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Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Space Satan

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minors should act like minors. On the other side...
gSYeZOj.jpg
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Gist is that HoI3 without mods left NOTHING for minors to do at all (plus its licensed production was just fucked). HoI4 does by far the best in the series in this regard which is hugely important from a game viewpoint.

EDIT: Guess here, but I'd figure those are some very very small divisions? Since only other alternative is for Luxembourg to have gotten additional territory with extra manpower to Scrape.

EDIT2: And again, one of the reasons that makes HoI4 Kaiserreich so amazing is how it "balances" the globe and makes power gaps much smaller and number of potential powers far higher (in vanilla there's only one genuine potential SURPRISE! major which is Hungary going with the Habsburg restoration path and lucking out with world tension build-up rate), which is further assisted by the very welcome strangling of factions in favor of allowing for local wars. A big problem in vanilla and most mods is that after X amount of world tension every war will be subsumed into the big war going on, which drastically limits possibilities for unexpected developments.

That's really why Kaiserreich for HoI4 is just simply unmatched among HoI games, it's the only one that's built specifically around derailing. They present a start scenario, and after that EVERYTHING is up in the air and those deviations are fleshed out and made important. There's no sense of satisfactory "goals" to hit in vanilla or any other HoI game or mod in the same manner, or evolving "goals" like my personal example of starting a Sweden campaign with the purpose of creating a Nordic empire that was a constitutional monarchy, after which I then realized that "hey, I'mma see if I can swing the war against the Internationale singlehandedly for Mitteleuropa".
 
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Vaarna_Aarne isn't happy until Finland can beat the Soviets.

Real life minors did have problems keeping up in tech and production. Even Japan failed to keep up in stuff like Radar/Carrier/Aircraft with the USA, which is sort of the highest priority for their situation. They entered the war with really good stuff but by the end were outclassed everywhere.
 

Space Satan

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DD about...lots of things. Wow, they are making some radical changes
Hello everyone! Today we are going to be talking about National Unity, or rather the fact that it no longer exists…

National Unity
National Unity first made its appearance in Hearts of Iron III, basically as a mechanic to make France surrender at an appropriate time (when Paris fell essentially). It was largely moved over to HOI4 unchanged. While it does accomplish what we wanted it's also a very restrictive currency to work with design wise. A player who is winning doesn't really care what their NU is, making a lot of focus choices meaningless in those instances (or almost, there is always that time your country gets blanketed in nukes and someone dropping paras on one of your big cities seals the deal in multiplayer). We wanted to model different nations better and make sure we could do more interesting focuses and events where picking a loss of NU wasn't always the better choice compared to giving up, say, political power. So what's the answer?

Stability and War Support
These are two new values shown in the topbar that replace National Unity. Stability models the people's unity and support for the current government. War Support on the other hand represent the people’s support of war and of fully committing to fighting that war. As an example Britain in 1936 would be a pretty stable nation, but with very low war support. A nation like France would be much more unstable and with equally low war support, while Japan would have high war support and also high stability (mostly due to the emperor’s influence).

Stability average is 50% and nations with higher stability than that gain bonuses to industry, political power and consumer goods. Once you drop below 50% there are penalties instead as well as lowering your surrender limit (although nothing as extreme as how NU affected things). Strong party support helps increase stability, but being in a war - no matter how well supported - is going to lower your stability. Stability also works to protect against coups against your nation as well.

War Support has several passive effects and also limits several of the laws. You can’t switch to full War Economy without enough war support for example.

Note that in the picture below France is getting +30% war support because they have been attacked by Germany. An offensive war on the other hand for Germany actually hurts their war support. This comes with some interesting balancing effects:
  • Democracies challenging Germany early over Rhineland etc would put themselves as attackers, forcing them to fight hindered by the war support penalty.
  • Fascist or aggressive nations will generally have more initial war support but are likely to be surpassed by democracies in a defensive war when it comes to war support.
  • Defensive nations will be able to ramp up army sizes faster due to mobilization speed while attackers need to play a bit more carefully. The return of “national pride” from HOI3 in the form of combat bonuses on core territory will help here too.
Speaking of mobilization speed, you no longer get a chunk of manpower instantly when enacting conscription laws or other changes to recruitable manpower. Instead how quickly the manpower is made available by the law change is controlled by your mobilization speed. The higher the war support the faster new manpower trickles in.
index.php


The air war also affects things as successful enemy bombing (or nuking) will lower War Support. Shooting down enemy bombers will offset this somewhat, as people are seeing you fight back against the enemy.

Here is an example on what can happen in a nation with low war support and low stability in a war. The severity of these particular options depends on exactly how low your stability/war support are. Here it's pretty bad.
index.php


For Germany a good way of raising war support is to pull off its diplomatic expansions without being opposed:
index.php


War support is also affected by how your allies manage. If a major ally surrenders it will lower your war support, so make sure to keep your friends in the war. On the flip side successfully capitulating major enemies increases your war support.

There are also some new ways to affect War Support and Stability outside events, ministers and national focuses that we aren't ready to show off yet ;)

See you again next week!

Last edited: Today at 14:28
Reject reason to make the impossible possible!
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Bleh, those mechanics look like a massive nerf to minor nations that cannot go to war or ramp up stability/war support through focus trees.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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A welcome change in my opinion, National Unity was too simplistic.

EDIT: But yea, I agree that it also needs to be something that you can manage or affect outside of preset focus tree choices.

Vaarna_Aarne isn't happy until Finland can beat the Soviets.

Real life minors did have problems keeping up in tech and production. Even Japan failed to keep up in stuff like Radar/Carrier/Aircraft with the USA, which is sort of the highest priority for their situation. They entered the war with really good stuff but by the end were outclassed everywhere.
The problems really start in case of HoI3's leadership in that the game has an extremely large tech tree and you have a huge need for officers, whereas it massively hamstrings minors by not giving enough Leadership in the base game to cover even the basic needs adequately. Issue isn't so much that minors can't keep up with anything, issue is that minors can't even keep up with infantry techs and doctrines alone. In the base game even the lower end majors like Japan have a huge problem in this regard that they don't have even a chance at keeping up with the leadership demands they're expected to meet even if they prioritize. The only exception to this was Germany, who had so much leadership that Germany would end up having best and most advanced land, air, and sea forces with everything at minimum at date-penalty limits right down to using cutting edge carrier task forces without any costs. Well, assuming it wasn't one of the patches where submarines were battle-ninjas of the sea.

This I'd say is one aspect where HoI3 was a huge step back from HoI2 and why it was great that HoI4 rolled back towards HoI2 but with a twist of its own in decoupling IC and research slots. Now the mechanics encourage taking priorities rather than punish not being able to do everything at once like in HoI3. I suppos one bummer though is that the priorities are generally only slightly varied, like for instance fighter research is very unlikely to budge from its position of prominence in air research you need to do. Kaiserreich is also quite neat in this regard in that the scenario in KR has more varied geography play major roles since there are far more important conflict theaters across the globe, so you have more countries where priority might be with Marine or Mountaineer research above every other land division type thanks to Mongolia's surroundings being best managed with Mountaineers and Cavalry even before considering need for getting a lot with as few factories as possible.

Equipment is also a much better way of doing what Officer ratio was supposed to do.
 
Last edited:

Alexios

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Maybe I'm missing something but this manpower change doesn't seem to make any sense. In HOI, just because manpower is there doesn't mean you're immediately getting units. You still have to build them and wait months for them to be fielded. Mobilization speed made sense in Victoria 2, but here it just seems like a needless obstacle.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Well there is some basis in having it like that, since currently you essentially just up the conscription law when you need to for an instant influx of new reserves when your previous law is running out. So it takes a bit more foresight, which I approve of.

On the otherhand, I definately don't want to see a Victoria style manpower model, because in case of Victoria games the manpower model has bloat elements that are decidedly purely a chore and anti-fun. There's no reason to tie manpower to specific provinces and states so you end up needing to build new fucking regiments to replace ones that vanish because of their place of origin, rather than worrying about overall manpower. Also of note would be that mobilization forces in Victoria 2 are purely meatshields, since they are just infantry regiments, without artillery and cavalry (and later tanks and airplanes) and engineers and guard regiments you largely have them for the mega-occupation+encirclement human wave.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Btw, Progress Report 30 for next version of Kaiserreich is up, detailing the changes to countries outside of Africa, with reworked or new trees and events for Switzerland, Serbia, and Siam.
 

fantadomat

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DD about...lots of things. Wow, they are making some radical changes
Hello everyone! Today we are going to be talking about National Unity, or rather the fact that it no longer exists…

National Unity
National Unity first made its appearance in Hearts of Iron III, basically as a mechanic to make France surrender at an appropriate time (when Paris fell essentially). It was largely moved over to HOI4 unchanged. While it does accomplish what we wanted it's also a very restrictive currency to work with design wise. A player who is winning doesn't really care what their NU is, making a lot of focus choices meaningless in those instances (or almost, there is always that time your country gets blanketed in nukes and someone dropping paras on one of your big cities seals the deal in multiplayer). We wanted to model different nations better and make sure we could do more interesting focuses and events where picking a loss of NU wasn't always the better choice compared to giving up, say, political power. So what's the answer?

Stability and War Support
These are two new values shown in the topbar that replace National Unity. Stability models the people's unity and support for the current government. War Support on the other hand represent the people’s support of war and of fully committing to fighting that war. As an example Britain in 1936 would be a pretty stable nation, but with very low war support. A nation like France would be much more unstable and with equally low war support, while Japan would have high war support and also high stability (mostly due to the emperor’s influence).

Stability average is 50% and nations with higher stability than that gain bonuses to industry, political power and consumer goods. Once you drop below 50% there are penalties instead as well as lowering your surrender limit (although nothing as extreme as how NU affected things). Strong party support helps increase stability, but being in a war - no matter how well supported - is going to lower your stability. Stability also works to protect against coups against your nation as well.

War Support has several passive effects and also limits several of the laws. You can’t switch to full War Economy without enough war support for example.

Note that in the picture below France is getting +30% war support because they have been attacked by Germany. An offensive war on the other hand for Germany actually hurts their war support. This comes with some interesting balancing effects:
  • Democracies challenging Germany early over Rhineland etc would put themselves as attackers, forcing them to fight hindered by the war support penalty.
  • Fascist or aggressive nations will generally have more initial war support but are likely to be surpassed by democracies in a defensive war when it comes to war support.
  • Defensive nations will be able to ramp up army sizes faster due to mobilization speed while attackers need to play a bit more carefully. The return of “national pride” from HOI3 in the form of combat bonuses on core territory will help here too.
Speaking of mobilization speed, you no longer get a chunk of manpower instantly when enacting conscription laws or other changes to recruitable manpower. Instead how quickly the manpower is made available by the law change is controlled by your mobilization speed. The higher the war support the faster new manpower trickles in.
index.php


The air war also affects things as successful enemy bombing (or nuking) will lower War Support. Shooting down enemy bombers will offset this somewhat, as people are seeing you fight back against the enemy.

Here is an example on what can happen in a nation with low war support and low stability in a war. The severity of these particular options depends on exactly how low your stability/war support are. Here it's pretty bad.
index.php


For Germany a good way of raising war support is to pull off its diplomatic expansions without being opposed:
index.php


War support is also affected by how your allies manage. If a major ally surrenders it will lower your war support, so make sure to keep your friends in the war. On the flip side successfully capitulating major enemies increases your war support.

There are also some new ways to affect War Support and Stability outside events, ministers and national focuses that we aren't ready to show off yet ;)

See you again next week!

Last edited: Today at 14:28
Reject reason to make the impossible possible!
Hahahaha it seems that they played Kaiserreich.Fucking retarded swedes.I am curious if there is even one competent guy at their company.Their whole game history is copying other peoples work,and doing it poorly.It is really sad that there is not a competition on the market.
By the way does anyone knows when approximately the new version of kaiserreich will come out?I take it that it will come out some time after the next dlc-patch.
 

Alexios

Augur
Patron
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
444
DD about...lots of things. Wow, they are making some radical changes
Hello everyone! Today we are going to be talking about National Unity, or rather the fact that it no longer exists…

National Unity
National Unity first made its appearance in Hearts of Iron III, basically as a mechanic to make France surrender at an appropriate time (when Paris fell essentially). It was largely moved over to HOI4 unchanged. While it does accomplish what we wanted it's also a very restrictive currency to work with design wise. A player who is winning doesn't really care what their NU is, making a lot of focus choices meaningless in those instances (or almost, there is always that time your country gets blanketed in nukes and someone dropping paras on one of your big cities seals the deal in multiplayer). We wanted to model different nations better and make sure we could do more interesting focuses and events where picking a loss of NU wasn't always the better choice compared to giving up, say, political power. So what's the answer?

Stability and War Support
These are two new values shown in the topbar that replace National Unity. Stability models the people's unity and support for the current government. War Support on the other hand represent the people’s support of war and of fully committing to fighting that war. As an example Britain in 1936 would be a pretty stable nation, but with very low war support. A nation like France would be much more unstable and with equally low war support, while Japan would have high war support and also high stability (mostly due to the emperor’s influence).

Stability average is 50% and nations with higher stability than that gain bonuses to industry, political power and consumer goods. Once you drop below 50% there are penalties instead as well as lowering your surrender limit (although nothing as extreme as how NU affected things). Strong party support helps increase stability, but being in a war - no matter how well supported - is going to lower your stability. Stability also works to protect against coups against your nation as well.

War Support has several passive effects and also limits several of the laws. You can’t switch to full War Economy without enough war support for example.

Note that in the picture below France is getting +30% war support because they have been attacked by Germany. An offensive war on the other hand for Germany actually hurts their war support. This comes with some interesting balancing effects:
  • Democracies challenging Germany early over Rhineland etc would put themselves as attackers, forcing them to fight hindered by the war support penalty.
  • Fascist or aggressive nations will generally have more initial war support but are likely to be surpassed by democracies in a defensive war when it comes to war support.
  • Defensive nations will be able to ramp up army sizes faster due to mobilization speed while attackers need to play a bit more carefully. The return of “national pride” from HOI3 in the form of combat bonuses on core territory will help here too.
Speaking of mobilization speed, you no longer get a chunk of manpower instantly when enacting conscription laws or other changes to recruitable manpower. Instead how quickly the manpower is made available by the law change is controlled by your mobilization speed. The higher the war support the faster new manpower trickles in.
index.php


The air war also affects things as successful enemy bombing (or nuking) will lower War Support. Shooting down enemy bombers will offset this somewhat, as people are seeing you fight back against the enemy.

Here is an example on what can happen in a nation with low war support and low stability in a war. The severity of these particular options depends on exactly how low your stability/war support are. Here it's pretty bad.
index.php


For Germany a good way of raising war support is to pull off its diplomatic expansions without being opposed:
index.php


War support is also affected by how your allies manage. If a major ally surrenders it will lower your war support, so make sure to keep your friends in the war. On the flip side successfully capitulating major enemies increases your war support.

There are also some new ways to affect War Support and Stability outside events, ministers and national focuses that we aren't ready to show off yet ;)

See you again next week!

Last edited: Today at 14:28
Reject reason to make the impossible possible!
Hahahaha it seems that they played Kaiserreich.Fucking retarded swedes.I am curious if there is even one competent guy at their company.Their whole game history is copying other peoples work,and doing it poorly.It is really sad that there is not a competition on the market.
By the way does anyone knows when approximately the new version of kaiserreich will come out?I take it that it will come out some time after the next dlc-patch.
The devs are saying it's supposed to be out by the end of the month, but they have a reputation for taking way longer.
 

Space Satan

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Infrastructure, and synthetic refinery rework DD
Hi everyone and welcome back to a new dev diary. We are continuing work on the upcoming 1.5 “Cornflakes” and unannounced expansion. Today we are going to be talking about changes to synthetic refineries and resources.

Synthetic Refineries
Synthetic refineries are a great way to get access to oil and rubber for nations that end up on unfriendly terms with a lot of their neighbours (*cough* Germany *cough*). The technologies for them were however in need of some updating. Most people would only bother with the first to unlock the building unless they were a very small nation (and if so probably not a big consumer of those resources). It also felt unfair that nations that had plenty of one resource and lacked the other would need to do the same investment as someone who lacked both. Even if you had some of each, there was no good way of balancing output and you’d usually end up with a surplus of one or a deficiency in the other. To deal with this we now unlock 3 building levels at once, but the initial output of the refinery is much lower. We have then removed the previous 3 techs giving more levels and replaced them with 8 new techs that increase the output of your chosen resource. That means that if you only need more rubber you only need to research the Rubber Processing techs and can skip the Oil Processing.
index.php


Resources & Infrastructure
This is something we have been wanting to do for a long time. Each level of infrastructure now adds +10% resources in those states. This means that we can have resource amounts that actually grow later in the game. This should give you more reasons to upgrade low infrastructure areas to take advantage of the resources there, and will also allow bombing to impact normal resource gathering and not just refineries. A low infrastructure area with resources is now a great opportunity for expansion.

Together with this change we have improved the construction interface.
index.php


You can now see where resources are located and how much they are impacted. You can also see building slots which makes it so much easier to find the best places to build infrastructure without having to jump between map modes.

Resource mapmode now also indicates effect from infrastructure damage so you can spot potentially important areas for repair:
index.php


We have been rebalancing resource numbers across the world to go with this change. Numbers aren't done yet but I figure I’d spend the rest of the diary showing some areas to explain what we are working with.

index.php

British Malaya and Singapore are nerfed, but are both low infra allowing for a lot of expansion.

index.php

USA has a lot of areas where investing in infrastructure will help them grow into a monster. Texan oil for example.

index.php

As seen above, Japan has several opportunities to improve local resources now.

index.php

France generally got a bit of a resource nerf as it had a lot of very high areas and is also at decent infrastructure level.

index.php

Northern Sweden still has precious tungsten which can be expanded to help Germa...accurately simulate Sweden's complicated role in the war.

index.php

Brazil now has the potential to be a true rubber king (is that even a word?) if invested in. Same goes for some other nations in south america, like tungsten from Bolivia.

This should shake up the resource play a bit we hope. See you all next week for more updates!
 

fantadomat

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All this work for a shitty vanilla.How about fixing everything else before playing around with some basic shit and calling it a day.You can change the provincial resources faster than writing that pointless dev diary.Fucking lazy swedes.I hope their company get raped by rapefugees.
 

Ventidius

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Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
Kaiserreich 0.5 Heia Safari is out now.
Wouldn't recommend trying it just yet though - rather buggy and some of the major events don't work.

Haven't tried Kaiserreich for HoI4 yet, but want to do so. Are the bugs that bad? And if so, is it for all factions? I generally don't mind so long as there isn't anything game-breaking.
 
Last edited:

fantadomat

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Kaiserreich 0.5 Heia Safari is out now.
Wouldn't recommend trying it just yet though - rather buggy and some of the major events don't work.

Haven't tried Kaiserreich for HoI4 yet, but wanted to do so. Are the bugs that bad? And if so, is it for all factions? I generally don't mind long as there isn't anything game-breaking.
Bugs are far more tolerable than vanilla bugs.Also factions are not that important.Would recommend playing as Russia,it is crazy fun.If you decide to play as Russia i will give you a pointer that all the stupid YT players missed.Don't try accumulating political power,and always have active focus.You get more from completing focuses than from saving pp.Another fun country is Mongol empire and Genghis Khan the reincarnation.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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The bugs in this regard are not really "bugs immemorial," but rather bugs specific to the new big update (this one is, since they did major national focus and event rework, which is the place where bugs happen; plus a performance improvement) to the mod. Hence why as mentioned earlier one should wait for the hotfix so they get around to fixing typos and mismatches in events and focuses. Last big version for example had a CTD in the Lithunian focus tree's events which accidentally caused Lithuania to try to puppet itself.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Messages
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index.php



Does the hands of people in Paradox sear and burn when they get their hands on a book of brazilian geography, or when they type "Brazilian State Map" on google?

Because that's not Maranhão... not quite. I can recognize when the Tocantins and the Araguaia meet (also, my entire macro-region). Like, only half or so of this province is Maranhão, the other half is a (badly-rendered) Pará.

I still remember those prospertastic Vicky2 brazilian provinces. Strange, because HOI2 Pará looked ok.

Also Paradox cannot into fucking tildes, but somehow they can into umlats. This ins't 1998 people, EVERYONE has multi-character support nowdays.

All of the non-Europe maps are incredibly half-assed tbh.
 

thesheeep

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Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The worst part about all vanilla Paradox games are the maps.
Seriously, I couldn't imagine playing EUIV with all its inaccuracies of the vanilla map.

I mean, this isn't even incompetence, it is laziness. Mods add shitloads of provinces, usually, and run fine if they don't overdo it - so that's not an excuse.

Thankfully, Stellaris doesn't have maps per se :lol:
 

fantadomat

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Paradox have the worst fanbase.They are just a bunch sheep that pay mindlessly for every shitty dlc and then whine on the forums. Those people deserve to be milked for every coin they have.I was just looking at the chars of stellaris and saw that every time there is a new dlc,most retards buy it and play it for 2-3 weeks.Even if the dlc is empty.
 

Alexios

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Messages
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Kaiserreich 0.5 Heia Safari is out now.
Wouldn't recommend trying it just yet though - rather buggy and some of the major events don't work.

Haven't tried Kaiserreich for HoI4 yet, but want to do so. Are the bugs that bad? And if so, is it for all factions? I generally don't mind so long as there isn't anything game-breaking.
As Vaarne_Aarne said they're specific to this update, but you should also be aware that the devs made a pretty idiotic change to production costs that makes minors nearly unplayable. Thankfully they've said they'll remove it in a hotfix.
 

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