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Frayed Knights: The Skull of S'makh-Daon - parodic fantasy turn-based blobber

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
I can understand the attraction in figuring out stuff for yourself, but to actually appreciate lack of documentation? In an RPG? It's pretty fucking dumb. Don't read it if you don't want to. Playing with numbers is the fucking core or RPGs, though. If I want to know exactly how much better is this than that I should be able to.
 

Ranselknulf

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You seem super upset about this lol.

It would seem intuitive, well to me at least, that picking the two weapon fighting skill would have some sort of beneficial effect on either damage or to hit rate.

Testing out the effects doesn't take a long time.


You keep bringing up the fact that you aren't able to make perfect character development decisions with full knowledge before hand. I'm calling that min / maxing. I'm ok learning a game as I play it and making a few mistakes along the way.

You apparently are not ok with that style of gameplay.


I also didn't see you asking for information or help. All you were doing is bitching about the games documentation or lack thereof.
 

Gord

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Messages
7,049
It is now 'sperging and autistic to want to know the rules of a game you're playing.

Relax man, I wasn't all too happy about not knowing the details/formulas behind it either.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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It is now 'sperging and autistic to want to know the rules of a game you're playing.

The point is, the mechanics aren't even that superhard to figure out and I don't believe you can hit a brick wall in the game by taking 'wrong' things at level up (unless you do something completely stupid). I'd be pretty annoyed if I didn't get to read any documentation in something as brutal as Wizardry or JA2, but whining that Frayed Knights is unplayable because lol 'two weapon fighting feat doesn't say exactly what it does!!!!!!!!!!!!!' is like saying that Final Fight is a shit game because you aren't given the exact numbers showing how much damage does Haggar do in comparison to Guy.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
It can be something of an issue, yes. Esp. as the explanations to the rules are spread out over about 3 different places (manual, strategy guide, a bit ingame).
If you work through them you get a good general idea, but many details are still missing.
E.g. I would have liked to know the formulas for the different spells. When is a higher level spell better and when should I use a buffed low-level spell?
So if you are somewhat on the autistic side in wanting to know exactly what every skill and attribute does and the exact formula for how they all come together - tough luck.

I still think the game is worth playing though, esp. as many mechanics (e.g. drama stars, stamina and exhaustion) are interesting.
I think part of the fun for a game is discovering the game mechanics and the formulas on your own.

I don't want to study a manual, I just want to play a game and do trial and error.
Yeah, this is it. If I recall correctly, Jay said he deliberately hid a lot of specific mechanics because he didn't want people to metagame it too hard - he wanted players to experiment and figure things out for themselves rather than focus on making "ideal builds" that might break the game.

It's not necessarily an approach I agree with for a turn-based RPG, but I can see the merit in wanting players to experiment and have fun with the system rather than just min/max. The game is very, very well balanced throughout (except for the spell that lets you rest with no chance of enemy encounters) so this probably makes it more fun than it would be otherwise.

And yeah I agree, while lack of specific numbers is a little annoying, it's not exactly hard to figure out that X or Y attribute will make A or B change. And much of it is in the manual to begin with, that's really all the information you need to play comfortably and "as intended." But even so I am pretty sure Jay already said he wanted to add more transparency to the mechanics in the sequel due to these same complaints.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
Having vague or misleading descriptions in a crpg is dumb, period.

I didn't play FK much (strange since I'm a huge Wiz8 fanboy, perhaps I'll get down to it one day), but I played a lot with Etrian Odyssey games that suffer from an extreme case of vague skill descriptions and would never enjoy them as much if not for the info availible online.

Having precise info is always preferable. Even if you don't want it you can always ignore it. Though it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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It can be something of an issue, yes. Esp. as the explanations to the rules are spread out over about 3 different places (manual, strategy guide, a bit ingame).
If you work through them you get a good general idea, but many details are still missing.
E.g. I would have liked to know the formulas for the different spells. When is a higher level spell better and when should I use a buffed low-level spell?
So if you are somewhat on the autistic side in wanting to know exactly what every skill and attribute does and the exact formula for how they all come together - tough luck.

I still think the game is worth playing though, esp. as many mechanics (e.g. drama stars, stamina and exhaustion) are interesting.
I think part of the fun for a game is discovering the game mechanics and the formulas on your own.

I don't want to study a manual, I just want to play a game and do trial and error.
Yeah, this is it. If I recall correctly, Jay said he deliberately hid a lot of specific mechanics because he didn't want people to metagame it too hard - he wanted players to experiment and figure things out for themselves rather than focus on making "ideal builds" that might break the game.

See, I go for "ideal" builds extremely rarely. I like to build characters a bit wacky in most games. The funny thing is that documentation is even more crucial here, because you can end up with some completely useless builds if you don't know what's going on. But that's besides the point, which is this:

There is no excuse for lack of documentation. The excuse of "let players experiment" is a false statement because players aren't experimenting or trying to pick something good; they're just picking blindly and sometimes you get lucky and pick something good, sometimes not. There's no skill involved at all.

It's like cooking dinner without seeing the ingredients. How can that ever be preferable?
 

Deuce Traveler

2012 Newfag
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Rampant Games is giving away free games if you can solve their Frayed Knights quizzes. Last night the first quiz was answered (Rats of Nom, which will appear prominently in the second game) and someone got a free Torchlight steam key. This is today's contest, the prize being a copy of Dark Scavenger:

http://rampantgames.com/blog/

"Arianna has an old war-buddy who is staying at the inn at Ardin as well, who is seeking (among other things) a cure for a fellow-adventurer’s condition. This person later offers to assist in locating the titular artifact, but… well, that would be a spoiler. Anyway, the question is: what is this fellow adventurer’s name (first and last)?
Email your answer to feedback@rampantgames.com. If there are multiple correct answers, I’ll pick the winner at random.
In the meantime, have fun!"
 
Joined
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I think you're just a sperg, Grunker. It's nowhere as bad as you make it appear.

No explanation of any rules in the character system or any of the underlying mechanics that govern combat equals pretty shitty documentation in my mind. There wasn't even a superficial explanation of the To Hit formula back when I played it. Want to take two-weapon fighting? Well, go ahead and pick it blindly, 'cause you'll have no idea what the actual effects are. Same with every other trait.

What a spoiled brat you are. Old games barely explained any rules. You were practically shooting blind in Wasteland, Darklands or RoA and that didn't detract from them.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
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Third World
It can be something of an issue, yes. Esp. as the explanations to the rules are spread out over about 3 different places (manual, strategy guide, a bit ingame).
If you work through them you get a good general idea, but many details are still missing.
E.g. I would have liked to know the formulas for the different spells. When is a higher level spell better and when should I use a buffed low-level spell?
So if you are somewhat on the autistic side in wanting to know exactly what every skill and attribute does and the exact formula for how they all come together - tough luck.

I still think the game is worth playing though, esp. as many mechanics (e.g. drama stars, stamina and exhaustion) are interesting.

It is now 'sperging and autistic to want to know the rules of a game you're playing.
Considering how shitty the mechanics are in most CRPGs that don't draw directly from a pnp license you can understand why they hide it.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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I think you're just a sperg, Grunker. It's nowhere as bad as you make it appear.

No explanation of any rules in the character system or any of the underlying mechanics that govern combat equals pretty shitty documentation in my mind. There wasn't even a superficial explanation of the To Hit formula back when I played it. Want to take two-weapon fighting? Well, go ahead and pick it blindly, 'cause you'll have no idea what the actual effects are. Same with every other trait.

What a spoiled brat you are. Old games barely explained any rules. You were practically shooting blind in Wasteland, Darklands or RoA and that didn't detract from them.

Yes it did.
 

Metro

Arcane
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Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Amidst all this arguing you people are missing the biggest problem of all: no Steam version.

:rpgcodex:
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
I know Jay tried. Think they also put it up on Greenlight but I doubt it ever gets enough votes.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

Scholar
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
502
If the brief descriptions are good enough (most powerful fire/wind spell in the game. targets enemies and allies. Mp 80 / 6 bear asses and enough cucumbers to cast plus some armors I have can convert fire elent-tagged damage to HP equals ROFL stomp combo) you SHOULD be able to come up with something useful no matter the minor unknowns. If the dev wants to throw something at you like spells that make the just a few levels ago crucial repair and lockpick skills wastes of points or upgrades that aren't even worth the cost- is it even worth displaying the crappy math?

And if we must know what formulas are being used why do we content ourselves with computers calculatting the formulas? We could all just open a tab to some dice formula browser software and play some real C&C in "The Official RPG KKKODEX Forum RPG" TM. from now on and never have to make a big deal about this whinny crap again.... but we would have to play with NES controllers :troll:
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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When WadjetEye has a NEW game and try to put it up on STEAM, they will reject it (IIRC because of the low resolution). But if it becomes a part of a indie bundle it then will get added.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Frayed Knights isn't going to win any game awards or be in any top RPG lists, but it does to incorporate several unique ideas, such as the drama stars system

His Matt Chat videos years ago got me to check out his blog, and I was impressed with the thought he puts into design. I don't always agree with it, but it's nice to know he's thinking about different aspects of the game instead of winging it on his first game like so many first time indies.

And the Drama Stars system that punishes save scumming seems interesting. Anyone care to comment on how it works? I played another indie game inspired by M&M and the only way I could emjoy it was save scumming, as the resurrection system for dead characters was fucking broken to all hell. Is FK something that is meant to played iron man or close to it? Or can I play 30min-2hr sessions, save and walk away without it hurting me?

The game's graphics can be downright ugly at times

Eh. How bad can it really be? I think I'm ok. Can't be worse than Heroes of a Broken Land (slit wrists). So much graphic whoring in gaming these days. Even on the codex.

you have to be in the mood for moments of light-hearted levity that the game provides

Well, I'm looking for something goofy and light hearted after playing a few grimdark games back to back. Is the humor ok or bad? Dad jokes I'm fine with. Constant references to memes can sometimes be triggering though.

But still, the beginning and middle portions can be quite difficult, and if you screw up the your characters' leveling development then you might completely fail at the game

Mind elaborating without completely spoiling? Are there game ending things in leveling I should avoid? I'm all for hardcore experimentation on char gen, but only with great games. Not about to restart a first time indie game if my party is fugged halfway through.


I know this is a wall of text already but for anyone who beat it can you comment on the length? Just curious as Im not really looking for a super long game right now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mustawd

Guest
Infinitron , I know it's an old necro, but didn't want to start a whole new thread about it as I don't see a main one anyhow, and it doesn't seem to be particularly popular here (humorous tb blobber with shit grafix is niche of the niche of the niche). But feel free to split off to a new one if you want.

Also, obligatory: :necro:

EDIT: Looks like it got moved to a main thread. Fucking search function is always broken. Thanks newsjew.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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And the Drama Stars system that punishes save scumming seems interesting. Anyone care to comment on how it works?

It's brilliant.

Is FK something that is meant to played iron man or close to it?

More or less.

Is the humor ok or bad?

Ok, has a few funny bits (like a spell called "power word: defenestration"), mostly webcomic tier though.
 

V_K

Arcane
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Nov 3, 2013
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at a Nowhere near you
And the Drama Stars system that punishes save scumming seems interesting. Anyone care to comment on how it works? I played another indie game inspired by M&M and the only way I could emjoy it was save scumming, as the resurrection system for dead characters was fucking broken to all hell. Is FK something that is meant to played iron man or close to it? Or can I play 30min-2hr sessions, save and walk away without it hurting me?
You can. Basically, on the main menu you have the options to "Continue" (i.e. load your latest save) and to "Load game" (load any save). The former doesn't reset the Drama Stars counter, the latter does. As does reloading from inside the game.
Resurrection is one of the things you can spend Drama Stars on, without any punishment. So if you just suck it up and roll continue playing with a dead char, you'll eventually gain enough Drama Star points to resurrect him (unless you have a TPK first).
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Frayed Knights isn't going to win any game awards or be in any top RPG lists, but it does to incorporate several unique ideas, such as the drama stars system

His Matt Chat videos years ago got me to check out his blog, and I was impressed with the thought he puts into design. I don't always agree with it, but it's nice to know he's thinking about different aspects of the game instead of winging it on his first game like so many first time indies.

And the Drama Stars system that punishes save scumming seems interesting. Anyone care to comment on how it works? I played another indie game inspired by M&M and the only way I could emjoy it was save scumming, as the resurrection system for dead characters was fucking broken to all hell. Is FK something that is meant to played iron man or close to it? Or can I play 30min-2hr sessions, save and walk away without it hurting me?

The game's graphics can be downright ugly at times

Eh. How bad can it really be? I think I'm ok. Can't be worse than Heroes of a Broken Land (slit wrists). So much graphic whoring in gaming these days. Even on the codex.

you have to be in the mood for moments of light-hearted levity that the game provides

Well, I'm looking for something goofy and light hearted after playing a few grimdark games back to back. Is the humor ok or bad? Dad jokes I'm fine with. Constant references to memes can sometimes be triggering though.

But still, the beginning and middle portions can be quite difficult, and if you screw up the your characters' leveling development then you might completely fail at the game

Mind elaborating without completely spoiling? Are there game ending things in leveling I should avoid? I'm all for hardcore experimentation on char gen, but only with great games. Not about to restart a first time indie game if my party is fugged halfway through.


I know this is a wall of text already but for anyone who beat it can you comment on the length? Just curious as Im not really looking for a super long game right now.

The Drama Stars are very helpful in the game, so if you save scum you won't enjoy the advantages they bring during the boss fights, so it encourages you to avoid save scumming. You can still win, but without drama stars, victory is harder and you have to be luckier.

I'll elaborate on character development... find a role for your characters and focus your character builds on those roles (tank, arcane blaster, healer, etc). This isn't a game where you can spread out your skills and succeed. You start as a pack of scrubs, but if you can stay focused during your gradual improvements, those same scrubs become legitimate badasses by the end game and the last dungeons are easy affairs. By making your characters jack-of-all-trades, you dilute their talents and can make the ending harder on yourself than it needs to be. At the end, I had a good melee tanker, a rogue focused on speed and avoiding damage, a priest focused on healing, and an arcane blaster and did well.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's refreshing to just have a tactical RPG and not much big fluff outside of that humor. It does what it does fairly well and I think that is a win. Shit, [The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk] reminds me of another comedy RPG that was released years and years ago but it was a blobber. I forget the name, now...
I think you're thinking of Frayed Knights. I almost checked this out but one of the main characters has white guy dreadlocks and I knew I could never stop seeing it so I never tried the game.
 

Darth Canoli

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Perched on a tree
So, i've been gifted this so i'm playing it on and off alongside M&M III.

So far, i've completed :
  • The intro dungeon
  • The Village rat cave quest (it was quite tough, probably did it too early), they're more molerats i think.
  • The Wilderness tomb (probably too early too)
  • The Mine (this one was short and easy)
Exploring the Wilderness Tower basement now.

The intro dungeon is alright, the rat cave is bland.

The mine is really short but nice.
The tomb is quite good, short and tough, the last boss was really tough, didn't use my drama points, forgot about it actually and i was surprised nobody died, all four were on the brinks of death, i had used all the fatigue and health potions they each had in their inventories, i was lucky he missed his last two attacks.

The Good
  • Decent/Good character development with skill advancement, attributes, weapon proficiencies (3 level each) up to master, and feats you get 1 point to spend every level, 2 every other level.
  • Exploration is interesting, there is some secrets, event some treasure, the searching system is interesting, giving you some hints about how close you are (if close enough) to a buried treasure and some secrets, some can't get found through searching though, you got to click the right spot.
  • Decent/Good combat, interesting spells, so far, buffs and debuffs is what works best, combat skills have two levels.
  • Good detailed manual, there's also a free official strategy guide which i didn't read so far.
  • Interesting spells, like in Wizardry 8, damage spells are underpowered so magic mostly offers tactical options.
  • Consumable use is important, you get just enough freebies to go through the hard battles.

The Mediocre
  • Drama points, i'm not saying it's uninteresting, it's a good idea but this and the fatigue system is a waste of resources in my opinion.
  • Enemies attack animations, they're annoying, not too annoying but they could use a skip option or a x4 speed.
  • Humor, there's quite a lot of resources probably invested in this, the party dialogues and while is sometimes slightly funny, i don't think it was worth it, it's a hit or miss and i'm quite sure it scared off many potential players.
  • The village is too big for its own good, this or it's lacking a running option to go through it.

The Bad
  • No character creation
  • The map is disgusting, it's unreadable and it resets each time you leave an area, useless...
  • Limited attack skills
  • No shortcuts for skills/spells, it goes from 1 click + 1 shortcut for quickspells to 4 commands for other spells, it's way too long so you go for your 3 quickspells most of the time.

Conclusion
3D doesn't bring much to the table, i'm not sure if it's easier to do than a nice 2D game, if it is, it's alright, if it isn't, it's a shame.
Drama points system + humor/party dialogs + monsters animations are a waste of resources.
I'd have used it for more monsters variety, full party creation with eventually one or two more classes and/or shortcuts for spells or a skill bar.
It's a nice blobber, even if you don't like the humor, you could just skip it, there is a quest journal, after all.

My rating so far :4/5:
7.5/10
 
Last edited:

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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Drama points are a waste of resources.

Absolute and utter fake news. Drama stars are the best thing about this game and if there was any justice in the world they'd become an RPG standard.
 

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