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KickStarter Apocalypse Now RPG by Monty Markland - terminated with extreme prejudice!

Aenra

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MLMarkland respect. I take that back then and happily call me mistaken :)

You never know sometimes, huh..
 

LESS T_T

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So... a game deign document: https://apocalypsenow.com/updates/update-18-prototype-access-the-official

UPDATE #18 - PROTOTYPE ACCESS & THE OFFICIAL APOCALYPSE NOW GAME DESIGN DOCUMENT
The GDD is linked at end of post.

Join the Apocalypse Now Discord Chat
https://discord.gg/rHXzk8D

Prototype Access for Backers
We’ve improved the pledge tiers. You now get prototype access faster.

Everyone from $155 tier and above gets access to the game prototype. Your access to the prototype will be in order of tier. Higher tiers get the prototype faster. Lower tiers get the prototype 2 months later per tier.

Combined with the free upgrade for the first 3,000 Backers, you can get prototype access for $95 right now.

Official Apocalypse Now Game Design Document
A link to the official Apocalypse Now game design document:

https://app.box.com/s/ipuvpk98nf1cnqat50iyg3zhi68xfapw

9/11/17
https://www.911memorial.org/
 

Bester

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The main game will ship with single-player only. But we will patch
in a multiplayer mode post-launch depending on commercial outcomes.
Lol.
It's not like the entire game has to be coded with multiplayer in mind from the start, no. You can just "patch it in".
 

Bester

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You can view detailed sales outcomes in the “Discounted Cash Flow Estimate Statement” if desired. We use the mid-line and baseline estimate of 1,000,000 units spread across three primary platforms and two secondary platforms.
Lol. Kickstarter results didn't teach you anything.

a50f9ee2a91c0fc4b16d1ead1b531b51.png

In the times when the Chinese are top1 or top2 owners for games that have a Chinese translation, you decide to go with what used to be the standard 10 years ago like the French and the German.

And to seriously spend any money on the VR port, which will be a tough port to make, when VR owners amount to the same numbers (~ 0.70% steam users) as Windows XP owners in 2017, you must be joking.

The incompetence of all departments is just seeping through the cracks of this document.

Everyone knows all those ridiculous marketing department stories like Interplay's marketing refused to work with Baldur's Gate because they deemed it absolutely unsellable in Europe. Well, good to see that the industry isn't a learning animal and keeps listening to the exact same people. Keep it at, bring closer the industry crash. The sooner it happens, the better.
 
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MLMarkland

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You can view detailed sales outcomes in the “Discounted Cash Flow Estimate Statement” if desired. We use the mid-line and baseline estimate of 1,000,000 units spread across three primary platforms and two secondary platforms.
Lol. Kickstarter results didn't teach you anything.

In the times when the Chinese are top1 or top2 owners for games that have a Chinese translation, you decide to go with what used to be the standard 10 years ago like the French and the German.

And to seriously spend any money on the VR port, which will be a tough port to make, when VR owners amount to the same numbers (~ 0.70% steam users) as Windows XP owners in 2017, you must be joking.

The incompetence of all departments is just seeping through the cracks of this document.

We Don't Care About China

The game will be banned in China. The localization is based on 8 months of google analytics information, hard data. We will not sell a single copy in China ever.

We Do Care About Poland

Our localization targets are based on the hard data of where our backers, fans, and people who are interested are located geographically. Poland front-runs other European countries for example. The localization list is driven purely by the hard data collected over the past two years. I'd localize it to Farsi if I thought we'd have a big Farsi audience.

The Masters of VR Will do the VR

The people handling the VR port (if we do it) are Framestore the most successful and experienced VR company on the planet.

The main game will ship with single-player only. But we will patch
in a multiplayer mode post-launch depending on commercial outcomes.
Lol.
It's not like the entire game has to be coded with multiplayer in mind from the start, no. You can just "patch it in".

Free Multiplayer for Game Owners

We do design the multiplayer from the ground up. We do build things to support multiplayer from the beginning. Patch refers to updating the game to add the multiplayer mode that was already designed, partially built, fully built with the revenue from the launch. Patch implies, but we can be more specific, that it will be free for existing owners of the game.

Free is the purpose of mentioning the word patch. You get something for free. Gratis.

Kickstarter is dead.

Kickstarter is dead except for board games and card games. It has been dying for 3 years. We spent 2016 building our website because we knew Kickstarter was dead.

The only thing Kickstarter taught us was that Kickstarter is the Myspace of board games. The website is the main focus, always has been, always will be. Kickstarter was a side note.

EDIT
Lawrence Liberty is our executive producer. He produced DC: Universe Online, an MMO. He has worked on many MMOs. Our multiplayer plans are radically more simple. Our team leads have as much multiplayer experience as anyone on the planet (Arma3, Call of Duty, Battlefield, many MMOs, Gears of War, other unnamed titles). The idea that there is any scope issue or risk issue here is absurd.

EDIT2
The referenced Apocalypse Now game design document:

https://app.box.com/file/223063708617
 
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thesheeep

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We Don't Care About China

The game will be banned in China. The localization is based on 8 months of google analytics information, hard data. We will not sell a single copy in China ever.
Why?
I know a lot of stuff is generally banned in China, is the whole Vietnam topic one of these things?
 

MLMarkland

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We Don't Care About China

The game will be banned in China. The localization is based on 8 months of google analytics information, hard data. We will not sell a single copy in China ever.
Why?
I know a lot of stuff is generally banned in China, is the whole Vietnam topic one of these things?

Here's a list of a few video games banned in China:

  • Hearts of Iron (for "distorting history and damaging China's sovereignty and territorial integrity")
  • Battlefield 4 (for "smearing the image of China and endangering national security")
If Battlefield and Command & Conquer are getting banned. We're going to get banned. I think it's that simple.

A game set in the War in Vietnam? I imagine even mentioning it will be banned in China. Let alone buying it or playing it.

EDIT
The referenced Apocalypse Now game design document:

https://app.box.com/file/223063708617
 

Bester

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Your approach is so flawed...

A reasonable person would throw efforts at making your game available to reach the Chinese market. Back when blood was forbidden in Germany, game studios would paint it green instead of saying "we don't give a fuck about germany, how's that for a german version you fucks?"

"Who we do care about is Poland cause I got a polish friend and he says the polish market is huuuge". Mark, you have polish fans precisely because they're European and are 50 times more likely to known English well enough to formulate this "demand", that you simply take at face value. The Asian market is simply incapable of formulating this in English, but it's larger and more interested in western games by huge numbers. You're making the same mistake everyone is, just because SJW are loud doesn't mean they buy games. Just because Poles are loud, doesn't mean there's more of them even remotely.

Have a look at where Poland is compared to China:

3a2e4d3f6b3af39d085baf065f40079f.png


In ARK you can eat your own shit and it wasn't banned. In Far Cry 4 there's blood, and gore, and an "evil dictatorship" plot, and it wasn't banned. And guess what, those games sold 10- times better in China than in Poland. You mention Far Cry 4 in your list of games that inspire AN. Well Far Cry 4 had a Chinese translation.

"Kickstarter is dead", tell it to newcomers like Owlcat Games. It's not dead, it's ~2 times less powerful than before, but it's a good way to assert demand for your game. For your game, there was none, maybe because your pitch was awkward, I don't know. But everything is awkward about your project. Your choice of engine is awkward. "We picked CryEngine because the jungle looks better in it than in UE4". I was shocked for a day after I heard that, I couldn't believe someone so incompetent could be in charge.
Your marketing department is making an awkward sales prognosis. 1 mil copies. Why not 1.1 mil? Why not 0.9 mil? There was no calculus involved. They just took a number out of their ass completely. "Yep, well, I see Conan Exiles sold a mill. Looks like we can do it too then". What?!
Your game design is awkward. Everything about the indicated speed of character or the boat is wrong. Anyone who made a game knows when you implement realistic speed, your character will feel like he's overburdened with too much stuff in the inventory. In modern games, speed isn't realistic. You make a horse with realistic speed, it'll feel like a turtle. Then you give it a good car speed and there you go, feels like a real horse. It reads like something you'd write when you never actually made a game.
"You can walk the entire distance on foot for 10 hours and you'll be rewarded for it". Wow, amazing game design feature. The entire doc is filled with this amateur stuff.
When you call the boat, it'll reach you in 10 minutes. Holy shit 10 minutes... I mean I'm sure you'll adjust these numbers once you see how bad they are, but the sheer incompetence is seeping through the document, like I already said.

You come from the classic industry, and all your team. In the old days, you had N studios and you only had to compete with each other. Those times are over, you can't overlook the fact that you haven't adapted to new realities. The industry is dying because of people like you in charge and because of their incompetence. I'm glad that the industry is dying, it needs a revamp.

Lawrence Liberty is our executive producer. He produced DC: Universe Online, an MMO. He has worked on many MMOs. Our multiplayer plans are radically more simple. Our team leads have as much multiplayer experience as anyone on the planet (Arma3, Call of Duty, Battlefield, many MMOs, Gears of War, other unnamed titles). The idea that there is any scope issue or risk issue here is absurd.
So first he worked on a genre that was incapable of evolving for 10+ years and became synonymous with stagnation, and now he's working on your game. Logical conclusion to his career.
"The idea of risk is absurd" - yeah movies and games don't flop, it's a myth. Never happens.
 

Bester

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Lawrence was the producer in charge of Fallout: New Vegas.
I didn't like that game, Mark. Out of curiosity, was it Lawrence's fault that the game didn't bring in that additional bonus because of a poor metacritics rating?

Our approach is based on data rather than feelings.
Yeah, such solid data that your predicted sale numbers are rounded to a million.
 

Bester

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Hilariously, I now remember how FNV had this huge problem with programmers being incapable of implementing a revolver reloading mechanics and a reload interruption mechanic. Took them over a month to do it in the end. Great job on hiring the right people, Lawrence or whoever had this responsibility. #JustIndustryThings.
 

MLMarkland

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I didn't like that game, Mark. Out of curiosity, was it Lawrence's fault that the game didn't bring in that additional bonus because of a poor metacritics rating?

Fallout: New Vegas was rated 84 on metacritic missing it's bonus by 1 point.

[Someone] bribed a game reviewer to give it a ~50 to drag its rating below the 85 bonus threshold.

You'll never hear Obsidian say that because they can't.

But I can.

What games do you like?
 

Bester

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MGS5:TPP is the closest thing to what you're making. Otherwise my favs are Fallout 1-2, BG1-2, VTMB. I smiled a bit at the notion of having IE-style dialogues in AN. I think MGS5's approach would fit much better, and would make it much more manageable in terms of sheer size of a game. It looks like you're trying to do too much.
 

Sigourn

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Hilariously, I now remember how FNV had this huge problem with programmers being incapable of implementing a revolver reloading mechanics and a reload interruption mechanic. Took them over a month to do it in the end. Great job on hiring the right people, Lawrence or whoever had this responsibility. #JustIndustryThings.

Not even Bethesda's OWN programmers can do that shit.
 

MLMarkland

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MGS5:TP, Fallout 1-2, BG1-2, VTMB.

All great games. Fallout 1 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. are probably my top two all time favorite games.

It looks like you're trying to do too much.

For about a decade, I worked primarily as a producer who gets assigned to derailed projects to cut things and get them back on track.

Being an experienced hatchetman, I think we'll be AOK on the scope front.

Additionally, Lawrence produced FNV in 18 months with a $9,000,000 budget with much worse tech and tools.
 

Tigranes

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ITT Bester the Master Game Designer who knows everything there is to know

Not that Apocalypse Now inspires any more confidence in me than it did back in the Kickstarter, but uh, Monty, you're probably best off stepping away from the feeding zone.
 

MLMarkland

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ITT Bester the Master Game Designer who knows everything there is to know

Not that Apocalypse Now inspires any more confidence in me than it did back in the Kickstarter, but uh, Monty, you're probably best off stepping away from the feeding zone.

I'm not stuck in here with Bester.

Bester is stuck in here with me.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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As much as I do a appreciate a developer who can come here and fence with the trolls, this project still looks like a complete assdick waiting to happen.

10 months after cancelling the original Kickstarter they still don't even have enough pledges to meet the initial funding goal of 900k, but the guy waves his dick up and about like everything is going great and moving to their own website has been a stellar success.
 

MLMarkland

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As much as I do a appreciate a developer who can come here and fence with the trolls, this project still looks like a complete assdick waiting to happen.

10 months after cancelling the original Kickstarter they still don't even have enough pledges to meet the initial funding goal of 900k, but the guy waves his dick up and about like everything is going great and moving to their own website has been a stellar success.

We spent a year building the website. The website is the original, it was ready to launch in 2016.

We built the website because I've worked on five crowdfunded projects since 2013 and I knew Kickstarter was in decline since Steam Early Access came on the scene and FIG divided the game crowdfunding market.

We didn't go on FIG because we didn't want to deal with the complexities and quandaries of "crowd equity."

We changed the crowdfunding paradigm by NOT charging pledges until the entire budget is raised. Fixing the fundamental flaw of crowdfunding, because every crowdfunding project in history lied (or was ignorant) to you about it's real budget except for Apocalypse Now.

Launching the Kickstarter was secondary to the primary operation. I originally suggested using Kickstarter for Apocalypse Now in the first quarter of 2012 -- but this was before "Kickstarter went mainstream."

Is there something you don't like about the game design document, which parts look like complete assdick? Because we definitely want zero assdick in our design documents

https://app.box.com/file/223063708617
 

Infinitron

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Speaking of Fig, why didn't you use that instead? You've got the connections through Obsidian and Feargus and it seems ideal for something like this.
 

Mustawd

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10 months after cancelling the original Kickstarter they still don't even have enough pledges to meet the initial funding goal of 900k, but the guy waves his dick up and about like everything is going great and moving to their own website has been a stellar success.


Well, tbf seems like he was able to convince scam some people with money to fund this project. Not sure why he seems to think anyone wants this fucking thing. I've kind of held my tongue a bit on this as I don't want to be that super negative guy, but fuck this project, fuck the dev, fuck his team ( i feel sorry for them actually), fuck his investors, and oh yeah, did I say fuck this project?

I can expect faceless corporations to try and sell me spin-offs and remakes, but for someone to come here and do the same and act like any of us asked for this really pisses me off. MLMarkland , wtf is your problem? Don't you have any original ideas for a game? Are you really that creatively bankrupt that you need to lean on a classic movie and drag it through the mud to make a few fucking dollars you fucking piece of shit?

Do me a favor...go to a mirror, look into it, and try to convince yourself that you're doing something good. Cuz you're not. Some asshole who swindles old ladies through infomercials has more integrity in his nutsack than you, you worthless excuse for a fucking producer/developer.

Sorry to all, but this guy finally just pissed me the fuck off. I completely forgot this thing existed until I got an alert for it. Thanks for ruining my day. Asshole


Is there something you don't like about the game design document

The fact that this thing exists.
 

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