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Dude compiles data: Median indie Steam game makes $341.

Nathaniel3W

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The data linked above only include indie games released from June-August. I just checked SteamSpy out of curiosity. That game doesn't seem to be listed. If not enough people own the game, it may not show up in SteamSpy.
 
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Davaris

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Google doc explaining assumptions, includes data.

Top 1% make 63% of the money. Top 10% make 95% of the money. Median game makes $341, not accounting for a bunch of stuff. Actual take-home figures are probably 20-40% less than shown.

Grimoire revenue estimated at $139,000.

Yup, yup. Exactly like gold mining. The people who generally got rich weren't the miners, they were the ones who sold the miners supplies.

I read about the makers of Angry Birds and they made something like 50 games and went broke. So they decided to make one more game before calling it quits and they made Angry Birds. Iteration, iteration.

How much did Daredevil Donut Lad make

I've seen a few people try making a casual game as a way to fund the game they really wanted to make. It didn't work out.
 
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Bester

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I don't see Factorio (1 mill owners), Project Genom (would've been top #11 in Naive Revenue), Medieval Engineers, etc etc. List is shit, conclusions are distorted and wrong.
 

epeli

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Well. This is interesting, but the data is wildly inaccurate. Many zero or low selling items (at least on the 2017 list) appear to be tiny or free DLCs, soundtracks and similar goods rather than games. It's only a 2-month sample (most of the actual games listed have had sales outside that timeframe) and the change in owners appears to be based on steamspy stats, which can be off by as much as +-50% according to steamspy itself.

Who's the author of this? Maybe he'll make refined versions in the future.
 

Guy de Incognito

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It's very close to winner take all, same as with books or music or pretty much everything else that isn't constrained by supply or geography.
The winners are very visible, the losers not so much, so it seems the odds are better than they really are.
If you care about a stable or reliable income, indie game development is not for you.
 

Nathaniel3W

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epeli SteamSpy is less accurate for smaller games. And that's most of what you get when you're looking at only indie games (or as you point out, DLC or music or whatever, just so long as it's tagged with "indie"). Unfortunately, I don't know of any other place that provides better data on video game ownership.
 

epeli

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Anyways, I think saying median indie makes only $341 paints an unrealistically grim picture.

Inaccurate estimates aside, it's just the first month of sales and if the list didn't include all that miscellania, the median would be much higher. If we discount stuff with zero sales, that reasonably limits the list to actual indie games and the 2017 median rises to $2213. Not too bad. And that figure still includes many low-effort hackjob games and stuff that would fare better on itch.io.
 

Jasede

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How many books have you written? And how many have you published? How many games have you made? Do you have a good basis of comparison? How much software development have you done? How much writing? Do you have any short stories we can read?

Etc., etc.

I mean, you wouldn't make such a statement just based on gut feeling, would you? That'd be pretty feelz.
 
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Davaris

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I am still convinced you are trolling. Have you ever looked at the credits of a book vs a game? What did you see?

Credits on a AAA book: Thanks to my cat, dead grandma, or family for putting up with me.

Credits on a AAA game: Do you have 10 minutes to see them all?
 

Jasede

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You do realize ~85% or so of these Steam indies are made by one guy in a basement with GameMaker, right? I understand perfectly well making an indie game can be hard work, even with just a single dev, but the thread is about averages. And on average the trash on Steam is clobbered together over a month with some Unity build-your-game kit.

Now of course, a book can also be written in a week if you really want to - hell, one of Steven King's bestselling books was written in just one week in one go - but you should see my point.

Even if you don't see my point, how do you quantify work? Hours spent? Some books take decades, so that can't be it. Man hours spent, as is, calculate down per capita (thus making giving the edge to anything involving multiple people?) If you do that you hit my former point: that the vast majority of indie games on Steam are 1-man trash.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So I just went and checked for new releases on Steam.

Whoa, there's like a dozen RPG Maker games that look significantly worse than some RPG Maker games that you can download for free, and they cost only 2 euros!

Yeah, I'd be surprised if a game like that made even 100 bucks.
 
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Davaris

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You do realize ~85% or so of these Steam indies are made by one guy in a basement with GameMaker, right? I understand perfectly well making an indie game can be hard work, even with just a single dev, but the thread is about averages. And on average the trash on Steam is clobbered together over a month with some Unity build-your-game kit.

Now of course, a book can also be written in a week if you really want to - hell, one of Steven King's bestselling books was written in just one week in one go - but you should see my point.

Even if you don't see my point, how do you quantify work? Hours spent? Some books take decades, so that can't be it. Man hours spent, as is, calculate down per capita (thus making giving the edge to anything involving multiple people?) If you do that you hit my former point: that the vast majority of indie games on Steam are 1-man trash.

And none of the trash, as you call it, sells.

AAA books can be made by one man. Most generally are. That means any person can compete with any other author on the market.

AAA games cannot be made by one man. Teams with 5 or 6 hundred people working over several years are needed, which means hundreds of man years go into them.

AAA games are as big as movies. To say the cost of a movie with hundreds of people working on it, is the same as the cost of one man working on a book would be ludicrous.

I'm not putting down authors if that is what you are thinking. I'm pointing out you have more of a chance at the big time than indie game makers do, because you're on an equal playing field.
 
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Rhuantavan

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IMO if you want to make any money with indie games, you either need to find yourself a niche, or invest into ridiculously high production values.
 

Agesilaus

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Aye hold up

So you're telling me, you're saying,

That my indie game won't make me filthy rich?

*deletes gamemaker studio*
 

MRY

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Here is my favorite dumb reaction:
With this addressed, Galyonkin's figures show that the number of indie games releasing on Steam is continuing to rise, but revenues for the average developer fail to match that growth. ... The total naive sales showed a 49% increase over 2015 to 2.9m copies shifted, and total naive revenue rose by 25% to $28m. However, this is where the growth ends. ... [F]or the average developer, statistics are a bit more disappointing.
Literally the entire article reads like the guy thinks that price rises with supply, and that something really weird is going on, because in this Twilight Zone of indie gaming, a glut of supply is modestly reducing price.

As for the overall state of affairs, I've written my views about it here before, but I still think this is all a little silly. The median indie game on Steam is objectively terrible, and still manages to make $350. In this case, the two games on either side of the median threshold are Lycah (an RPGMaker game that "is an episodic saga from the team behind the Thorne series that puts you in the role of Lycah, a young woman troubled by her past") and Chicken Labyrinth Puzzles (a 10-level, early-access Unity game with stock art in which you guide a chicken through mazes, described by one reviewer as the product of a programmer completing "a maze tutorial"). Here are some screenshots of other median-level games:
ss_1b12f41e27cb7d7730d9efe6eaaa5924e69d12f1.600x338.jpg

ss_525329e32440744d8b9e752fdc78002eadbefcab.600x338.jpg

ss_b5310b8f4ea9052848d0ac37714a37429f023a58.1920x1080.jpg
If anything, it's extraordinary to me that the median income is greater than zero (incidentally, the median number of citations for a law review article). Who pays for any of these games?!

There was a period in which Steam maintained a cartel for indie developers, and if you were part of the cartel, you benefited enormously. Steam relaxed the system to remove the cartel aspects, and now people make less, but many more people can participate. Probably the people most hurt by this were those who just barely squeaked in under the old cartel system. But low-performing indie games of today don't have any valid claim for injury; they wouldn't have made it over the Greenlight hurdle and thus never would've benefited from the cartel system. The idea that these absurd games would have (let alone should have) thrived in 2012 seems dubious to say the least.

As for the book vs. games argument, I think Davaris is somewhat right with respect to the present e-book market, but until very recently a book required a huge industry to bring it to market -- not just the writer, editor, agent, publicist, cover artist, proofreaders, but also all the business people who are responsible for the supply chain of printing, binding, shipping, etc. the books, not to mention the screening apparatus to separate wheat from chaff as manuscripts come in. Ebooks have made it easier to get into the market, but I'm not sure that books are "easier to make." I know I spent a huge number of hours writing novels (which never sold at all), short stories (which sold, but mostly for pittances) in hopes of getting a pedigree to get me an agent who could sell my novels, cover letters to said agents and short-story markets, etc., etc., none of which yielded anything. My hours invested in writing that crap far exceeds the hours I spent on Primordia, but I made ~100 times as much on Primordia as I made on those books/stories/poems. Overall, I've probably now spent more time making games than writing fiction, but I've made ~250 times as much on games as on fiction. I suspect you'd find this is true for lots of folks because, at least for a time, it was stupidly easy to get a game design job or to sell indie titles for good money, but basically impossible to make money writing genre fiction. (I remember learning at one point that a successful fantasy author I admired made <$100k a year working full-time at it. Perfectly fine money, but not what you expect near the top of the heap -- a tiny fraction of what, say, WEG brings in for Dave a year, let alone what runaway indie successes make.)
 
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Davaris

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I considered all the support staff that go into getting an old fashioned book out there, but then realized they would work on lots of books while the author finishes one book. So they are an industry that parasites off the author. Whereas on a game, programmers, artists, scripters, designers, and so on, put a lot of effort into the game. And for most of them, it costs a lot to learn those skills.

Its not surprising to me that the bottom dropped out of Steam, because it has happened with every portal that has ever existed. It always ends in a race to the bottom.

I've said it a couple times here, that authors should resist the easy money lure of the portals and build up their own communities, because the good times won't last and you are only giving your community to Steam. The Spiderweb dude used to say the same thing until he finally caved.

The top fantasy author not making that much? Well the market must be diluted. There are so many good dead authors to choose from, and old books don't date like old games do. You can get great books free in the library and elsewhere online if they are out of copyright. So yeah, hard to make a living unless you have amazing skills, but you can still compete with AAA authors, you just have to be as skilled as they are. You also have to be good at selling yourself.
 
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lukaszek

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deterministic system > RNG
 
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