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Grimoire Thread

Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
Remember your enemies are watching you Cleve, don't give up your secrets to these RPGMaker devs
nuke2.png


PddBJTI.png


It seems a special sort of butthurt to wish other indie developers ill

Szvrd47.png


Turns out his "old-school RPG with a better UI" is done in RPGMaker

http://store.steampowered.com/app/654250/Catacombs_1_Demon_War/
 

hitfan

Double Sided Games
Developer
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
310
He must be wracking his brain right now, seeing the world turn away from his beloved masterpiece.

I can't imagine the hurt he must be feeling when people call the work of art he has devoted 20 years of his life an early access.

Better that the savegame issues creep up now than later on when people have solved the game halfway through.

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. This is not that big of a deal.
 

Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal

Guest
The bug drama is proving to be even more entertaining than the release drama.

Savegames that mess up the game's source code. :lol: Cleve, you incompetent cunt. You should have kept this pile of shit unreleased forever.
 

Gepeu

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
986
I must come clean. Yes, I doubted. I was sure it won't come out. But then it happened and it shown me errors of my ways. Grimoire and everyone involved are my heroes of 2017. Shit's buggy for now, but it's magnificent as fuck. I don't even know if I will find time to play it properly (ie. locked in a room with diaper on).
 

vdweller

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
625
I think the game needed some more years until the suitable technology for running smoothly would be available to the public. In another 5 years, maybe, the knowledge of how to properly write a file to the hard disk would be finally shared. In another 10 years, it's a wild guess here folks but you never know, maybe we could find out how to properly render a pseudo-3d environment using BSPs, LINEDEFS, SEGS and SECTORS like DOOM did instead of turning around in-game and seeing walls all over the place.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The best course of action is to scrap the whole thing and just start over from scratch. People have already waited 20 years. What's another 20?
 

Crospy

Learned
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
130
There's a massive difference between using Bannerbomb to trigger a buffer overflow so you can install Homebrew Channel over one of the IOS portions of the Wii OS and coding a targeted virus for a system you presumably had no prior physical access to created to directly alter source code in an application to break save game functionality. I mean both are technically possible but they each have significant time investments and legal risks involved while only one of them has any real benefits beyond "do it for the lulz"

An easier way would be to just write a basic trojan horse as the executed code in the save. Then you could just remote into the target's computer and edit his files (also remember to temper with timestamps, you don't want people to notice stuff). It's not hard to do this kind of thing, you only need one exploit to achieve it, you don't need to root someone's machine for a basic trojan horse to work, if you only intend on accessing the user's files, then userland permissions are good to work with. For that same reason most malware these days are ransomware like cryptolocker since the number 1 thing people care about is their data, not whether you punked their reinstallable windows.

Again, I'm not saying it happened, or is what is happening. I'm just saying blanket statements like "saves can't have viruses" are a show of ignorance that makes me feel nothing but disgust when they come from people who claim to be programmers. I wouldn't even give a shit and write these posts if the people making the same claims were just dumb laymen. But if you're a "programmer" making such blanket statements you deserve to be laid off and never get a job again in the field. There should be no room for you to pollute the field with your ignorance and security malpractice. You probably don't even use fuzzers on your input to easily check for bugs.
 
Last edited:

hitfan

Double Sided Games
Developer
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
310
I must come clean. Yes, I doubted. I was sure it won't come out. But then it happened and it shown me errors of my ways. Grimoire and everyone involved are my heroes of 2017. Shit's buggy for now, but it's magnificent as fuck. I don't even know if I will find time to play it properly (ie. locked in a room with diaper on).

The game is beautiful and has atmosphere. Aside from the save game crap, it's pretty good.
 

Hannaaa

Literate
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
10
I really don't know what is going on with Grimoire, but I feel very sorry for Cleve. The guy has worked real hard on a great game and it must be terrible that the game won't run (save) as it was supposed to do. I know it's definitely shite to lose saved games, but I wouldn't want to be Cleve right now. Working hard and hating what is happening, knowing it is not going great and then you have to hear from all kinds of people what you already know. Give the guy a break, he knows it already!
 

Mynon

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
1,138
I think the game needed some more years until the suitable technology for running smoothly would be available to the public. In another 5 years, maybe, the knowledge of how to properly write a file to the hard disk would be finally shared. In another 10 years, it's a wild guess here folks but you never know, maybe we could find out how to properly render a pseudo-3d environment using BSPs, LINEDEFS, SEGS and SECTORS like DOOM did instead of turning around in-game and seeing walls all over the place.
sickest of burns
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
2,048
I really don't know what is going on with Grimoire, but I feel very sorry for Cleve. The guy has worked real hard on a great game and it must be terrible that the game won't run (save) as it was supposed to do. I know it's definitely shite to lose saved games, but I wouldn't want to be Cleve right now. Working hard and hating what is happening, knowing it is not going great and then you have to hear from all kinds of people what you already know. Give the guy a break, he knows it already!

The game can still save, it just can't overwrite saves. Honestly it sounds like a permissions issue, or he's got it so that these files are read-only and because of that cannot be edited.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655

GOLDEN ERA GAMES
[developer] Just now
Something Has Messed Up Grimoire So Badly I Can't Even Understand How It Is Possible
It has lost the ability with simple ANSI C file commands to overwrite a file or delete an existing one. I have never seen anything like it in thirty years of programming, never, on an application anywhere. "NO, DON'T OVERWRITE THIS FILE" is not a windows message. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?

The sample savegames were uploaded by people pirating the software. That was a pirated version they uploaded. There were pirates asking for support on this forum. I don't know if they have introduced a very ugly virus into the program. I trusted them when I had a look at their samples but discovered later these are all pirated copies they were ASKING FOR SUPPORT for on this forum.

These are simple file commands to create, write and erase files. I took out ALL file commands to get permissions for user app files and rolled BACK to what was there before. There is nothing to these commands, no special windows tokens for users, no file specs on files. I deleted my target directory and started in a new one. The problem is still there. Grimoire can't even simple create files, erase them and write news ones. I have never seen something so messed up.

This is why we can't have nice things on this planet.

I am running my AV software with new definitions and trying some new things with file permissions, I have to work carefully and see if I can isolate the problem. These aren't fancy Windows file writes we are talking about. These are vanilla C commands working for 20 years, never had a problem of any kind.

I am really sorry about this and working constantly on the problem. It's a shame because the game was just now reaching a nice stable version before this nightmare. Now it has basically been sabotaged in Steam ratings and is giving newcomers a terrible impression of the game.
Wait- What does this even mean.

Can someone translate please?

edit: Anyone?
I think I can decipher this somewhat. When he broke the saves with 1.2.0.7, he asked people to provide some Saves for him to test with, and some did, all of which have the "Game Owner" symbol on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615856043233/?ctp=3

He got really butthurt that some guy was apparently retarded and provided the entire Grimoire folder instead on Dropbox: http://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615856043233/?ctp=5#c1471967615860490197
Did you post the complete binaries of Grimoire on a dropbox site? That's a violation of your Steam contract.

I think he spun it out from there and made some strange connections.

He deleted that rant and just released the newest Update though: http://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615862858084/
Version 1.2.0.12
----------------------------------------

Okay, it looks like those problems are settled. As always, uninstall after copying out any files important to you, then reinstall new updated version, it will solve these problems

I commented out the user app data folder creation request but forgot to comment out the call to get the permissions token, leaving a security token open that did not have permission to overwrite existing files in some instances. This is fixed.

I am really praying this version can just settle down for a few days, remain stable and function well while I work on the manual. There are many fixes incorporated into this update from requests concerning some basic operations like naming parties and other game start concerns that are fixed in this version. It is like a "RENAME PART" function will be added to the game menu at some point.

He could have prevented a lot of this by simply leaving Auto-Updating off and not forcing the Save-breaking 1.2.0.7 on every owner of Grimoire...
 

Mech

Cipher
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
634
I really don't know what is going on with Grimoire, but I feel very sorry for Cleve. The guy has worked real hard on a great game and it must be terrible that the game won't run (save) as it was supposed to do. I know it's definitely shite to lose saved games, but I wouldn't want to be Cleve right now. Working hard and hating what is happening, knowing it is not going great and then you have to hear from all kinds of people what you already know. Give the guy a break, he knows it already!
This is a "reap what you sow" situation. This is what he gets for bragging about being the worlds best programmer for years.
I empathize with him, but certainly don't feel sorry for him, as he brought this on himself.
Of course this is under the assumption that he doesn't have a mental health condition.
 

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
There's a massive difference between using Bannerbomb to trigger a buffer overflow so you can install Homebrew Channel over one of the IOS portions of the Wii OS and coding a targeted virus for a system you presumably had no prior physical access to created to directly alter source code in an application to break save game functionality. I mean both are technically possible but they each have significant time investments and legal risks involved while only one of them has any real benefits beyond "do it for the lulz"

An easier way would be to just write a basic trojan horse as the executed code in the save. Then you could just remote into the target's computer and edit his files (also remember to temper with timestamps, you don't want people to notice stuff). It's not hard to do this kind of thing, you only need one exploit to achieve it, you don't need to root someone's machine for a basic trojan horse to work, if you only intend on accessing the user's files, then userland permissions are good to work with. For that same reason most malware these days are ransomware like cryptolocker since the number 1 thing people care about is their data, not whether you punked their reinstallable windows.

Again, I'm not saying it happened, or is what is happening. I'm just saying blanket statements like "saves can't have viruses" are a show of ignorance that makes me feel nothing but disgust when they come from people who claim to be programmers. I wouldn't even give a shit and write these posts if the people making the same claims were just dumb laymen. But if you're a "programmer" making such blanket statements you deserve to be laid off and never get a job again in the field. There should be no room for you to pollute the field with your ignorance and security malpractice. You probably don't even use fuzzers on your input to easily check for bugs.

Eh, you're right in theory, at least. I can't make any real claim to being a programmer, I just know my way around a computer.

Still, though, if one were to create a trojan based around exploiting Grimoire of all things to install a remote access tool on a Windows 7/Windows 10 machine when a save is loaded, would they not need more time to find an exploit? Not only that, wouldn't the save file itself be suspiciously larger than any of the other saves Cleve has seen/received? He'd be the one most familiar with the structure and typical sizes of his saves, that would set off a red flag right away. Not only that, but with these anti-virus programs nowadays unless Cleve is running basically nothing, even if the virus is 0-day wouldn't the AV detect RAT-like behavior with the heuristic file system shield and flag the save with an alert?

This is all assuming that an attacker is motivated enough to target Cleve in a way that would destroy his reputation without doing anything overtly criminal like stealing his bank information, getting his Steam admin account credentials, or anything as such. If the attacker in Cleve's scenario exists, there's only one man I can think of who would do something so petty, so inconsequential, so utterly annoying....

Anyways just saw the patch notes. I was thinking it had something to do with commenting when I saw the "NO, DON'T OVERWRITE" filename. Knew it had to be something silly like that.
 
Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
Apart from user testing of patches which everyone has gone over at length, perhaps this 'work all day on a patch, release then go to bed' approach isn't the best either. He's been working long hours but these problems emerging while he's asleep and then going unresolved for hours are causing a lot of frustration for people who haven't been following the forums and a number have ragequit or changed their reviews accordingly.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
Patron
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3,348
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
Of course this is under the assumption that he doesn't have a mental health condition.
He stated quite a few times, including on the Steam forums, that he is in fact an aspie. Probably self-diagnosed, though.

My real experience working with a few aspies for years is that they can be highly intelligent, having a real mind for data and systems. However, they are often scattered or myopic in their focus so as to lose perspective or the ability to self-regulate or snap out of it. Your mileage may vary.
 

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