Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Merlkir]

Can't quite tell if that's chipped stone/flint on that blade, or if it's a sawfish sword like these:

https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=26733&view=previous
(can't link images from MA, unfortunately)

 

[Sizzle]

Your Watcher status was so underused in the first one (barring a few cool moments in TWM), that you could make the same case as that - you continue to hone your Watcher powers.

Given the completeness of the story, you resolve basically any conflicts you personally had and come to terms with your Watcher powers, I'd say that ship has sailed.

Coming to terms with and gaining control over are two vastly different things.

There's still a lot of room there.

You failed to write a story in which the main gimmick has a point and is utilized to its full potential (even though it was a shitty idea from the start)? Tough luck, move on, create a better story and a different protagonist.

Given that the new protagonist would also be a Watcher (they're not going to just abandon that), what would be the point in doing that?

Basically, you don't like the PC's story from the first game, and you feel this will somehow sully the narrative of the second.

The Eothas thing was always a big background mystery in PoE1, it was obvious that, if there was ever a sequel, they would return to it.

After defeating Thaos - and considering how much narrative focus was given to all the godly shenanigans - it was the biggest plot point that was still left dangling.

Sure, I'm not opposed to dealing with Eothas in one way or another, or continuing some other god's shenanigans, but it would've been better had we been dealing with Eothas' death and the ramifications of that, godly or otherwise, in a dramatic context. His resurrection is, again, cheap and the conflicting worldviews that drove the Saint's War are trivialized and swept under the rug. It also turns out there is no victor, the creation of the Godhammer was pointless and the lives lost in both sides of the war are disrespected. Like that famous IWD quote goes "a death without meaning isn't a sacrifice, it's a waste", everything during that war has been a waste and that's terrible. They might use that angle to create drama and raise questions about the cheapness of mortal life in Eora, but I doubt it.

It's not like this is the first time a god came back after death (Abydon).

Besides, I'm hoping they will do something interesting with the entire came back wrong thing. Even in PoE1, there were hints that Eothas didn't start the Saint's War for entirely selfless purposes.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, I just think the PC's story is finished and they are trying to force a square peg in a round hole by including them in the second. It requires too much contrivances and coincidences for that when a new protagonist would be the same deal, but without that baggage. Or they could've framed the whole story in another way, you are a lord and owner of land after all, you could've received a message from the VTC to come to the Archipelago to support their cause and so the journey begins with the same character. Yeah, they could frame it in the end as "you are the ONLY ONE powerful enough TO STOP HIM", it smells a bit of chosen one territory, but at least you have the whole first and second game to build up your Watcher powers.

Abydon coming back to life is kind of a mythological story, not that it wasn't real, but it was framed as such. He didn't come back on his own, Ondra helped him by having another body created for him and there was no mortal intervention. Again, it's the Saint's War that is the problem, not the god coming back. It shows disrespect and ignorance for the immensity of war and worldviews by the authors for pulling off such a cheap trick. All resurrections in stories are cheap, including Jesus'. He should've stayed dead on the cross (and that's coming from a Catholic). All the tension and drama build up to nothing in the end, so the reader feels cheated. It's just bad storytelling, you can justify it however you wish and make it seem as logical as possible, but it still is a bad narrative move.

As you can see, they've already contrived an explanation as to why it's the PC from the first one and not another protagonist, so excuses are obviously plentiful, even if it's not clear why we don't become Hollow after we get our soul sucked, that doesn't mean it was a good dramatic choice or takes into consideration the context.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh hey, Eric Fenstermaker showed up on the Obsidian forums this morning: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91197-so-who-is-working-on-the-game/?p=1938654

I'm on this thing! I wasn't sure if I could confirm officially anything in public yet (I'm used to keeping everything under wraps until someone gives the okay, I guess), but then today I learned it's been public since like May. So I guess I can! Plus, who cares?

Writing Eder, as previously noted, as a contract writer. Also did story and world development back in preproduction when I was the narrative lead in-house. Memories.

Peace and twin-rorschach-bear-high-fives to all of you.

 

[Sizzle]

At this moment, all we know is that Eothas came back.

We have no idea what the reasons for that (other than it almost certainly has something to do with luminous adra), or if he went insane/evil/power-hungry, or whatever. It's still a bit premature to talk about story contrivances when we know so little of it.

Right now, for all we know, there is a good reason the story requires the protagonist from the first game.

 

[Sentinel]

you could've received a message from the VTC to come to the Archipelago to support their cause

But in this case you're forcing a sort of backstory on the player. What if, like me, you murdered the entire vailian company and their warehouse in the city in PoE1? Certainly they wouldn't be asking for my help. The way they went leaves it as blank as possible - the only relevant piece is that you're chilling out in Caed Nua, which is something every player character, regardless of choices made, had access to.

I don't really get this "The PC's story is finished in PoE" thing though. The last slide is literally

"But at that moment, there was little to be done, and the matter would have to wait. A long journey loomed ahead."

This is as close to "Next week on Pillars of Eternity..." as it gets.

 

[Immortal]

I think this system might be turn out to be very interesting after all. Although I still predict the equivalent of 1/19 spreads, but even more cheesy due to access to higher level abilities. F.e. you can essentially go Fighter/Rogue, pick only fighter talents on level up and only get Deathblows when it becomes available.

So basically DnD Powerbuilds where you are doing single level splashes for HIPS / Feats / Domains / Skill Modifiers.

This isn't unusual for multiclass systems and knowing Josh he's gonna do everything he can kicking and screaming to 'solve' it. Making it boring and lame.


EDIT:

Lol of course you would.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh hey, Eric Fenstermaker showed up on the Obsidian forums this morning: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91197-so-who-is-working-on-the-game/?p=1938654

I'm on this thing! I wasn't sure if I could confirm officially anything in public yet (I'm used to keeping everything under wraps until someone gives the okay, I guess), but then today I learned it's been public since like May. So I guess I can! Plus, who cares?

Writing Eder, as previously noted, as a contract writer. Also did story and world development back in preproduction when I was the narrative lead in-house. Memories.

Peace and twin-rorschach-bear-high-fives to all of you.

Wait, I thought he was on paternal leave because he had a kid? Did they fire him than rehire on a contract?

America is a fucked up place man.

 

[Infinitron]

The conversation about whether the story "requires" the protagonist is a boring one. Maybe a local Glanfathan hero could have just run after Thaos when he arrived at Twin Elms and stuck a sword in his head, protagonist not required!

It's more interesting to talk about whether a particular protagonist adds value to the story. A protagonist who is aware of the true nature of the gods might have some interesting things to say when dealing with them.

Wait, I thought he was on paternal leave because he had a kid? Did they fire him than rehire on a contract?

He resigned and became a freelancer. Obsidian is his first client (I think).

 

[Sizzle]

It's more interesting to talk about whether a particular protagonist adds value to the story. A protagonist who is aware of the true nature of the gods might have some interesting things to say when dealing with them.

That's (part of) what I meant - it would be really boring to have a second "THE GODS AREN'T REAL?!?!!", it's just not that interesting of a twist.

 

[Immortal]

It's more interesting to talk about whether a particular protagonist adds value to the story. A protagonist who is aware of the true nature of the gods might have some interesting things to say when dealing with them.

That's (part of) what I meant - it would be really boring to have a second "THE GODS AREN'T REAL?!?!!", it's just not that interesting of a twist.

It wasn't even that great of a twist the first time.

 

[Sizzle]

Exactly.

 

[Lacrymas]

But in this case you're forcing a sort of backstory on the player. What if, like me, you murdered the entire vailian company and their warehouse in the city in PoE1? Certainly they wouldn't be asking for my help. The way they went leaves it as blank as possible - the only relevant piece is that you're chilling out in Caed Nua, which is something every player character, regardless of choices made, had access to.

I don't really get this "The PC's story is finished in PoE" thing though. The last slide is literally

"But at that moment, there was little to be done, and the matter would have to wait. A long journey loomed ahead."

This is as close to "Next week on Pillars of Eternity..." as it gets.

They sent Pallegina to kill what's-his-face or break off any ties with the VTC, so in either case you did their work for them or didn't get involved at all. "The long journey loomed ahead" thing is vague and it didn't have to mean "The Watcher and co. will be back next week in PoE2!"

It's more interesting to talk about whether a particular protagonist adds value to the story. A protagonist who is aware of the true nature of the gods might have some interesting things to say when dealing with them.

Again with the whole "the gods aren't real" nonsense. They ARE, no matter how they came into being, it doesn't change their place in the cosmos in the slightest. They have tangible presence and power in Eora, clearly being able to influence their domains.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't say anything about them not being real. But real or not, they're still not what people think they are. You might have some interesting things to say to them about that, in particular to that giant statue-shaped one you're chasing after.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Wait, I thought he was on paternal leave because he had a kid? Did they fire him than rehire on a contract?

He resigned and became a freelancer. Obsidian is his first client (I think).

Sweet nuts, that is just insane. Imagine trying to make a living as freelancer working at home while parenting an infant.

 

[FreeKaner]

It looks more like a glaive to me, Asians especially were find of blades on sticks.

A glaive is a polearm. The shaft is longer, uniform, and round in cross-section. Glaives are also single-edged. That one has a grip rather than a shaft with a metal counterweight for a pommel. The weapon looks about four, maybe four and a half feet long, tops; a glaive would be six feet long, perhaps more.

This is a glaive (naginata actually)

The shaft/blade proportions are quite different. It's clearly designed to be wielded with a different technique than the weapon Edér is holding. Chop two feet off the shaft and add a pommel/counterweight and you'll get something like a single-edged version of his weapon.

A "glaive" is anything with a blade and a long shaft really, it isn't a particularly descriptive term. Sure naginatas don't look like that weapon but nagamakis do, here is an example. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, just the point being was Lacrymas is rather inaccurate when claiming that the weapon is an ooga-booga savannah spear that is a "spear-sword lol".

 

[Immortal]

Wait, I thought he was on paternal leave because he had a kid? Did they fire him than rehire on a contract?

He resigned and became a freelancer. Obsidian is his first client (I think).

Sweet nuts, that is just insane. Imagine trying to make a living as freelancer working at home while parenting an infant.

Contracting is a pretty sweet gig if you can find the customers. You work a fraction of the hours for basically the same pay.
Anyone who is established in a profession should switch to freelancing / contracting. IMO.

You get tax write-offs and it gives you shitloads of free time. You have to be good though.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, I've done some freelancer work, mostly arranging songs for different instrumental groups, and it's pretty sweet. I got paid a lot for very few actual hours spent doing it, because transcription is a fairly easy and painless process once you are educated enough to know what and how to do it. You do need actual professional skills, though, so you aren't paid for something everyone can do.

 

[hilfazer]

It looks more like a glaive to me, Asians especially were find of blades on sticks.

A glaive is a polearm. The shaft is longer, uniform, and round in cross-section. Glaives are also single-edged. That one has a grip rather than a shaft with a metal counterweight for a pommel. The weapon looks about four, maybe four and a half feet long, tops; a glaive would be six feet long, perhaps more.

This is a glaive (naginata actually)

The shaft/blade proportions are quite different. It's clearly designed to be wielded with a different technique than the weapon Edér is holding. Chop two feet off the shaft and add a pommel/counterweight and you'll get something like a single-edged version of his weapon.

A "glaive" is anything with a blade and a long shaft really, it isn't a particularly descriptive term. Sure naginatas don't look like that weapon but nagamakis do, here is an example. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, just the point being was Lacrymas is rather inaccurate when claiming that the weapon is an ooga-booga savannah spear that is a "spear-sword lol".

Eder's weapon reminds me of this:
Jon Snow vs White Walker - what is that weapon? (game of thrones)

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't imagine Eder ever donning anything made from the skin of a killed animal :O

 

[Fry]

Contracting is a pretty sweet gig if you can find the customers. You work a fraction of the hours for basically the same pay.
Anyone who is established in a profession should switch to freelancing / contracting. IMO.

You get tax write-offs and it gives you shitloads of free time. You have to be good though.

Except in the US leaving a full time job means you have to start paying for health insurance. And it isn't cheap.

 

[Lacrymas]

Wow, The Game Analists is extra butthurt for some reason, mindlessly "retadred"-ing all my posts in the last 5 pages

 

[Background Character]

That sword also doubles as an anal toy, the guy using that is like "I need a sheet for my sword" and then put it his own ass or his friends ass

I mean it's like something you would see in a South Park game or Corruption of Champions

Pls kill me I used to be a good person

 

[Ulfhednar]

Hey, its me!! Dibs if this guy gets a portrait...

 

[santino27]

It's more interesting to talk about whether a particular protagonist adds value to the story. A protagonist who is aware of the true nature of the gods might have some interesting things to say when dealing with them.

That's (part of) what I meant - it would be really boring to have a second "THE GODS AREN'T REAL?!?!!", it's just not that interesting of a twist.

My issue isn't *really* with them using the same protagonist... it's with the fact that, by using the same protagonist and yet restarting everything at lvl 1 due to changed mechanics (and the fact that POE mechanics really broke down at high levels) , they forced themselves into a corner where they had to come up with a silly in-game reason for why that was.

(And again, even that is 'passable' to me... the sort of thing that seems dumb but you just accept and move on. But bringing back old companions, whose futures (and endings, in a lot of cases) were already revealed at the end of POE, seems a bridge too far to me.)