Grimoire Thread

[jfunk]

Have I just had an incredible streak of luck or did Cleve drastically bump up the number of HP, MP, and stat boosts you get at level up?

 

[NotAGolfer]

Essentially, the way it is supposed to work is that hard = big reward, easy = no reward. Younger people were brought up with no 'hard', so they never get the reward that hard brings. Like I said, I am not being critical. I would no more look at a walkthrough than I would use Zep's trainer, because both take away the very thing that good games (this is one, despite flaws that a clown could see) provide... that being, a challenge.

Nice condescending post but this is Codex so whatever.
You're also completely wrong though. A shitty inventory and char review interface that in the end amounts to 1/3 of the time spent in the game does not a good game make. And if that interface even forgets to give you crucial information like the fucking weapon stats (or at least attack modifiers for each char) or if a gate is just background decoration or can actually be opened then it gets ridiculous.
You don't need that kind of "hard" to get satisfaction. RoA did it light years better and that game was released just a year later than Wiz VI ffs.

 

[jfunk]

Essentially, the way it is supposed to work is that hard = big reward, easy = no reward. Younger people were brought up with no 'hard', so they never get the reward that hard brings. Like I said, I am not being critical. I would no more look at a walkthrough than I would use Zep's trainer, because both take away the very thing that good games (this is one, despite flaws that a clown could see) provide... that being, a challenge.

Nice condescending post but this is Codex so whatever.
You're also completely wrong though. A shitty inventory and char review interface that in the end amounts to 1/3 of the time spent in the game does not a good game make. And if that interface even forgets to give you crucial information like the fucking weapon stats (or at least attack modifiers for each char) or if a gate is just background decoration or can actually be opened then it gets ridiculous.
You don't need that kind of "hard" to get satisfaction. RoA did it light years better and that game was released just a year later than Wiz VI ffs.

You just read that post completely out of context and projected your own failures into it. He was responding to a post that had absolutely nothing to do with the UI issues of Grimoire, but rather one discussing the general difficulty of knowing what to do and how to solve puzzles in Wizardry.

Way to out yourself as a retard.

 

[Irenaeus]

Way to out yourself as a retard.

The prison he's in should be a clue.

 

[Cyler Rubin]

Thanks to this game I am playing Wizardry 7 for my initial play. I'm not good at it but mostly am just interested in these games. I'm a musician and I play these games to just learn about role playing in general, which I consider very interesting and imaginative. This release has had a big influence on me despite that I am not playing Grimoire, and can't even really play it right now since I use a Mac. I am also poor atm. I intend to buy it in the future after beating Wizardry 7.

That said I am honestly slightly curious how the fuck you guys figure stuff out, like story/puzzle wise. I like to think I'm intelligent but I think I am not getting deep into the game enough. I just want to keep killing shit and I have no idea where to look, get bored and look at a walkthrough. I doubt I'll ever really be the kind of person who plays entire games routinely just because my time is finite and mathematically there just isn't enough of it for me to play more than a few ...

I chose to put hundreds of hours into the seventh of the series over finishing the modern Fallout games because I felt that when reading about Grimoire, Cleve and others were onto something about Wizardry simply being a better and more rewarding gaming experience. I could play one or the other, but not both. I want Wizardry to be one of those games I actually finish, and I really think it belongs on the list of games that are widely known about today. I can't quite articulate why... it simply seems to me that until now this style of RPG had little mainstream following. I must say, once you can grasp what it's about, it's much more fun. I played Morrowind and I used to think that was the most dank gaming experience there was. I feel like if people had told me about this, and directed me in the proper direction, I would have saved a lot of my time and energy.

I feel like I can't be hardcore enough though. After an hour of wandering and leveling up and not being able to figure out who to talk to or whatever to do the next thing, I look at my wristwatch and think about how I am spending the small amount of time I have on this planet, and tend to look at a walkthrough. To be honest, I feel like that ruins it a bit. And I don't know to what extent that's my personal fault. I feel like to a large extent there is just absolutely no fucking way you could possibly figure out what to do next, and I'm at a major loss how people can play these games without folding and using walkthroughs. What the FUCK are you doing to progress without giving in and looking at the answer? Seriously. I hate to think of myself as a nerd or freak who sits around and takes games seriously, so that's probably why I am not giving in and getting all the way into it. This is some nerdy as fuck shit and I feel like the second I start getting that into it, I'll somehow render myself a permanently insta-virgin shut in. I mean I'm already halfway there I'm just scared to commit like that.

So just tell me how the fuck do you guys figure out how to progress in these games. I'm trashed

Without taking the piss... I bet you are young. If I am wrong, stop here and read the next post. Young people have been brought up with a borked 'value' and reward system. The reasons are too complex to go into here. Essentially, the way it is supposed to work is that hard = big reward, easy = no reward. Younger people were brought up with no 'hard', so they never get the reward that hard brings. Like I said, I am not being critical. I would no more look at a walkthrough than I would use Zep's trainer, because both take away the very thing that good games (this is one, despite flaws that a clown could see) provide... that being, a challenge. You aren't challenged, thus you get no reward, which in turn reinforces the whole thing in a negative feedback loop.

/lecture off

I wish you well. Play Wiz, and that might teach you the value of stuggle vs reward, then in a decade or two, when this game is finished, come play it and bask in its glory.

Note: no apostrophe in the above. It's a pronoun

Keep in mind a slight counterpoint to this is that alot of these games are judged rather harshly by the very ease of access and gameplay features introduced BECAUSE of the groundwork they laid. When going back and playing through the classics a certain view would be best employed as many of the things people write off today as folly and flawed game design were MASSIVE strides forward at the time. Bearing that in mind, ,it might be a bit easier to enjoy these games for what they are rather than lament that they lack more advanced features that they made way for. Keep in mind (at least personally for myself) during the time these games came out I held them in a far less critical eye given that the market wasn't precisely flooded with alternatives and different approaches to the staples thereof, as it is today. I have a friend who often makes fun of me for playing such archaic titles, but I still cherish them, while admitting their shortcomings, I can appreciate what was a revolutionary step at the time, and see where things led rather than deride them based on things that had yet to come. Either way, sorry if I sound like I'm "back in mah dayin' ya, just hoping it might give you a better appreciation of the games. I can recall getting frustrated and stuck often myself, not fun, but the real pride came in figuring it out, discussing and sharing knowledge and info with other players if you could and finally rising to the challenge. Anyway, I wish ya luck on the wizardry front!

 

[Mynon]

Essentially, the way it is supposed to work is that hard = big reward, easy = no reward. Younger people were brought up with no 'hard', so they never get the reward that hard brings. Like I said, I am not being critical. I would no more look at a walkthrough than I would use Zep's trainer, because both take away the very thing that good games (this is one, despite flaws that a clown could see) provide... that being, a challenge.

Nice condescending post but this is Codex so whatever.
You're also completely wrong though. A shitty inventory and char review interface that in the end amounts to 1/3 of the time spent in the game does not a good game make. And if that interface even forgets to give you crucial information like the fucking weapon stats (or at least attack modifiers for each char) or if a gate is just background decoration or can actually be opened then it gets ridiculous.
You don't need that kind of "hard" to get satisfaction. RoA did it light years better and that game was released just a year later than Wiz VI ffs.

This.

 

[karnak]

HP Lovecraft was a racist who thought all races besides whiteys were inferior and degenerate and yet he is beloved (and my favorite writer of all time too)

People are starting to hate him now.

Nobody likes lovecraft. People like the Cthulhu meme. Nobody likes lovecraft. Most of the normies I speak to generally repeat the same talking point Re: lovecraft.

So you can generally hear most normie opinions given to them by the narrative on lovecraft as thus: HP Lovecraft is the father of Cosmic Horror as a concept, and Cthulhu is so cool, but he was a racist, and other people's expansion on his ideas were better than the original work. That's generally what's going on.

Nobody likes Lovecraft because he was a decent human being who liked to help people and had no problem in letting others borrow his work and ideas in their own literary creations. He was a racist (or more likely a xenophobic), sure. But so was that fat alcoholic cuck Hemingway (among many other writers/artists/thinkers of the time) and nobody seems to care.
There's no evidence that Lovecraft ever mistreated a black dude or some kind of foreigner. Again, stupid sheeple usually look at what one says and not at what one does.

If Lovecraft was a drunk, a woman beater, an hipster pedophile or some sort of fag, filled with money and well-known in the "marxist sociology circles" then he'd still be seen today as a groundbreaking and revolutionary writer, with "complex" ideas and lifestyle.

Since he was a simple man, with a simple life without vices he's seen today as a "racist fascist", by all the System-Slaves.

Fact is: Lovecraft is and will remain famous. Karl Marx, on the other hand, will be completely forgotten from human memory and culture in 50 years max.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Fact is: Lovecraft is and will remain famous. Karl Marx, on the other hand, will be completely forgotten from human memory and culture in 50 years max.

The only way Carl Marx will be forgotten is majority of people will stop learning about history at school. If that happens, Lovercraft, Hemingway, Shakespeare and etc. will be forgotten along with Carl Marx.

 

[Achelexus]

I'm so confused about this game, is there any wiki or compilation of resources explaining everything?

 

[Crospy]

Nobody likes lovecraft. People like the Cthulhu meme.

This. Not to mention that The Call of Cthulhu is far from being his best work but normies latched onto it for some reason.

Meh, cthulhu is the most popular memestuff but as far as lovecraftian influences go in literature, Hollywood and gaming I'd argue The Shadow over Innsmouth has been his most popular and important work. Even games that bear the Cthulhu title for marketing reasons, like Dark Corners of the Earth, show far more inspiration from this novel than from the 'Call of Cthulhu'. The atmosphere of investigating a small town that keeps its darkest secrets, the corruption of beings that isn't solely psychic but also physical, the focus more pronounced on the cult itself and human/deep ones organization as opposed to the cosmic horror itself, the chase..

Make no mistake, Lovecraft's touch and influence in horror is undeniable. Even movies without direct, in-your-face lovecraft references like Hellraiser, the original one, just oozes lovecraftian influences. Mystery box found through shady antiquities dealers, the descent into madness and desire to solve the puzzle that comes from a yearning of the soul, the cenobites which aren't naturally born demonic creatures but humans corrupted by the darkness, the higher dimensions that can't be comprehended by the mind..

 

[Cyler Rubin]

Nobody likes lovecraft. People like the Cthulhu meme.

This. Not to mention that The Call of Cthulhu is far from being his best work but normies latched onto it for some reason.

Meh, cthulhu is the most popular memestuff but as far as lovecraftian influences go in literature, Hollywood and gaming I'd argue The Shadow over Innsmouth has been his most popular and important work. Even games that bear the Cthulhu title for marketing reasons, like Dark Corners of the Earth, show far more inspiration from this novel than from the 'Call of Cthulhu'. The atmosphere of investigating a small town that keeps its darkest secrets, the corruption of beings that isn't solely psychic but also physical, the focus more pronounced on the cult itself and human/deep ones organization as opposed to the cosmic horror itself, the chase..

Make no mistake, Lovecraft's touch and influence in horror is undeniable. Even movies without direct, in-your-face lovecraft references like Hellraiser, the original one, just oozes lovecraftian influences.

Always found it rather sad that popular culture for the most part took the Cthulhu mythos and other than a few nods (IE. true detective and a handful of others) basically ignored his Chambers inspired King in Yellow material, always found that vein far more compelling.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Essentially, the way it is supposed to work is that hard = big reward, easy = no reward. Younger people were brought up with no 'hard', so they never get the reward that hard brings. Like I said, I am not being critical. I would no more look at a walkthrough than I would use Zep's trainer, because both take away the very thing that good games (this is one, despite flaws that a clown could see) provide... that being, a challenge.

Nice condescending post but this is Codex so whatever.
You're also completely wrong though. A shitty inventory and char review interface that in the end amounts to 1/3 of the time spent in the game does not a good game make. And if that interface even forgets to give you crucial information like the fucking weapon stats (or at least attack modifiers for each char) or if a gate is just background decoration or can actually be opened then it gets ridiculous.
You don't need that kind of "hard" to get satisfaction. RoA did it light years better and that game was released just a year later than Wiz VI ffs.

You just read that post completely out of context and projected your own failures into it. He was responding to a post that had absolutely nothing to do with the UI issues of Grimoire, but rather one discussing the general difficulty of knowing what to do and how to solve puzzles in Wizardry.

Way to out yourself as a retard.

What you little piece of trash completely missed is the fact that my post was about Wizardry too.
I couldn't care less about that cargo cult Wiz clone you guys are discussing itt.

But nice to know that Cleve also copypasted the UI issues without thinking so it's even possible to misinterpret my post in that way.

edit:
Fuck it, I just deleted my Wiz VI game folder. What a pointless grind. I really don't like that compartmentalized dungeon layout in the dwarven mines. Also it dawned on me that the grind is the game. And just the grind, there's nothing else to it.
So I installed WizVII now, hope that the UI is better there and that there are a few more decisions I can make when leveling up my chars. Beyond switching classes that is, felt more like a cop out for borked character in most cases.

 

[makchanka]

HP Lovecraft was a racist who thought all races besides whiteys were inferior and degenerate and yet he is beloved (and my favorite writer of all time too)

No, he appreciated azns as "aesthetic superiors", specifically the Japanese (very funny to us now).

A lot of modern fascists also admire the Japanese. It's weird. It has to do with the whole ethnonationalism thing they have going on, as well as their history as a former Axis power and imperialist shitheap.

Basically, Wehraboos love Japan for the same reasons that everyone else hates Japan.

 

[makchanka]

HP Lovecraft was a racist who thought all races besides whiteys were inferior and degenerate and yet he is beloved (and my favorite writer of all time too)

People are starting to hate him now.

Nobody likes lovecraft. People like the Cthulhu meme. Nobody likes lovecraft. Most of the normies I speak to generally repeat the same talking point Re: lovecraft.

So you can generally hear most normie opinions given to them by the narrative on lovecraft as thus: HP Lovecraft is the father of Cosmic Horror as a concept, and Cthulhu is so cool, but he was a racist, and other people's expansion on his ideas were better than the original work. That's generally what's going on.

I like Lovecraft's writing. It's a fucking weird-ass mess of overwrought spergery, but it gets the job done. I've read most of his stuff and you'd definitely call me a normie (not a virgin, have a job, don't live with parents, don't get my politics from some stupid forum culture or youtube propagandist, etc.).

You can't and shouldn't separate art from artist, but you can still appreciate art made by shitty artists as long as you acknowledge who the artist was. Nobody is perfect. Lovecraft was a full-blown piece of shit who probably should have had his face stamped in, but he wrote some decent shit. Part of why his shit was decent was because of what an awful mess he was. He was terrified of the most mundane things (race mixing, the ocean, etc.), and was able to express that in his work in a way that actually communicated how he felt--like that one story where the guy finds out he's an octoroon and blows his brains out. It's kinda like shit made by Woody Allen. Woody Allen is a pedophile who should have his dick shot off, but he made some alright movies. Speaking of film, we owe a lot, artistically speaking, to Birth of a Nation, whose maker should have been horse-whipped until dead.

I think it's important to be honest in our evaluation of both art and artist. People either discount important art entirely because of fucked up artists or ignore fucked up artists entirely because of decent art. Both are stupid.

I've never read any of the "expanded universe" shit, because it sounds stupid.

 

[buru5]

What the fuck? I thought this thread was about Grimoire?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Way to out yourself as a retard.

The prison he's in should be a clue.

Your retard is out of prison. For now, that is.

So, I understand this has been in development for twenty years. Should I buy it now, or wait for it to stabilize a little?

Kidding aside, I'm completely new to blobbers, and I understand Grimoire's approved by experienced people. Is it a good entry point into blobbers or should I start with other games first?

 

[Valky]

It's still mind boggling to think that Grimoire has been released for a week now.

 

[karnak]

Fact is: Lovecraft is and will remain famous. Karl Marx, on the other hand, will be completely forgotten from human memory and culture in 50 years max.

The only way Carl Marx will be forgotten is majority of people will stop learning about history at school. If that happens, Lovercraft, Hemingway, Shakespeare and etc. will be forgotten along with Carl Marx.

School, like History, is an institution that remains in the hands of the "victors".
The only thing which is taught in schools is the stuff that the "System" allows to be taught. No wonder that the educational system nowadays only works in order to create junkies, kids with low self-esteem or severe mental and social issues and all other kind of Drones.

Lovecraft never needed to go to college (he never even finished high-school) in order to learn his craft. As for Karl Marx, it's said that he didn't even liked to wash himself.

One wrote about the corruption of society and humanity and about forbidden books which would help bring about the end of the civilized world.
The other wrote books which were forbidden and caused the corruption and decay of human society.

To this day I still think that the Soviet Revolution (regardless of the political ideas) is the best example of how to properly make a revolution. It all turned to shit eventually, but at least the russians had the balls to try and change their world for the better. They just read the wrong books.

Nowadays the retarded and neutered western world is trying to emulate what is already been proven to be a failed experiment.

So, yeah... I'll keep my Lovecraft and burn Marx instead. Interestingly, Lovecraft was 100% against the burning or censorship of books, since he strongly believed that books were repositories of knowledge which should be stored and kept safe for the benefit of mankind. Not very fascist or communist on his part, no.

 

[Lurker King]

John Walker and perhaps whoever he's arguing with is conflating skill ceilings with skill floors. Almost all RPGs back in the 80s and 90s had high skill floors, even if their ceilings were pretty low (e.g. Might and Magic, Fallout, even Torment if you actually try to fight things). There are grognards who want that high barrier to entry to keep the dummies out, even if many modern designers disagree.

I think there is a lack of understanding about how these things work. The cRPG genre became increasingly unpopular over the years and you have the commercial pressure to change the design in order to appease a new audience. This is like saying that new composers of classic music should make their songs more appealing to a pop audience in order to attract new costumers. Developers abandoned changed the nature of the genre in order to adapt, but killed the genre in the process. The fact that most of them are burnout after “growing up” should be viewed as a big red flag. If the very people who should ensure the future of the genre have no patience for cRPGs anymore, then there are very few alternatives left. Besides, cRPGs reception should be understood inside a cultural context that involves a community of gamers and their tacit expectations. You can’t just put a tutorial or a easy mode in a cRPG and expect random gamers to enjoy your work. It’s a cultural tradition that need to be passed on from one generation to the next. The irony is that most developers nowadays see this cultural tradition as obsolete and outdated. The very guardians of the genre are helping the consolidation of a Zeitgeist in which engrossing cRPGs are not possible.

 

[Irenaeus]

So, I understand this has been in development for twenty years. Should I buy it now, or wait for it to stabilize a little?

Kidding aside, I'm completely new to blobbers, and I understand Grimoire's approved by experienced people. Is it a good entry point into blobbers or should I start with other games first?

Buy now!!

 

[Roguey]

No, he appreciated azns as "aesthetic superiors", specifically the Japanese (very funny to us now).

Lovecraft was terrified of the yellow menace from China, believing they would eventually take over the world (one of Nyarlathotep's visions).

Lovecraft was a full-blown piece of shit who probably should have had his face stamped in

The guy was a harmless shut-in who tempered his racist ways near the end of his life.

 

[Country_Gravy]

How are sales? Will Cleve be able to finish his bunker and replenish the mac fund?

 

[Irenaeus]

Snorkack is a faggot.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

How are sales? Will Cleve be able to finish his bunker and replenish the mac fund?

https://steamspy.com/app/650670

Started your LP yet C_G?

 

[Snorkack]

Way to out yourself as a retard.

The prison he's in should be a clue.

Your retard is out of prison. For now, that is.

So, I understand this has been in development for twenty years. Should I buy it now, or wait for it to stabilize a little?

Kidding aside, I'm completely new to blobbers, and I understand Grimoire's approved by experienced people. Is it a good entry point into blobbers or should I start with other games first?

Wait. There seems to be a good game beneath this buggy mess, but what's going on in this thread is mostly virtue signaling among hardcore rpg fans.
If you never played blobbers before, play Wizardry 7. If you enjoyed that, you might give grimoire a shot. But beware, currently the developer is breaking the game on a daily basis. Chances are that the party you rolled today won't be playable anymore by tomorrow.

What will never be fixable: There is a huge gap in quality and style of the writing in Grimoire between the original Sirtech writers' work and what cleve added to the game. So if you value writing and immersion a great deal, stay away... but then you shouldn't play blobbers anyway.