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Grimoire Thread

Bumvelcrow

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Cleve's the Shkreli of RPG developers, it's going to be difficult finding someone with a neutral view.

Yeah, I'd prefer if passions had calmed before there was the first of the official reviews in the hopes we could just treat it like a game. Best we can hope for is an editor with a sense of humour.
 

felipepepe

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Unfortunately rather churlish. Changing the review after 80 hours is reviewing the developer not the game. It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.
Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND abut the developer that's lying to his clients.
 

Roguey

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"Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND about the developer that's lying to his clients." applies to every RPG that's been released in the past 20 years and perhaps beyond.
 

Viata

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felipepepe I hope you make a review based on the game itself(the one you said it would be top 10 if the combat was balanced) and let what you think about Cleve(and you being banned on steam forum) outside it(or make a part for it that in no way should change your opinion for the game).

I still think the game should be EA, but I guess saying that will make people go witch hunt on me(I wonder what would happen if I said I could do 5 endings in a single run, 10 minutes walking from each ending place? That would cut those 600 hours quite fast. :lol:). So I'll just ignore it.

But I also think it's the best game released this decade and how much we need a Celerity-autistic level modder to make the best combat for this game. That is why I still recommend this game for anyone that asks. I don't give a shit how retarded Cleve is on steam or here, I'm judging the game for what it is and not for what Cleve is promising on steam page, that is for v2 and that is not even 100% certain, it's quite obvious we can't believe whatever Cleve says. I'd not buy this game if Cleve's opinion on anything was important for me. I bought it because the superdemo was great. I played until the end the released version(ok, the update of the released version, you can't finish on the released version*) because I was having fun. Sure, combat was boring after some point(even if I don't exploit, it would still be boring, lack of balance made it boring**), but I still had fun. It's the wiz 7 clone I always wanted. Wiz 7 is still superior for me, no matter how perfect this game get. But that is because I think Wizardry is the best rpg series out there, so it's mostly my fanboy feelings talking here.:positive:


After said all that gibberish, I believe you, felipepepe, should change your steam review to recommended again. The only reason to complain about a developer in a review is if he is not fixing the game while giving the finger to its consumers(or just not fixing it, Cleve is only giving the finger for some of his consumers, but in no way you can say he is not fixing his game). If you are unable to remove your feelings to the developer while judging his game, I really think you shouldn't review this game. We already have generic gamer journalist for that.

*Guess it's another of Cleve's lies. :lol:
**I can't comment on recent version. Cleve is fixing the combat, albeit rather slowly.
 

Roguey

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"Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND about the developer that's lying to his clients." applies to every RPG that's been released in the past 20 years and perhaps beyond.

But did the development progress of those RPGs take 20 years of time?

Cleve spent most of those 20 years being a contracted coder. His day job, which he seems to enjoy, is the reason why he can afford to act the way he does. Even cantankerous VD had to make certain concessions for his niche game, because he really wanted to quit the job he hated and move into game development full time. Cleve can take or leave it. He don't need ya, and if you're too much of a dummy, he don't want ya.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.
Cleve's the Shkreli of RPG developers, it's going to be difficult finding someone with a neutral view.

In the meantime, perhaps a True BeClever can finish Grimoire and bang out a review before Felipe finishes his, or at the very least provide one shortly after.

True becleavers aren't likely to set difficulty to zero and cheese to finish ASAP in order to rush to judgement.

More likely they have prejudged that the experience will be glorious and will instead savour it, restarting to try different builds, different paths, etc.
 

Lord Andre

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"Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND about the developer that's lying to his clients." applies to every RPG that's been released in the past 20 years and perhaps beyond.

But did the development progress of those RPGs take 20 years of time?

Cleve spent most of those 20 years being a contracted coder. His day job, which he seems to enjoy, is the reason why he can afford to act the way he does. Even cantankerous VD had to make certain concessions for his niche game, because he really wanted to quit the job he hated and move into game development full time. Cleve can take or leave it. He don't need ya, and if you're too much of a dummy, he don't want ya.

Agree. Cleve might not be rich but he's not in financial straits doing programming and he's 54, his kids are grown up, the amount of fucks he gives right now are probably somewhere south of zero...
 

Bumvelcrow

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Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND abut the developer that's lying to his clients.

Sorry, felipepepe, but I can't take that seriously given the well publicised spat between you and Cleve. If I want to buy the game I want to know about the game - I don't care about any objectionable behaviour he might have been involved in (other than for lols). I do sympathise with your position and Cleve owes you an apology, or at least a shake of hands and a manly hug, but I really think you need to distance yourself from any official review because it can't possibly be dispassionate under the circumstances. People may buy or not buy the game based upon what you write.
 

Roguey

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I wonder what would happen if I said I could do 5 endings in a single run, 10 minutes walking from each ending place?

Yeah, a badgamer completed it and posted screens from all the endings. Their assessment:

it is completely stable except for some items crashing the game if you super id then. the bigger issues are late game being half-finished with some weapons outright not working.

in kublai axis, half of the doors literally don't work

class changing is completely worthless unless you savescummed to be able to get the elite classes also, the xp requirements for level 10 are ridiculous

fucking 9000 xp for finishing the main objective of the game? less than half of what a stupid miniboss i had to fight three times gave? fuck you cleve

So like many RPGs, the endgame fizzles out into disappointment. Like a great deal of 90s shareware, the superdemo turns out to be the most polished, enjoyable part. :smug:
 

Latro

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"Game is being sold as finished. It isn't. That's 100% about the game AND about the developer that's lying to his clients." applies to every RPG that's been released in the past 20 years and perhaps beyond.

But did the development progress of those RPGs take 20 years of time?
It could take 100 years, how would that make a difference?

The game is 80-100 hours long in a single play-through. More gameplay tweaks + content is in the pipe. It's not an early access game, it's a full damn game with more support coming out. If the game is 80 hours long, and has no road-blocks that prevent players from completing the game, it is a FULL GAME. Full campaign. I'm not sure what the standards for "EARLY ACCESS" is, but Grimoire does not meet it. Feelapeepee got knocked on his butt because he gave it a passive aggressive review slamming the game as incomplete, and he's wrong.
 

Brancaleone

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Agree. Cleve might not be rich but he's not in financial straits doing programming and he's 54, his kids are grown up, the amount of fucks he gives right now are probably somewhere south of zero...
Given how the amount of hilariously retarded meltdowns is already quite north of zero, I'd say he obfuscates his actual age incredibly well.
 

felipepepe

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Sorry, felipepepe, but I can't take that seriously given the well publicised spat between you and Cleve. If I want to buy the game I want to know about the game
The game is so unbalanced that it cannot possibly be called "finished". How's that not about the game? That's exactly the same opinion I held before all this drama - it's what got me banned in the first place.

Anyway, the review is finished. The staff decides what to do.
 
Last edited:

cvv

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The game is so unbalanced that it cannot possibly be called "finished".

Seems to me like an awfully subjective wording to quarrel about.

Cleve acknowledged there are balance problems and admitted they're gonna be addressed. That's all I need to know. Let's just hope we aren't gonna wait another 20 years coz by then imma be way too busy chasing kids off my lawn.
 

PEACH

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It looks like the Official Codex Review is going to be compromised for reasons that have little to do with the game.
Cleve's the Shkreli of RPG developers, it's going to be difficult finding someone with a neutral view.

In the meantime, perhaps a True BeClever can finish Grimoire and bang out a review before Felipe finishes his, or at the very least provide one shortly after.

True becleavers aren't likely to set difficulty to zero and cheese to finish ASAP in order to rush to judgement.

More likely they have prejudged that the experience will be glorious and will instead savour it, restarting to try different builds, different paths, etc.

This is what I'm most curious about given that it seems he wasn't keen on the exploits yet continued to hammer through the game utilizing them.

It's as fair an option as any but having not finished myself and explicitly trying to avoid all those exploits I can't tell whether it's a necessity or a choice.

If it's the former the issue lies squarely on the game / Cleve, if it's the latter I'd say that's on FP and reflects a poor approach to making the most of the game.

Also agree with Roguey that if it's going to be spoken of as broken or early access there are tons of older canonized classics that would warrant the same treatment even to this day. It's in fairly rough shape but that's not exactly anomalous for the genre.
 

Zenyrrah

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My biggest problem with Pepe's post is he's basically hammering Cleve for the exact same thing Cleve himself admitted and promised to fix asap.
There's something on Steam called EARLY ACCESS that serves for this exact purpose.

Cleve chose to ignore it and release the game as "done" and charge top dollar for it. So I'm judging what he release, not what he says behind the forums he'll release one day.
First many of you guys spitting now at Cleve, pushed him to release the game in a already very unfriendly way. He released and again you are not satisfied. What is wrong with you people? Enough other games to play, go bitch your friendly neighbour or anyone closeby, see how that ends for you ...
 

felipepepe

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The game is so unbalanced that it cannot possibly be called "finished". How's that not about the game?
So is it good or not? You specifically stated in your steam review that you couldn't recommend it because of the developer being a dickhead (paraphrasing). How is that about the game?
Because you're paraphrasing like an idiot:

Properly balanced and polished, Grimoire would be an amazing RPG. However, for now it's clearly unfinished. The game should've been released in Early Access, so that people knew what they're getting into.

Sadly, posting this on the forums made the developer ban me. If he won't be honest about the state the game is, then I can't recommend it.
I highlighted the key parts. People have the right to know what they're getting into.
 

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