you go through to see some alternative endings

you couldve saved on the final conversation and see everything with no hassle

I also really wonder if it's possible to go through Blood Gauntlet by answering 4 questions. I wonder how game might react, since you must not steal and so on, basically being Avatar from Ultima.
There's an achievement for that so it's possible. I think you could cheese it by taking a custom companion and bringing him straight there.

On endings: God King one felt really good mostly because of everyone but Fane calling me a shithead in the epilogue.

Final slides were all fucked up, in two of em (source redistributed and source removed) it said that The Beast went home and became a just ruler beloved by all, two minutes later saying that he came back, fucked up, and quickly left to be a pirate again. What gives.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
That said, I do miss the old dialogues, they felt more engaging. I can see how some people like being just given the facts so they can get on with it, though.
You can't be serious.

- Tell me about yourself
- Tell me about the orcs
- Tell me about the murder
- Tell me about the undead
 

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