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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
I sometimes feel that Lady Error has such a venomous attitude

You sound like a typical lefty. Accuses others of something and then continues to do the exact thing he was objecting too. Truly a mental case.

I like to think I have been nothing but cordial. I just noticed a distinct pattern of behavior on your part and decided to comment on it. I must admit I can't demonstrate some of this behavior myself since my account is not a year old yet and I can't rate posts, but I doubt I would rate five posts "Shit" in less than a minute as has been attributed to you in other threads. Sorry you feel I'm a dirty lefty. But I'm not.

I would argue that's more of a synopsis or some sort of blurb for the store page, but fair enough.

I didn't spend much time or effort writing it so it could be a lot more informative and in-depth while still remaining objective. If the person writing the review is aware of his/her bias then they can work around that and write something that is objective.

All you did was list what was in the game, though, basically. Once you express approval or disapproval with a game mechanic, you've automatically lost complete objectivity because something you like and think is high quality may be something someone else thinks is shit and low quality. That's all I'm saying. Once you introduce opinion into something, it becomes subjective because pure objectivity can only be demonstrated through immutable facts.
 

Valky

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,418
Location
Trapped in a bioform
Watching the Grimoire phenomenon affect the world is truly an interesting experience
If you are not playing the game, whatever experience you are having is probably not that interesting.
GOG version fucking when?
Buy steam version, it has no DRM.
I don't support the kikes at Valve who peddle DRM, even if some good people release without. I still would have to install their malware to download the game.
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
2,048
Once you introduce opinion into something, it becomes subjective because pure objectivity can only be demonstrated through immutable facts.

Well yeah, no shit. But you said all reviews are inherently subjective. I disagree with that.

All you did was list what was in the game, though, basically.

I basically listed what the game was about in my shitty little objective review, yes. I can write another one that lists how all the systems work too (economy, battle, movement, etc) but I'm lazy and it would accomplish nothing because you already get the point. If at any moment I said "I don't like this part of this system" then it would become subjective, but all I have to do is not do that to remain objective.

Take a fork for example. By your logic, since everyone is human and biased, no one could objectively review a fork. Which is absurd. A review is simply an overview of the product in question, aka: A three pronged device used for poking food for easy consumption.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
I like to think I have been nothing but cordial.

Since you seem to be serious, I can only conclude that you're a mental case or a hypocrite:

Lady Error can literally write her very own review that literally fellates Grimoire
I sometimes feel that Lady Error has such a venomous attitude when it comes to her overtly zealous support of Grimoire and Cleve that she might have Cleve's sleeping wife tied up in her basement somewhere like in fucking Misery and Cleve only released Grimoire after 20 years of obsessing over every pico issue as a way to negotiate for his wife's release. But what he doesn't realize is that Lady Error has no intention of releasing his wife until she learns the secrets of skinwalking and one day Cleve will get his wife back but another woman will be inside her.

Additionally, your own obsession with me seems to be exactly the kind of thing you're projecting on me in this little fantasy of yours.
 

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
Once you introduce opinion into something, it becomes subjective because pure objectivity can only be demonstrated through immutable facts.

Well yeah, no shit. But you said all reviews are inherently subjective. I disagree with that.

All you did was list what was in the game, though, basically.

I basically listed what the game was about in my shitty little objective review, yes. I can write another one that lists how all the systems work too (economy, battle, movement, etc) but I'm lazy and it would accomplish nothing because you already get the point. If at any moment I said "I don't like this part of this system" then it would become subjective, but all I have to do is not do that to remain objective.

Take a fork for example. By your logic, since everyone is human and biased, no one could objectively review a fork. Which is absurd. A review is simply an overview of the product in question, aka: A three pronged device used for poking food for easy consumption.

"I like this fork better, the smaller prongs fit in my mouth better." "I prefer the metal handle for this fork, it is much better than the plastic handle on those other forks." -What a review kinda is.

"This is a fork" - What you did.

EDIT: Zero posts acknowledging Lady Error in my post history before this conversation = obsession. Regarding the fellating comment, I only used you as an example because you are one of the most biased towards Grimoire, much like I used agentorange as a counterpoint because he's one of the more vocal detractors of Grimoire. Nothing personal.

Though...that's right, I did criticize you over your use of the term speedrun in the other thread, so I did lie about the zero posts. My mistake, but still hardly an obsession.
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
2,048
"I like this fork better, the smaller prongs fit in my mouth better." "I prefer the metal handle for this fork, it is much better than the plastic handle on those other forks." -What a review kinda is.

You're comparing two different things now. And this can still be an objective form of review if the subjective opinions of the reviewer are explained via objective reasoning skills. For example, does the reviewer have a small mouth? Do they acknowledge this in the review? Do they list the benefits of the plastic (cheaper) over the metal (more expensive) handle? Etc. Subjectivity because objectivity is "impossible" is lazy.
 

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
"I like this fork better, the smaller prongs fit in my mouth better." "I prefer the metal handle for this fork, it is much better than the plastic handle on those other forks." -What a review kinda is.

You're comparing two different things now. And this can still be an objective form of review if the subjective opinions of the reviewer are explained via objective reasoning skills. For example, does the reviewer have a small mouth? Do they acknowledge this in the review? Do they list the benefits of the plastic (cheaper) over the metal (more expensive) handle? Etc. Subjectivity because objectivity is "impossible" is lazy.

Christ dude. I don't know where you lost track of what I was saying, but you don't see how introducing the subjective opinions of the reviewer (Which, might I add, is the point of a review, to recommend or not recommend a product based on the opinion of the reviewer) tarnishes the objectivity of the review? Yes, the reviewer is supposed to make an attempt at objectivity. No, they can not create a perfectly objective review without turning it into a description of the product, like you have previously displayed. If you could create a definitive review, that could not be refuted by another without them making up some bullshit that flies in the face of established knowledge, then why would anyone ever create multiple reviews for anything? You've gotten so caught up in the semantics that you've completely missed what I was trying to say. But yes, please, let's drop this.
 

ben_reck

Educated
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
84
Thanks for the timely review. The designer sounds like he'd be a great dm, albeit one with a few personality quirks. But as a one-man designer of a crpg? He's pretty much got the one-man thing down.

The "too brilliant for you to perceive" defense. Sheesh. A brilliant man makes a game for players nearly or just as luminous as himself? I don't think that's a desired legacy.

I do think the Etrian games have a fair bit of atmosphere, especially the town hub. But that's a side topic.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
All this talk of "your hard counters versus their hard counters, first one to fire theirs off wins" reminds me a bit of hallowed Baldur's Gate 2 with or without Sword Coast Strategems. Two words: time stop.

Another two words: vorpal blade. I could go on, but I don't feel like it.

Thought a bit more about Star Trail particularly this review right ch'heah http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/arkania/arkania3.htm

So the detective work begins. In place of the simple multiple-choice dialogues from Blade of Destiny, possible informants are now questioned via keywords. And a possible informant is just about everyone; shop owners, priests, healers - even some of the commoners can be harassed in their houses. And quite a lot of them have to be interrogated, as Star Trail is the heaviest offender for obfuscated design out of the trilogy. The only valuable piece of information for the search after Star Trail is the fact that it is missing. Or maybe even worse is the city where a special way to get out is needed, but the player is given no hint whatsoever where to look for it. Sometimes logical thinking helps - it makes sense to ask for a divine throwing axe at places where people know a lot about weapons, for example - but at other times there's no other way as to systematically comb through all the houses in a given town. The fact that most correspondents end the dialogue after two or three questions, so that their house needs to be entered again, doesn't help either. This makes for a lot of tough, realistic investigative work, but those used to modern games holding their hands on every step should brace themselves for for frustration.
...
Less reliance on combat doesn't mean that the quest is going to be a walk in the park, though. On the contrary, Star Trail features more instant deaths and possible dead ends than any other game in the series, and not even towns are an exception here, so it is pretty much mandatory to keep a number of backup saves, in case something goes wrong and isn't noticed until much later.
...
Bugs are once again a problem, just as much as they were in Blade of Destiny. Some old bugs were fixed, but others weren't, and there's a share of new ones as well. Most are just annoying, like the aforementioned kids' faces bug, but there's also a few almost game breaking ones as well. The English version got "updated" again with unique bugs that weren't present in the original German game, the worst of which renders the game almost non-completable when not knowing it, but can be easily fixed/avoided with the right hints.

Star Trail is often considered the best game in the series, and was crowned RPG of the year 1994 all over the place, by magazines and players alike. However, nowadays it can only be seen as somewhat of an acquired taste, and interested players have to put up with a lot of hardships before they can truly appreciate the game for its merits. For fans of classical hardcore RPGs, it can prove a true revelation, though, especially for those that prefer simulation-heavy experiences.

Opaque investigation? Instant deaths? Game breaking bugs that were never solved? Unfinished, Unbalanced, Early Access RPG To think the morons of the past called that the best RPG of 1994.

My question is, is M&MIII pure decline because of the above? Has this hipster indie poser of JVH been pretending all these years? Is it the secret prequel to Undertale?

mondblut hasn't popped in this thread so allow me to channel him by pointing out that Might and Magic was always a baby tricycle compared to Wizardry's motorcycle.

Possibly this one didn't have to go through the extra step of having Infinitron crying that it's not fair to Obsidian.

Y'know I can't deny this. Look back at the state of Pillars of Eternity 1.x

  • No stash sorting by item type, enchant score, and sell value.
  • Borked XP awards (the opposite problem Grimiore had; people were reaching the level cap far too soon)
  • No companion AI so you had to micromanage everyone at all times
  • No individual stealth so you either had to go as a group or not at all.
  • No immunities. Spam slicken2win
  • A mess of an action bar, making handling per encounter and per rest abilities a pain.
  • A whole lot of trash combat in act 3
  • Moreover, act 3 further trivialized by early per-rest spells becoming per-encounter. Spam slicken2win just got easier.
If Grimoire is an unfinished, unbalanced, Early Access RPG then Pillars of Eternity certainly qualifies as well. But with Obsidian it's "Oh, poor Obsidian, give 'em a break Roxor, they're only a group of 30-odd sapes, let's wait for the Grunker/VD review." But if a single neanderthal isn't able to leave them all in the dust? Better get out the big guns, no holding back. And of course the nerve of that 'thal to charge $40 for his early access-in-full-game clothing when poor Obsidian was merely charging $45 for theirs.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,756
"Your party will be saved here in a special format that can be imported into the next game."

EZel7Jg.png


Grimoire 2: Wings of the Exemplary Heralds will be the best CRPG of 2037!
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
Review just reinforced my previously held beliefs. Wait for the game to get all bugs fixed and the offensive broken things like bards to be fixed and then get the GOG version. Also I'm not that upset about combat not being the greatest thing here because dungeon crawling and itemization is the real reason I play blobbers.

FelipePepe, manboons are not learning animals. Where are all your persist spells for this area? You should have 9 different orbs floating in the viewport and you should keep them refreshed, knowing this is a very dangerous area.

As for these troglodytes, are you aware there about three different ways to completely avoid combat with the heavier encounters here altogether?

Yes, if you charge around this area on Progress Quest punching buttons, these trogs will make hamburger out of you quickly. Those impaler spears are designed to kill newbs and Brazilians very quickly down here.

I don't think after 40 hours you should know this little about what you are doing. Grimoire is not an anime grinder. It takes brainpower to play. The insta-kill is a classic part of Wizardry and many other RPGs which you claim to be familiar with ... but I don't think you are. You are like a popamole in sheep's clothing, creeping about in the game going guize I'm totally hardcore wiz player ... but your amazement that your candy ass is getting waxed down here doesn't make any sense. This is a very dangerous area. You cannot popamole through it.

Try thinking a bit about all the options available in the game other than just charging around and crying mascara tears because your like totally maxed out giant got killed by a spear. Thrown and everything. FelipePepe, Grimoire is not for amateurs. If anything, what I meant by unbalanced was simple - there are exploits in the game that even enable people like you to win it. You're right. I need to fix those immediately because amateurs and millennial crybabies should not last ten seconds in the Saltwyrm Caves. The trogs are guarding one of the tablets down here and they have standing orders to kill Brazilians twice. The only way you should be going through this area is with persistent spells floating around like Armorplate, Magic Screen and Missile Screen ... ready to be jumped at any moment. Did you discover how to make the trog army stand aside and let you pass?

I came here hoping to see a post like this.

@LoG2 debate - Fuck you I did buy LoG2 on release. One of my most hyped games of 2014 and it delivered on everything and improved over the first game in almost every aspect. Truly an example of what a sequel should strive to be.

I agree re: LoG2, it was a fucking awesome game. I'm am dumbfounded as to why it didn't do better. Marketing? Did they spend so much they couldn't hope to recoup it? I really don't get it.
 

Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
Infinitron contributed greatly by posting the relevant updates and interviews about cRPGs in a timely manner, and keeping us informed. This includes not only known studios, but indies and new kickstarters. Codexers like to bash Infinitron, because he always tries to protect Obsidian and InXile from negative criticisms, but without him the news page would be abandoned. Shill or not shill, he adds a lot and is very efficient.

You could get an AI to do the same thing.
 

Lord Andre

Arcane
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,716
Location
Gypsystan
All this talk of "your hard counters versus their hard counters, first one to fire theirs off wins" reminds me a bit of hallowed Baldur's Gate 2 with or without Sword Coast Strategems. Two words: time stop.

Sheeeit... that stuff was the bomb. I used to have the robe of vecna on my multi-classed fighter mage then cast time stop then improved alacrity then bring the holy wrath of god (which I was) on the pathetic infidels that stood in my way. I remember the game would start stuttering because the sheer amount of spell effects on the screen when time stop ended would make the framerate bomb.

:bounce:
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,885
Location
Water Play Catarinense
Most of the people who bought LoG1 wanted to try those old-school rpg without having to play them. After playing LoG1, they learned they don't like this kind of game, thus, LoG2 sold less.
 

Valky

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,418
Location
Trapped in a bioform
I agree re: LoG2, it was a fucking awesome game. I'm am dumbfounded as to why it didn't do better. Marketing? Did they spend so much they couldn't hope to recoup it? I really don't get it.

The first game was relatively accessible for a blobber and a blobber itself a novelty to casuals new people. So the curiosity got them to buy into it. Whether they quickly realized that style of game wasn't for them or were hoping for something even more accessible with the sequel, a large part of the non-core playerbase didn't buy into LoG2, because instead of appealing more to the accessibility crowd, it doubled down on what it was trying to be. Great for me, bad for the average steam user. That's just my theory.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Honest questions:
Is the problem insta kill attacks or that there are too many enemies at end game that have them?
Is the problem the insta kill attacks or that the game doesn't clue you about them coming? I mean, one thing is some random monster that looks like any other monster all of sudden have insta kill attacks and another is you facing dangerous demons from another dimension where it would make sense to worry about that sort of attack?
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
2,048
Honest questions:
Is the problem insta kill attacks or that there are too many enemies at end game that have them?
Is the problem the insta kill attacks or that the game doesn't clue you about them coming? I mean, one thing is some random monster that looks like any other monster all of sudden have insta kill attacks and another is you facing dangerous demons from another dimension where it would make sense to worry about that sort of attack?

There's one Dragonfly you start running into at The Eyrie that looks exactly the same as the other fly type mobs that suddenly has an instant kill with no real warning, and it's fairly quick too. So you're dead if the attack doesn't whiff.
 

Lord Andre

Arcane
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,716
Location
Gypsystan
Honest questions:
Is the problem insta kill attacks or that there are too many enemies at end game that have them?
Is the problem the insta kill attacks or that the game doesn't clue you about them coming? I mean, one thing is some random monster that looks like any other monster all of sudden have insta kill attacks and another is you facing dangerous demons from another dimension where it would make sense to worry about that sort of attack?

There's one Dragonfly you start running into at The Eyrie that looks exactly the same as the other fly type mobs that suddenly has an instant kill with no real warning, and it's fairly quick too. So you're dead if the attack doesn't whiff.

Funny thing is I killed more than a couple of them on various encounters before one actually hit me. First time it happened I thought my leet saurian zerker hit himself in the head with his own dick and proc'ed lethal blow.
 

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