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Grimoire Thread

Biggus

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
208
Wow, Fate: Gates of Dawn. There's a game you don't hear about everyday. And too bad, outside of the Wizardry games and a few other more known titles, it's on a short list of rpg's I actually like. Also it's insane the whole thing fit on two Amiga floppies, it's a mammoth game.

Yeah, mammoth doesn't begin to describe it. When I see modern games' maps rated as being "huge" I just smile and nod and think of the graph paper and highlighters I went through mapping Fate! I really have to dig out that full scale map I started on. From memory, the disks were n-dos and used long tracks and some sort of funky custom compression to store waaaaaaaaaay more than 880k disks normally did. The HD image referred to above is 3.58 MB, even the zip with today's compression is almost 2 meg, so yeah, it was insane :) The mechanic of needing co-operating parties to solve some of the puzzles was just so cool. In the end of course, the balance was well broken, I guess that is inevitable, but at the start, (Gralls Wizards aside) it was perfect, and that starting town alone is as big or bigger, than many entire games are now.

It is the best blobber I have ever played by a million miles. Man I had some fun, and the end... it was such an amazing feeling. :)
 

Vrab

Learned
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
99
Fall of the dungeon guardians

It's on sale on steam just now. For someone who never played a blobber apart from a couple of hours of some old m&m demo that I didn't manage to like 10 000 years ago, is it a good entry point?
Yeah its pretty good and quite accessible- Its real time (similar to grimrock) but the cool thing about this game is that there are setti9ngs to tweak the 'real time' speed down to the point it almost plays like a turn based game- Plus no having to dance around to avoid enemies (which is nice) its dice based not twitch

The dungeon is huge, pretty cool design and characters are diverse enough tio have some fun playing with.

If you can get it on sale its a must buy imho.

I'll give it a shot, thanks for the info. It's 5 euros so even a Slav such as myself can pay that price for a test.

Fall of the Dungeon Guardians is $5.00 on Steam right now, down from 20.00....Thats a good deal imo
No, the only good deal for playing a dungeon crawler that copied World of Warcrap's combat system/mechanics and bringing RTWP to make it 'manageable' is for the dev to pay us. Even free doesn't cut it, our time is too valuable to be wasted on this kind of nonsense.

Well I don't mind rtwp. And I could even admit of having played Rift which is essentially a wow clone for a few years, but I guess it's better if I don't do that.
 

Jugashvili

管官的官
Patron
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
2,612
Location
Georgia, Asia
Codex 2013
Oqc4Wsr.jpg


:salute:
Now open up Steam and show us those 600 hours.

Tbqh I played most of the game in a backup version I had to protect my saves, so I've only got 12 hours or so logged on Steam :negative:

I didn't keep track of the number of hours it took me to complete it but it really wasn't all that long, perhaps 60 or so hours? I completely ignored castle Moravia and the place you find to the SE of the skull wilderness, and I probably missed a few more areas. I enjoyed the game as a whole but I do feel that the Superdemo area is the best by far from a narrative point of view.
 

Biggus

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
208
In the end of course, the balance was well broken
Whoa whoa. If the guy who made Fate was still alive you would have got a Cleve hammer in German.

I just hit them with my Jaggalack (I think that's what it was called). There was some other uber weapon I found waaaaaaay over in the south-east corner. I didn't mind digging, digging, digging away. I just knew that something so far away had to have a reason for being. Anyway, yeah, just as well eh? :) I'd probably have to hand over my copy of Fate, and all saved games no doubt, as well as suffering a tongue lashing.

Imagine what the crackerjack's rants would sound like in German! That would be truly impressive!

This manual is going to be a very interesting document, especially when we all have access to builds that precede it. A case of chicken and egg I think.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,578
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
uIxA27K.png


It's a cookbook! :salute:

Every RPG should have a To Serve Man reference, whether to the Simpsons Halloween sketch, to the Twilight Zone episode, or to the Damon Knight story.

I wanted there to be several instances in Grimoire where people were sucked completely out of the game universe into somewhere else - because this was a common component of D&D boardgames in the 80's when I played them. That's why I added Astral Plain and several others, just so the players would have the feeling they had left the realm altogether for short periods.
 

mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.
The total lack of self-awareness of someone who claims to be open-minded, but when stuff like Undertale, Labyrinth of Touhou or Generation Xth appears they refuse to play because it's "hipster crap" or "weaboo shit".

Bravo.

Getting mondblut's point about the Youtube-Whore Generation not understanding Old Greatness of RPGs and Grimoire has great ideas and clearly Cleve IS an excellent writer and game designer regards places and new mechanisms, groundbreaking ideas..

As for making those ideas work..: Cleve then why was writing on Indiegogo on doing the Thaumaturge Merge Lists and Metallurgy crap, when its not working and there are a CARTLOAD OF PROBLEMS with the game, people reported in the critical and non-critical bugs section that need fixing, but not even the manual is out, which now appears the least of the problems.

Cleve simply seems not skilled and smart enough to professionally fix things, as exceptional people do.

Cleve appears to be too old now with his mental acuity/sharpness of mind gone, Cleve appears now to fight with his hazy thinking due to onset of elderly age with its own problems, weakened with significantly reduced fighting ability ---> running around a Boss Problem and running around and unable to deal or even damage the Boss Problem.. His hopeless ongoing battle called by Young Streamites "bug fixing" is like an RPG, where Cleve has no chance to WIN.

He just appears to ram his head against a heavy door again and again without a real chance
to break through and fix his game.


**** Advanced Users Only:

Here comes the most shocking realization:

Couple days ago he responded to my "bring him to court to stop this madness"-post with a LIBEL / Lawyers PM and I realized not the law-threat farce, but

the powerlessness of a Man. What one man can do, of his own power, when that man is getting old and the youthful energy is gone. But the Dream is there to be realized and frankly, anyone above 40 might start to realize this slowly until reaching 50 plus that

maybe

maybe

the Life's Dream... the Magnum Opus is unrealizable?

Cannot be done? After all this. After all we have seen. One man's life has its limits. And those limits get more numerous and more nagging as the years go by.


So at that point the only thing, this shocking realization of one man's powerlessness in this world hit me, as if gallons of cold water was poured over my head:


i felt compassion for Cleve.

Nothing else, but painful, hurting compassion.

And it stopped me in my tracks. Because understanding another has the greatest power in life.

Everybody has vices, narcissism, annoying way of dealing with customers, rigid world views, many faults that are easily seen by others and when the bar is set too high for only one man:
probably evident hopelessness. (Besides the exciting scandal and drama we all love so much, this forum being proof.)

But the realization struck and it didn't change at all. Since being in a remotely similar situation

All I could feel towards Cleve was

c o m p a s s i o n

a strong feeling of sympathy and sadness for the suffering or bad luck of others and a wish to help them.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,246
Location
Ingrija
Not sure if my Aeorb Sage and Vamphyr Necro are getting enough physical skill points (1 per level up) - don't even have Swimming on 10 yet.
It's perfectly normal for Wizardry. Also 5 swimming is suffice to swim one grid, return to ground, rest and repeat. Similar to Wiz7, if you don't have swimming close to 40 after leaving first dungeon, you are doing something wrong.

Even 1 suffices if vitality is high enough (>100, I think). Non-squishy types are ready to start their swimming lessons as early as level 2. A sage would need about 5 points or a few levels worth of vitality boosts, true.
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
You will lose 10% of vitality, no matter HOW MUCH YOU HAVE.

I've already tested and stated this OVER AND OVER.

VITALITY IS BROKEN.

Zep--
 

Biggus

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
208
You will lose 10% of vitality, no matter HOW MUCH YOU HAVE.

I've already tested and stated this OVER AND OVER.

VITALITY IS BROKEN.

Zep--

Rather than wait for the manual that (in theory) will tell us what each stat does, possibly you can save us the pain of waiting till Friday, and tell us which ones do nothing or are broken (apart from the ones we already know about) :P
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
I wrote the DECLINE tool, why don't you do it?

I was sick of the game b4 I finshed the SuperDemo.

Zep--
 

Biggus

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
208
I wrote the DECLINE tool, why don't you do it?

I was sick of the game b4 I finshed the SuperDemo.

Zep--

Fair enough, I just thought you might have already known specifics. Maybe the manual could come out sooner if Cleve grabs DECLINE :P

Thanks for it by the way.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
It's amusing how so many people that probably have just played for a handful of hours here are shunning Felipe's opinions about the game.

I never disputed his individuals criticisms, merely his claim that Grimoire is exceptionally broken and unfinished compared to its contemporaries. For example, The Legacy: Realm of Terror is a favorite with real time blobber fpp aficionados here. But you don't see much affection for it from Alec Meer's retro review at RPS

So there I am, punching a zombie in the face by clicking on these two little buttons, dealing out a minute amount of damage per successful thump. The zombie only hits back once every ten seconds or so, but whenever he does he demolishes a good quarter of my health bar. Bloody zombies. Bloody Legacy. Now I remember why I never finished this game – it’s ridiculously hard.
...
Every now and then, I lose most of my health bar. Or all of it, which means I have to remember to save often. Old games have such little pity for their frail players. In one room, I plunge suddenly through the floor to a cellar area below. I lose half my health bar. Against one wall of the cellar, there’s a weird blue glow. I should know better really, given this game’s sadistic tendencies, but I stumble into it. Zap! And I’m in another dimension, just like that. It’s hard not to admire Legacy’s excess. It’s crude and confused, but it’s got a portal to another dimension in the basement. More games should have portals to other dimensions in the basement. Trouble is, my weak-minded soldier freaks out about his reckless hopping through time and space, his mental anguish somehow removing another quarter of his severely diminished health. Well, this is no fun.

Forced fear’s an odd mechanism to have in a game. True, it’s something to consider other than the usual health and energy and ammo, and is a potentially ingenious way of ensuring the player doesn’t feel like some detached super-human meathead. At the same time, if what’s scaring the character isn’t remotely unnerving the player, it’s just an annoyance. A beastie jumping out of the darkness I could understand, but I – and thus my character – chose to walk through that blue hole in the wall. So this kind of punishment just feels unfair, like I’m being penalised for having fun. Well, one thing I’m not doing is having fun. Maybe I’m spoilt by modern standards and associated snobbishess, but certainly this revisit to a game from my childhood has turned entirely sour by now.

Wandering through the blue ether, I’m suddenly approached by a two-mouthed Lovecraftian demon thingy. If only I could talk to the monster. But I can’t. I can only punch and punch and punch and punch and punch. It does nothing as I do so, least of all die. Around thirty punches in, it decides to finally take a bite out of me. Just the one. And that’s it. All over. I don’t bother to reload a save game this time, and with a sigh I exit. I had hoped I’d unearth an overlooked classic, but all I found was a peculiarly awkward evolutionary step between text adventures and cRPGs. You shouldn’t always go back.

^ this is a preview of Felipe's Grimoire review. RPS Codex.
Thing is, from what I know, Legacy was received about the same when it was released. But it comes from a misunderstanding that's a result of people applying heroic fantasy tropes to a horror game. The devs even released a statement, something to the effect of "it's not a fighting game, it's a game of puzzle-solving". I.e. you're not supposed to punch the zombies, much less eldritch horrors, you're supposed to escape with your life - because that's how the horror genre works. Even the manual says that you must engage in combat only when left with no other choice (and to further reinforce it, the game is arguably the only grid-based RPG that lets you sneak past an enemy if you pass a certain skillcheck).
My point is, within its horror logic, Legacy is fairly well balanced. I don't know if you can say that about Grimoire, haven't played it, but I'm assuming that unlike Meer's felipepepe's review doesn't come from a misunderstanding of genre tropes.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Thing is, from what I know, Legacy was received about the same when it was released. But it comes from a misunderstanding that's a result of people applying heroic fantasy tropes to a horror game. The devs even released a statement, something to the effect of "it's not a fighting game, it's a game of puzzle-solving". I.e. you're not supposed to punch the zombies, much less eldritch horrors, you're supposed to escape with your life - because that's how the horror genre works. Even the manual says that you must engage in combat only when left with no other choice (and to further reinforce it, the game is arguably the only grid-based RPG that lets you sneak past an enemy if you pass a certain skillcheck).
My point is, within its horror logic, Legacy is fairly well balanced. I don't know if you can say that about Grimoire, haven't played it, but I'm assuming that unlike Meer's felipepepe's review doesn't come from a misunderstanding of genre tropes.
If Roguey was half a good stalker as he think he is, he'd knew I wrote a review for The Legacy months ago:

woxfIsD.png
And yes, I agree with you on the whole horror logic thing - monsters like that floating thing on the first level were deadly and terrifying, precisely because you're not supposed to fight it.

But then you start to reach areas like the Sanitarium, where you're already better equipped and there's a bunch of lovecraftian horrors just hovering in front on doors, serving as meat gates... I think a lot of the atmosphere is gone by then.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
where you're already better equipped
Well, given that "better equipped" means, for the most part, being stocked on rare occult items (and/or having figured out the very specific weaknesses the horrors have), I'd say it's still within the horror logic, even though it does have a bit of an atmosphere-breaking effect.
 

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