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RTS Replaying Warcraft III

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
So no rumblings on WC4 then? With SC2 winding down it would be an obvious next move for Blizzard...
WC3 remaster. Blizzard has been patching WC3, and allegedly we will get another balance patch.
 

MilesBeyond

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So no rumblings on WC4 then? With SC2 winding down it would be an obvious next move for Blizzard...

I don't know. I remember a while back a few of the SC2 staff were moved to an undisclosed strategy game (that wasn't SC1 Remastered), so it's a possibility. At the same time, who knows. Apparently Heroes of the Storm has somehow been lumped into the strategy category, but let's hope it's not that.

Sadly, however, I feel like Warcraft has pulled a reverse Might and Magic where the RPG has so eclipsed the strategy games that they probably won't go back, and if they do it'll be like Might and Magic X. Not the worst thing in the world, certainly, but kinda token.

I also feel like SC2 ended up being the story they were hoping to tell with the Warcraft franchise before WoW happened, so there's that. I mean Amon is basically Sargeras, Kerrigan became Space Arthas, it turned out that the Zerg weren't evil after all they were just being manipulated by an evil force, end of the universe awakening of evil ancient force, etc etc.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
From what I remember from WoW, Sargeras wouldn't be Amon. Amon wanted to kill the universe, because immortality sucked (super emo reason). Sargeras wants to kill anything that could be used by the shadow/lovecraftian gods to infect the universe and gain a foothold, similar to the Forerunners trying to exterminate the Flood in the Halo series. I believe that has been Sargeras' motivation since the WC3 manual. #SargerasDidNothingWrong. If anything the lovecraftian gods in WoW would be Amon. Illidan would be more like Kerrigan, but blizzard did a bait and switch just recently.

In my mind, it would be easier if WC4 took place well after the events of WoW, and just treated it like some mythical age. That way it is not completely dependent on WoW.
 
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Bake

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Feb 14, 2012
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On principle i hate the cosmic retcons that comics sometimes pull, but at this point i wouldn’t really mind one of those when it comes to the warcraft universe. Some shenanigans with time travel or something. Negating most lore post TFT could only bring incline.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Personally, I think the game would benefit from breaking up the factions a little and toning down the magic/steampunk. Obviously, that cannot happen in WoW for gameplay reasons.
 

Citizen

Guest
At first i read the title as "roleplaying warcraft 3" and was going to give an advice.
 

SwiftCrack

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I'm actually replaying the original campaign too, I'm at the part where you play Illidan (so almost done actually).

Normal though, hard just made me rage quit during the UD campaign final map :negative:
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Is that the one you need to defend Kel'Thuzad for 30 minutes? The Steam Engines pissed me off, but otherwise massing necromancers (spammed Cripple) won the day.

If you replay TFT also, definitely try it on Hard. It is a rush, especially the first and last mission of the UD campaign.
 

SwiftCrack

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Yeah it's the 30 min defend KT mission. Somehow I keep rage-quitting because the NW part of my base keeps getting overrun on hard, and I keep having to send Arthas+units there, weakening my presence around KT's platform.

I'm gonna try with this guy's strategy, using Necropolisses instead of Ziggurats, it seems to work well for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ird-uIFG_k
 

Metro

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From what I remember from WoW, Sargeras wouldn't be Amon. Amon wanted to kill the universe, because immortality sucked (super emo reason). Sargeras wants to kill anything that could be used by the shadow/lovecraftian gods to infect the universe and gain a foothold, similar to the Forerunners trying to exterminate the Flood in the Halo series. I believe that has been Sargeras' motivation since the WC3 manual. #SargerasDidNothingWrong. If anything the lovecraftian gods in WoW would be Amon. Illidan would be more like Kerrigan, but blizzard did a bait and switch just recently.

In my mind, it would be easier if WC4 took place well after the events of WoW, and just treated it like some mythical age. That way it is not completely dependent on WoW.
From what I recall there was no concept of 'the void' (at least as the antithesis to the light) in pre-WoW. And in WC3 lore Sargeras didn't create the Legion as such, it was the Eredar who were originally demonic and they somehow corrupted Sargeras. This was flipped when they expanded on the whole Draenei thing in WoW's first expansion.

The concept of the 'Void Lords' as superiors to the Old Gods didn't come about until that Chronicle book was published a couple of years ago (sometime during Warlords of Draenor).
 
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Yeah it's the 30 min defend KT mission. Somehow I keep rage-quitting because the NW part of my base keeps getting overrun on hard, and I keep having to send Arthas+units there, weakening my presence around KT's platform.

I'm gonna try with this guy's strategy, using Necropolisses instead of Ziggurats, it seems to work well for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ird-uIFG_k

I remember spamming mostly Aboms for that mission with a few crypt fiends to tie up the air. Just don't be afraid to go into heavy upkeep. Having 75 supply of army and losing 10 in a tough battle is way better then having 45 supply and losing 20.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
From what I remember from WoW, Sargeras wouldn't be Amon. Amon wanted to kill the universe, because immortality sucked (super emo reason). Sargeras wants to kill anything that could be used by the shadow/lovecraftian gods to infect the universe and gain a foothold, similar to the Forerunners trying to exterminate the Flood in the Halo series. I believe that has been Sargeras' motivation since the WC3 manual. #SargerasDidNothingWrong. If anything the lovecraftian gods in WoW would be Amon. Illidan would be more like Kerrigan, but blizzard did a bait and switch just recently.

In my mind, it would be easier if WC4 took place well after the events of WoW, and just treated it like some mythical age. That way it is not completely dependent on WoW.
From what I recall there was no concept of 'the void' (at least as the antithesis to the light) in pre-WoW. And in WC3 lore Sargeras didn't create the Legion as such, it was the Eredar who were originally demonic and they somehow corrupted Sargeras. This was flipped when they expanded on the whole Draenei thing in WoW's first expansion.

The concept of the 'Void Lords' as superiors to the Old Gods didn't come about until that Chronicle book was published a couple of years ago (sometime during Warlords of Draenor).
I need to dig out my WC3 manual (I still have it...somewhere). I could have sworn Sargeras saw the current universe as a mistake that needed a reboot, although it did not mention the void as the reason. You are correct about the Eredar retcon, although I do like the Draenei. At the time, I thought the Draenei were a nice reversal of usual the WoW pattern, where each "good guy" race had an evil subfaction, such defias, dragonmaw orcs, dark iron dwarves, grimtotem tauren, etc. Here, the Eredar remained a bunch of irredeemable assholes, but they have a more benign offshoot with the Draenei. Also, I thought the Draenei were a better instance of a race living past its glory days. Unlike other "dying race" cliques, they actually seem capable of rebuiling and doing something about it.
 

Dzupakazul

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I recently finished RoC on hard myself. The final Undead mission is definitely the hardest of them all. I ended up getting as many bases as I could from the start, and then I surrounded KT with a whole bunch of Necropolia (basically a beefier and stronger tower) to try and preserve No/Low Upkeep for as long as possible, until I could replenish losses from multiple factories instantly. It was still tough as shit. In comparison final Orc mission was nowhere near bad, and the final NE mission can be dealt with by going Mass Archers and a few Druids of the Claw for Roars. Thrall's camp fell when I still had 8 minutes on the clock.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Speaking of the final NE mission, I saw a guy beat it with no bases lost. He used the goblin mines in mass bought from the Goblin merchants just north of your base. You just spam the mines and archers (to an extent).
 

SwiftCrack

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That's pretty sick, I lost the human and orc bases (they didn't breach my base at all though, not even when Archimonde spawned), but I did complete the mission on my first try (again on normal still).

Moving on to the TFT campaign now which I played little when it was released. Started with the Rexxar bonus mission (which is literally WoW 0.1 quests and farming)
 

MilesBeyond

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I'm actually replaying the original campaign too, I'm at the part where you play Illidan (so almost done actually).

Normal though, hard just made me rage quit during the UD campaign final map :negative:

It still bothers me how rushed the NE campaign feels. It's all normal, awaken the Druids, Illidan does his thing, then just an abrupt out-of-nowhere Last Stand Against Archimonde. There's no build-up at all other than an implied council of war between the three races. You don't even get to build Chimerae in it. It kinda feels like they had originally planned to do another mission in there, maybe like a "lay some major smackdown on the demons to force Archimonde to make his move" thing, but then they ran out of time. The campaign is even one mission shorter than others.

And yeah, like you said, the last Undead mission becomes super easy once you discover the magic of Necropoli. Just have 3-4 Halls of the Dead on each front with a few Acoyltes to repair them and you're golden. I can't even remember what I did for my army. Prolly Aboms and Crypts. Man, Crypt Fiends are possibly my favourite unit in that game.

Also, I'm gonna out myself and admit that I actually like the steampunk elements of Warcraft 3 - mostly because it was limited to the Humans and gave them a unique feel and flavour, rather than going for the typical "Hello, we are Humans, our thing is that we don't have a thing." That being said, I preferred the aesthetic in Warcraft 2. Warcraft 2 was stealth steampunk - it didn't feel steampunk, and it wasn't until you sat down and thought about it that you were like "Oh yeah, I guess it was steampunk, wasn't it?" WC3 kinda took it a bit too far. I feel like they realized that though and that's why TWT renamed Gyrocopters and Steam Tanks to Flying Machines and Siege Engines hahaha.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
That's pretty sick, I lost the human and orc bases (they didn't breach my base at all though, not even when Archimonde spawned), but I did complete the mission on my first try (again on normal still).

Moving on to the TFT campaign now which I played little when it was released. Started with the Rexxar bonus mission (which is literally WoW 0.1 quests and farming)

Even with the goblin mine strategy, the best I could do was save the Orc base (on hard).

The Rexxar campaign was fun, especially the later levels when you become a murder machine. I wish Blizzard released more campaigns (Rexxar or otherwise).
 

Nahel

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It's funny, I had no problem completing the NE last mission in hard, even saving the human base but the human defense of the small village was my nigthmare in hard. Won it by hiding farms in retarded places and playing like a tower defense lol. But War 3 and its custom maps were like the golden age of strategy for me. So many good maps and fun mods.
 

Dawkinsfan69

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FUCK BLI$$ARD!!!

I hate them because they're so successful. They make such crap grindfest design decisions and people eat it up and other companies copy the shit grindfest design and then the entire industry is ruined.

How many lame ass micro-transaction card games do we have now? How long has it been since someone's made a half way decent RTS? Or an MMO actually designed to be played with people? How many future shooters do you think are going to be piece of shit OW rip-offs now?

Thank god PoE devs have enough balls to contrast D3 at least...

BTW WC3 campaign is boring AF.

/rant


(multiplayer is good tho especially custom maps but don't tell any1 I said that)
 

SwiftCrack

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I remember playing (I think) a custom Naga campaign with heroes over a decade ago but I can't find much of it now.

EDIT: Scratch that, it was just some half-assed stuff with one map.
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
If you are looking for more custom campaigns, give Curse of the Forsaken and Rise of the Blood Elves a chance. The campaigns loosely take place during Wrath of the Lich King and Burning Crusade WoW expansions. I would not call the stories amazing, but the missions provided decent entertainment (Forsaken and Blood Elf themed armies and heroes).

There also is Warden,which is a Zelda ripoff, but apparently decent. Otherwise, I have been meaning to try Until the Bitter End (I think it's called that).
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
From what I recall there was no concept of 'the void' (at least as the antithesis to the light) in pre-WoW. And in WC3 lore Sargeras didn't create the Legion as such, it was the Eredar who were originally demonic and they somehow corrupted Sargeras. This was flipped when they expanded on the whole Draenei thing in WoW's first expansion.

The concept of the 'Void Lords' as superiors to the Old Gods didn't come about until that Chronicle book was published a couple of years ago (sometime during Warlords of Draenor).

I found a WC3 manual and it is interesting how much I forgot. It does not mention the Void, but it does mention the shadow. Specifically, the passage reads, "As his confusion and depression deepened, Sargeras was forced to content with another group intent on disrupting the Titans' order. The Nathrezim, a dark race of vampiric demons (also known as Dreadlords) set out to conquer a populated world by possessing its inhabitants and turning them to the shadow . . . Though Sargeras defeated the Nathrezim easily, their corruption affected him deeply." Later on it states that Sargeras saw the Titans' intervention across the universe as cancerous.

The Shadow/Void was its own faction back in WC3, but I do not believe Blizzard picked back up on the Dreadlord/Shadow connection until the chronicle.

I fulfilled my autism quota for the day.
 

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