Realms of Arkania: Star Trail HD - less shovelware this time?

[YES!]

I had to reinstall the game to make sure I didn't miss anything. Just compare Kvirasim the original with the remake. I don't know how you can be serious about this being any form of improvement. The town got reduced to the interactive buildings, got populated with zombies and malformed trees and the swamp? apparently releases alot of fluorescent gasses. Probably they have some kind of hallucinogenic effect on the local populace, so they won't kill theselves. Traders apparently have to stand in front of their stallsand generally sitting seems to be not a pastime invented yet.

I know these would be idiotic nitpicks if this was a game from 2000, but here is the point, it is not. And instead of going full retard 3D, a high res 2D overhaul of the original could have produced a more pleasing result. Oh, but wait, that takes actual artistic competence and some kind of vision.
No gotta do 3D because... probably easier to model 3D shapes with the current tools than actually draw 2D stuff. Fuck them.

ST has new animated models that look good, look at the second trailer in steam.

As to your other points, BoD HD fixed the major bugs of the orginal, added a ton of new content, and changed things that kept millions from trying BoD, like the xp penalty for saving. If you think it looks bad, great. I think most AAA games look silly and like shit. My favorite graphics are the simple but sharp kind, like in ToEE, Wiz8, and I think the eschalon games had really sharp graphics. TToN had nice graphics.

I rate games on content, systems, and functionality. As long as it has a decent UI and not-ASCII graphics I don't give a shit.

But, checkout the trailers of ST, it improved on all the superficial shit everyone was whining about.

I assume you actually mean simple, less adorned, somehwat realistic models and gfx. I get it. What I do not however, is your whiteknighting of this particular unity abomination. Either you have no developed taste and eat what you get served if it's ye old skool rpg labelled, or you are a trolling shitposter.
Why does this game need a full uncanny valley 3D remake? Why not try to recreate it faithfully - in the spirit of the blobbers of that age. And that's the point - it's a remake, i'd be way more lenient if it was a new game. The team is just not capable of doing it properly, that's all.

I assume you dislike actual rpgs and should stick to your hipster games with their fancy graphics like Witcher 3, minecraft, Metal Gear, and Undertail.

My whiteknighting has to do with supporting a great game and developers who have worked their asses off recreating the best rpg trilogy and need the support from real rpg fans. Again, fake rpgs wouldn't like the originals nor the remakes. It has been said a million times, you guys dislike the graphics because form is more important than function. There is more hipster shit being made for you guys than you can play. But for real rpg fans, who play rpgs primarily and because they actually love the real genre, we don't have a backlog of games we can play. We have few games made for us and we play the shit out of them over and over for 30 years. When an actual rpg with some depth and complexity is made, especially a remake of the best rpg trilogy ever made, that significantly improved the first entry with additional content and bug fixes, and will hopefully make a lot of additional content for the new entry, we buy it and and want other people with good taste and a love of the genre to do the same.

Again, this isn't for you guys. You think the graphics suck. Its been said a million times. Go play Pyre and Dishonored and Dark Souls and leave us alone. Hell, there is a new stick figure black and white child's game that was just released that is right up you guys' ally. Go espouse how charming the graphcis of that is and how the gameplay is rock solid and emergent and stay the fuck out of this thread.

 

[Snorkack]

Dude's priceless :D

 

[Infinitron]

Does anyone know this guy? State of Arkania 2 is sorely needed

I believe sser made that video.

 

[coldcrow]

You don't get it. I don't think the gfx suck because they lack shader3.0 and 8xSMAA and you'd need a 1090GTX to display them. I think they suck because they are straight uncanny valley and remind me of early Poser stuff. No one here maligns Underrail and AoD, to name two great games with less than stellar graphics. But they have a proper aesthetic direction and generally fit together. In RoA2 remake they don't. It's just ugly, not because it lacks any HD stuff, but they had no artists worth their money. Also that fucking UI, it looks so uninspired and soulless.
This is not a good remake.

 

[YES!]

You don't get it. I don't think the gfx suck because they lack shader3.0 and 8xSMAA and you'd need a 1090GTX to display them. I think they suck because they are straight uncanny valley and remind me of early Poser stuff. No one here maligns Underrail and AoD, to name two great games with less than stellar graphics. But they have a proper aesthetic direction and generally fit together. In RoA2 remake they don't. It's just ugly, not because it lacks any HD stuff, but they had no artists worth their money. Also that fucking UI, it looks so uninspired and soulless.
This is not a good remake.

More meaningless hot air and empty platitudes from someone who places form over function. Hipster girl-men key words - uninspired, soulless, charming, etc. Plenty of people knocked AoDs graphics. Hell, even when Star Trail first came out the graphics where shit on. No one shit on BoD because no one bought it, but Star Trail was on the cover of Computer Gaming or whatever the big computer mag was at the time. When I bought it at EB (when EB had mostly computer games) the sales guy wondered why I didn't buy a game with better graphics, like LoL. LoL, one of the first series for people like you, who like form over function, and the superficial over depth and complexity.

The towns in the ST remake look way better than the towns in Skyrim, way better than the towns in most games I've played. I'd don't want to argue about it with someone who knows nothing about anything important and plays hipster shit for kids.

 

[coldcrow]

Describing artistic qualities can - without doing some tl,dr analyses - only be done in attributes. English is not my mothertongue and I usually don't put much effort into my posts, so the fallback attributes are exactly those. I am curious: Do you really think the remake UI looks good?
Not that I have to defend myself: but I have been playing most of the same stuff as you (wizardries, toee, roguelikes, etc).
And you don't seem to get the point. The original functions perfectly, the improvments of the remake do not outweigh the newly introduced shortcomings: ugly design, new bugs, annoying combat 3D camera, less strict rules. If that would have been a new game, it would have been ok. In my opinion they are mutilating a great game series, and I really dread what they will do to Shadows over Riva.

 

[sser]

Does anyone know this guy? State of Arkania 2 is sorely needed

I believe sser made that video.

Yup. With ye olde Windows Movie Maker (RIP).

 

[YES!]

Describing artistic qualities can - without doing some tl,dr analyses - only be done in attributes. English is not my mothertongue and I usually don't put much effort into my posts, so the fallback attributes are exactly those. I am curious: Do you really think the remake UI looks good?
Not that I have to defend myself: but I have been playing most of the same stuff as you (wizardries, toee, roguelikes, etc).
And you don't seem to get the point. The original functions perfectly, the improvments of the remake do not outweigh the newly introduced shortcomings: ugly design, new bugs, annoying combat 3D camera, less strict rules. If that would have been a new game, it would have been ok. In my opinion they are mutilating a great game series, and I really dread what they will do to Shadows over Riva.

I don't pay attention to how a UI looks, just functions, and the new UI functions a lot better than the original. The rules are not dumbed down one bit besides the xp penalty for saving, and I think only BoD had that, I am sure Shadows over Riva didn't because I played it again not too long ago.

I dislike rotatable anything. I hate fucking with a camera. Thankfully, I usually don't have to in the combat in this game. But the fact that there is a rotatable camera annoys me. The fact that I get to play a new version of one of my favorite game series I played a bazillion times in a different way makes me very happy. The bugs from the originals being fixed makes me very happy. The modability of the new versions and the opportunities it presents makes me very happy. The new content added to BoD made me very happy. The much more common sense functioning UI made me very happy. The ability to support devs remaking the greatest rpg trilogy made makes me very happy.

I dislike 3d. I actually dislike fancy graphics because the cost of it angers me when every game with fancy graphics has such shallow gameplay. Just think of how many good games could be made with the budget of a Bethesda or Bioware game that focuses on the important part of games - gameplay and systems, not graphics.

I say fancy because good is relative when it comes to art. In very few games do I actually pause to look at graphics that catch my attention and stand out to me. Off the top of my head is the herb ladies house with the thatched roof in the original Quest for Glory (Heroes Quest at the time), the reflective floors and temple in Arnika in Wiz8, the basilisk symbol and menu at the start of Eschalon, the trees in ToEE, and the new cities and buildings in this new Star Trail. I honestly don't understand how anyone could think the new cities look bad. They look amazing. Very sharp and crisp. Since the new version doesn't start with a configuration tool in defaulted to everyone up all the way (I usually turn graphics down because they do nothing for me) but I left them for this game so maybe that it is why I am seeing something different than you. Maybe the others showing pictures have everything down to the lowest since they want to make the game look bad or are running on potatoes. I don't know, I just know the city graphics are better than any city graphics I've noticed. And these games are worth supporting not just for what they are doing but for what they bring to the table.

 

[thesheeep]

In this thread: YES! loses touch with reality

Here is a valid reason to play the remakes:
Your archers can actually shoot at shit not only in straight or diagonal lines. I remember the absurd positioning mambo in the originals.

Of course, when you start out, it won't make a difference as your characters will miss 90% of the time anyway.
But that is due to RoA system for low-level chars being an atrocity (and I say that as someone who played the PnP for years).
I love the system in general, but for new chars (and players) it is simply annoying as your characters will fail half the time even at stuff they are good at.

 

[YES!]

In this thread: YES! loses touch with reality

Here is a valid reason to play the remakes:
Your archers can actually shoot at shit not only in straight or diagonal lines. I remember the absurd positioning mambo in the originals.

Of course, when you start out, it won't make a difference as your characters will miss 90% of the time anyway.
But that is due to RoA system for low-level chars being an atrocity (and I say that as someone who played the PnP for years).
I love the system in general, but for new chars (and players) it is simply annoying as your characters will fail half the time even at stuff they are good at.

In what way? By actually trying to promote a great game? If that makes me out of touch with reality I prefer the land of make believe. But we all know who are the ones living in crazy town, and it isn't the guy who rates a game on graphics, or sees the new town graphics and thinks anything bad.

And I think in Bod you actually could only shoot straight, diagonal came in with ST. I could be wrong, but I remember never bothering with archery in BoD, and always starting with, but never keeping with it in ST and RoA (mainly due to the hassle of buying arrows and the weight of arrow stacks versus my OCD need to loot everything).

 

[thesheeep]

And I think in Bod you actually could only shoot straight, diagonal came in with ST.

Yes, quite possible.

It's not like the remakes have no improvements, nobody denies that.
But they also have a shitload of bugs (the BoD remake still, though no more fully game breaking ones), an enormous amount of design and control issues, very inconsistent art direction and just plain fugly art in many places, weird UI (yeah the original's UI wasn't great, either, but that was then and today players can expect something better in this regard), an absolutely obnoxious narrator voice, ...

It's three steps forward, (at least) five steps back.
That is the reality you seem to be completely blind to. If none of that bothers you, great for you.
I for one cannot look past all those flaws and just pretend the remakes are better than the originals. Because they aren't. And that frustrates me. Because they should be.

 

[coldcrow]

And I think in Bod you actually could only shoot straight, diagonal came in with ST.

Yes, quite possible.

It's not like the remakes have no improvements, nobody denies that.
But they also have a shitload of bugs (the BoD remake still, though no more fully game breaking ones), an enormous amount of design and control issues, very inconsistent art direction and just plain fugly art in many places, weird UI (yeah the original's UI wasn't great, either, but that was then and today players can expect something better in this regard), an absolutely obnoxious narrator voice, ...

It's three steps forward, (at least) five steps back.
That is the reality you seem to be completely blind to. If none of that bothers you, great for you.
I for one cannot look past all those flaws and just pretend the remakes are better than the originals. Because they aren't. And that frustrates me. Because they should be.

Well said. :russiastronk:

 

[Lurker King]

And you don't seem to get the point. The original functions perfectly, the improvments of the remake do not outweigh the newly introduced shortcomings: ugly design, new bugs, annoying combat 3D camera, less strict rules. If that would have been a new game, it would have been ok. In my opinion they are mutilating a great game series, and I really dread what they will do to Shadows over Riva.

This. I was thinking. Some developers are always trying to jump in the latest popamole fashion. Thus, they killed the genre by flooding the market with games that are barely recognizable as cRPGs. Consequently, the genre mutated it into a monstrosity that distorts the cultural expectations players have about cRPGs. There is another group that tries to make new versions of old games, or new games that should be spiritual successors of the first ones, but always delivered subpar modernized games. I don’t get it, because by doing this they fail to connect with their hardcore supporters and fail to please the popamole crowd. It’s the worst of both worlds. It is as if they were doing this moved by a guilty conscience, because they didn’t thought things trough or because they do not have any more passion for their craft. We need to keep this culture alive by supporting these games, and promoting their values and history, etc., but I don’t see how you can make this with half assed efforts and compromises. cRPG development it is like a somersault: either you go with everything you have and without blinking, or you will fail.

 

[YES!]

And I think in Bod you actually could only shoot straight, diagonal came in with ST.

Yes, quite possible.

It's not like the remakes have no improvements, nobody denies that.
But they also have a shitload of bugs (the BoD remake still, though no more fully game breaking ones), an enormous amount of design and control issues, very inconsistent art direction and just plain fugly art in many places, weird UI (yeah the original's UI wasn't great, either, but that was then and today players can expect something better in this regard), an absolutely obnoxious narrator voice, ...

It's three steps forward, (at least) five steps back.
That is the reality you seem to be completely blind to. If none of that bothers you, great for you.
I for one cannot look past all those flaws and just pretend the remakes are better than the originals. Because they aren't. And that frustrates me. Because they should be.

You only actual flaw you stated was it being ugly - which is no real flaw. It is just opinion based on the first remake and was addressed in ST. Have you played ST?

 

[Eriador]

Just finished the game.

Spoiler

Everytime someone died, I've replaced them with a new character instead of trying to get them ressurected. The total deathcount was 15 characters, only one of the original group survived.

Overall, I liked it more then Blade of Destiny HD. It was WAAAY more stable, had less bugs and the only game-breaking bug I've found was patch pretty much immediately. The Dwarven Pit and Lowangen were definitely the best parts of the game, the Swamp was the worst, since it was boring and empty.

There's also some "simplified" version of character advancement/creation that changes it to point-buy instead of increase attempts, but you can switch to the "classic" one.

Still, if anyone here's actually interested in this game, I'd wait a month or two before they patch this further. They are still adding minor features after launch, like the possibility to rob stores.

Not sure about how it compares to the original, as I've never played it.

 

[YES!]

Just finished the game.

Spoiler

Everytime someone died, I've replaced them with a new character instead of trying to get them ressurected. The total deathcount was 15 characters, only one of the original group survived.

Overall, I liked it more then Blade of Destiny HD. It was WAAAY more stable, had less bugs and the only game-breaking bug I've found was patch pretty much immediately. The Dwarven Pit and Lowangen were definitely the best parts of the game, the Swamp was the worst, since it was boring and empty.

There's also some "simplified" version of character advancement/creation that changes it to point-buy instead of increase attempts, but you can switch to the "classic" one.

Still, if anyone here's actually interested in this game, I'd wait a month or two before they patch this further. They are still adding minor features after launch, like the possibility to rob stores.

Not sure about how it compares to the original, as I've never played it.

Its good to see someone with taste and a little sophistication on this site. I personally like the swamp and I'm not sure why. Maybe because there a lot of fights and it is a tricky part to figure out on your own. I liked how they did it in this version too. It could use a couple more events, and it would probably be better if more compacted, but not bad.

 

[coldcrow]

Just finished the game.
Not sure about how it compares to the original, as I've never played it.

Refined taste, alright! The main point of critique leveraged against this piece of code is that it does not improve over the original. While I admire your relentless crusade for crpg paradise, I cannot fathom why you spend your energy on such failed rehashes. Once they decided to go unity 3D, this whole thing was doomed,

 

[YES!]

Just finished the game.
Not sure about how it compares to the original, as I've never played it.

Refined taste, alright! The main point of critique leveraged against this piece of code is that it does not improve over the original. While I admire your relentless crusade for crpg paradise, I cannot fathom why you spend your energy on such failed rehashes. Once they decided to go unity 3D, this whole thing was doomed,

Does not improve how? What specifically, besides the pixel art (and as far as I know all computer graphics are pixels, right?) was not improved? The 3d rotatable camera was not necessary in combat, but isn't as much of a hassle as they usually are with the games the popamole posers love. Everything else was certainly and most definitely improved, better documented, and the kicker is the extra content and mod support. Granted, the mod thing is a million times better for Germans, but if you fucking superficial pussies got over your hoity toity artsy fancy smance shtick and bought and played this gem more would be made and translated. Making a game better than the original in every way even better.

 

[Darth Roxor]

besides the pixel art (and as far as I know all computer graphics are pixels, right?)

 

[thesheeep]

Great, now I can't stop laughing.

 

[YES!]

Great, now I can't stop laughing.

At your poor taste? Or your support of the decline of the genre we should all like here?

 

[vonAchdorf]

Just finished the game.

Spoiler

Is this all or does it have a proper epilogue?

 

[Eriador]

Just finished the game.

Spoiler

Is this all or does it have a proper epilogue?

It does have a proper epilogue, but it's all text, no cutscenes or even images,

 

[vonAchdorf]

A bit lame, the old ones had some animated images at least.

 

[mushaden]

So basically the RPG codex top 50 number 8 just got an upgrade! I'm gonna buy and play Blade of Destiny as soon as I finish Wizardry 7. Does this change the game to the extent that there are no more superfluous skills? I know that's one issue people have with the originals... many of the skills are from the pen and paper rules and never used in the actual game.