Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Grimoire Class Discussion/Beginner's Tips

youhomofo

Augur
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
142
Having one thread for discussion is chaotic, plus there are way too many spoilers. We need moar threads! I've been bookmarking useful info as I go along, but that's a pain. So I'm going to shamelessly steal helpful info from other threads and add it here for the sake of organization and maintaining own sanity.

Stat Requirements for Prestige Classes - as stolen from Roguey who stole from someone else:

A pirate requires the following minimum stats (the 40s are all human racial minimums so idk what the minimums are there):
int 40
wis 40
wil 55
str 50

con 40
spe 55
agi 60
fel 50

dev 40
met 40
des 10

Assassin:
int 65
wis 40
wil 40
str 50
con 40
spe 50
agi 50

fel 40
dev 50
met 40
des 10

JESTER! wow this guy has high requirements
int 70
wis 40
wil 50
str 60

con 40
spe 65
agi 75
fel 75
dev 55

met 40
des 10

Magic School Availability stolen from Mondblut without permission:

WIZARD spell list is accessible to BARDs starting with level 3.
CLERIC spell list is accessible to TEMPLARS and BARDS (Jesus...) starting with level 3. Yes, starting with level 3 your bard can replace both your cleric and wizard, lagging 2 levels behind, give or take 1 for occasional exception spell. When she's not spamming a lyre. :roll:
THAUMATURGE spell list is accessible to RANGERS starting with level 4 and THIEVES starting with level 6. No bards this time, thank god.
SAGE spell list is accessible to METALSMITHS starting with level 6. Kinda too late to be useful.
NECROMANCER spell list is mostly unique (I'd suspect assassins access it, but since you can't have them out of the box, the point is moot)
 

youhomofo

Augur
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
142
So I've rolled two parties now and gotten them both beyond Aquavis. That's still basically jack shit. I'm a total newb. But I did learn a couple things.

My second party includes a Sage. What a fucking awesome class. The Sage is like a swiss army knife. He can pick locks and disarm traps. He has access to tons of useful spells which include crowd control and healing, curses, and poison. He gets tons of skill points each level (I don't know if that's thanks to RNG or if class plays a role). Also, he can start off with identify and detect secrets. Two spells every starting party should include. There are TONS of secrets in Grimoire. You should have detect secrets running constantly.

Basically, the Sage is like a thief who can also cast spells. Utility on top of utility. Whether or not he'll still be useful in the late game, who knows? But right now I'm glad I have one.

You can start with a Durendil Templar, but you need to roll a 30 to get one. I've got one in my new party. Lots of gear restrictions, which can be a bit annoying, but he seems to come with lots of innate armor. I think, assuming he doesn't get gimped later on, having access to priest spells on a fighter chassis is going to be worth the headache of gear restrictions. We'll see. So far he's not bad.

Biggest tip I can give you. Items are incredibly powerful. I've been conditioned to think of items as being shitty vendor trash. This is why you want the identify spell (which also IDs monsters). If you're stuck on a fight, take a moment to identify all your scrolls and items. Can't score hits on that boss? Use an enchanted weapon scroll. Throw some rock salts. Invoke a rod of magic missile. Fights go from impossible to easy if you make use of your items, and there are a LOT of items to be found.
 

Danthar

Novice
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
62
Biggest tip from me is if you have Saurians and Drakes in your party: unequip your starting weapon!! (Shield can remain)

Saurians and Drakes deal 3d4 damage with bites/claws/tail lash. Starting weapon for fighters deals 1d4.

If you have Rhattu and Wolfkin it might be good to do as well, they deal 2d4 unarmed.

Aeorb and Drow deal 1d6 kick/punch, rest I don't know, those are my party's races.

Do note that you will no longer level weapon skills but instead hand-to-hand, but for the start it's absolutely worth it! Especially if you're like me and didn't attribute points to skills as they grow through use anyway.
 

Giant Dwarf

Literate
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
7
I believe the naga unarmed is 2d6 and also has a chance to inflict poison (the damage value of which I don't know exactly, but it's been doing a lot for me).
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
627
Location
Seattle, WA
I don't get how the Templar works. She holds up her holy symbol, and nothing happens. I tried to buy her a Lance but she couldn't use it.

Also, I am clueless about lockpicking.

How many "points" do I have to roll as a naga to play assassin? I rolled 30, and still couldn't select the class.
 

rickralsten

Educated
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
56
Since I lost all my saves and have to restart a new party, is it worthwhile to throw the initial bonus points into HP for all characters, just so you don't have people walking around with 4 and 2 HP?
 

youhomofo

Augur
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
142
I believe the naga unarmed is 2d6 and also has a chance to inflict poison (the damage value of which I don't know exactly, but it's been doing a lot for me).

This has actually been a huge help.

I have a Naga berserker on my front lines and he's been using a two-handed axe. Big mistake. His bite attack inflicts poison. I get a lot of kills by nailing all those difficult to damage enemies with poison and letting them slowly die.

Can't use berserk, but so far whenever I have used berserk it usually just results in my Naga turning around and killing my templar. Until I raise berserk up high enough that it becomes reliable I think my Naga's just gonna keep on biting away.
 

Danthar

Novice
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
62
I believe the naga unarmed is 2d6 and also has a chance to inflict poison (the damage value of which I don't know exactly, but it's been doing a lot for me).

This has actually been a huge help.

I have a Naga berserker on my front lines and he's been using a two-handed axe. Big mistake. His bite attack inflicts poison. I get a lot of kills by nailing all those difficult to damage enemies with poison and letting them slowly die.

Can't use berserk, but so far whenever I have used berserk it usually just results in my Naga turning around and killing my templar. Until I raise berserk up high enough that it becomes reliable I think my Naga's just gonna keep on biting away.

To expand on that (I also posted this elsewhere iirc):

Naga 'Lash Coil' does not poison but it gets extra attacks more often and if it gets extra attacks it gets 2 extra attacks every time.
Vampyr 'Bite' can Curse.
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
I believe the naga unarmed is 2d6 and also has a chance to inflict poison (the damage value of which I don't know exactly, but it's been doing a lot for me).

This has actually been a huge help.

I have a Naga berserker on my front lines and he's been using a two-handed axe. Big mistake. His bite attack inflicts poison. I get a lot of kills by nailing all those difficult to damage enemies with poison and letting them slowly die.

Can't use berserk, but so far whenever I have used berserk it usually just results in my Naga turning around and killing my templar. Until I raise berserk up high enough that it becomes reliable I think my Naga's just gonna keep on biting away.

To expand on that (I also posted this elsewhere iirc):

Naga 'Lash Coil' does not poison but it gets extra attacks more often and if it gets extra attacks it gets 2 extra attacks every time.
Vampyr 'Bite' can Curse.

Anyone know if Leonar have anything special being cats with claws etc?
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,241
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
Give me a suggested starting party of 6 (Classes and Race)....

I started my own right now, but just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.
 

Danthar

Novice
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
62
Anyone know if Leonar have anything special being cats with claws etc?

Tried it, nothing special, Bite and Claw (2d4).
Battle Roar casts Dread on one enemy (it's possible the special powers increase with level or so though, may effect more enemies later).
 

Navicon

Barely Literate
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2
I created a spreadsheet that has the stats of all the race/class combinations including male and female with bonuses, assuming a perfect roll of 32.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPA-a3F5kq6FGUjWY0LiKzre_U-ykqAhSlVQRr2QeOw

The TOT column is the total stats including bonuses. The CTOT column is the total of the primary stats for the class plus the bonus (so warrior would be STR + SPE + BON). I highlighted in yellow the highest in each category. Since Durendil often have the highest stats, in cases where Durendil was the highest in a given category I highlighted in blue the next highest.

Some interesting findings including differences between male and female characters and some race/class combos have an extraordinarily high bonus modifier including a bonus of 41 for male Saurian Berzerker and 54(!) for Aeorb Sage
 
Last edited:

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
Tips -

1) Sage is not needed
2) Metalsmith is good and gets lethal blow and ancient history and can wield the super sword, and when they include crafting will be even better
3) Bards are nice
4) Be careful with race if you plan on making a hand-to-hand combatant. Some races do way more hth damage, also some classes get the iron fist and some other hth specific skill too. Drakes do good hth damage, as do giants, saurons, and that's it I think. Fairies do the worst from what I saw.
5) Do not waste bonus points on extra HP for your two top characters at chargen. Attribute points are precious and you just need to suck it up for a couple levels. Always put bonus points into attributes.
6) Make sure you keep an eye on the xp of characters so you are saving a lot before leveling up incase the game fucks you with shitty everything so you can reload until it doesn't fuck you.
7) Make sure you don't just click on a button - don't waste the skill gain from finding it, just move off the square and back again until you find it and get a skill up. Same with doors and keys. Why waste the skill up?
8) You can get a non-OP npc in the first main temple place. He is a Thief and has decentish skills in the high teens but absolute trash for attributes. He is human and has 40 in everything besides a couple 41s. I think cleve left the dev/testing npcs in as their power level is retarded. This guy I'm guessing is where they all should be.

9) Plus up speed over everything. The hard mobs need to either die or be cced before they act. Speed is the only attribute I completely trust and see function 100%. Just leave your bard 4 points below everyone else so he doesn't jump ahead during a lucky level up. Also, I set my casters to cast a low mana spell as a default action. Casters always go last and always after the enemies act. Speed does nothing for casting so for characters you want casting all the time do worry about or put points in speed. I like fairies for casters for the extra mana regen, but the eye race gets it too I think. And one other one too, vampyres?

10) I am playing a six man party with no npcs on veteran and have been able to defeat Samhain with relative easy and have no issue with any fights 99.5% of the time. The only time I need to change my defaults is when I get like three dragonflies in different groups.

11) Penetration is only a big issue at the start it seems, lethal blow is great for quickly killing guys with hp bloat like the knights. Don't build a party around the beginning of the game. Build it for the hard fights, where speed is king. My two front line guys have so much hp now they can take a hit from anything with ease, and I did not give them hps on chargen. Speed, speed, speed and skills.

That's my advice anyways.
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
Anyone know the various rough equipment types the classes use? I am guessing rangers,thieves, assasins, jesters to go medium armor and a large selection of weapons. I expect Warriors and templar to be able to use heaviest armor and maybe metalsmith? Not sure about Berserker and armor.
 

Daemongar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,706
Location
Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
Huh, i have a giant with HTH and iron fist, and he will not attack in combat.
Tips -
4) Be careful with race if you plan on making a hand-to-hand combatant. Some races do way more hth damage, also some classes get the iron fist and some other hth specific skill too. Drakes do good hth damage, as do giants, saurons, and that's it I think. Fairies do the worst from what I saw.

Help me out here. I was working to test a giant with HTH and a 70 Str. He has 5 points in HTH and nothing in his hands - no shield or weapon. Yet, he will not attack. His flag is set, he's set for fight. Any thoughts? Combat ends with him doing nothing OR it may say GIANT gets extra attack (irony) with nothing happening.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
Huh, i have a giant with HTH and iron fist, and he will not attack in combat.
Tips -
4) Be careful with race if you plan on making a hand-to-hand combatant. Some races do way more hth damage, also some classes get the iron fist and some other hth specific skill too. Drakes do good hth damage, as do giants, saurons, and that's it I think. Fairies do the worst from what I saw.

Help me out here. I was working to test a giant with HTH and a 70 Str. He has 5 points in HTH and nothing in his hands - no shield or weapon. Yet, he will not attack. His flag is set, he's set for fight. Any thoughts? Combat ends with him doing nothing OR it may say GIANT gets extra attack (irony) with nothing happening.

I don't know. I just made one to test and he wouldn't attack either. Everyone else comes up with attacks when you select fight, like punch, kick, claw, etc. I know it used to work for giants when I looked before to see the hit dice of their hth attacks. Sorry, must be bugged.

Also,I'd go with Drake because I don't think they have any item restrictions like giants do and they have good hth hd.
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
So I notice that Assassin and Jesters are allowed classes on the Necromancer Unholy Symbol. Does this mean Jester can scribe necro spells or something?
 

lorn

Educated
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
45
@YES
"Sage is not needed" with no explanation? Sage is often considered an essential class due to their immense versatility. With a statement like that, please explain why.


One tip for people, who want to use a durendil templar: The Templar only has a holy symbol to start off, which is totally useless. Also start the game with a metalsmith. This class starts the game with a 2d4 forge hammer, which can be used by the templar.
It's a decent weapon and you can quickly find something equivalent for the metalsmith. You can also give the templar the shield and the leather armor.

I'm now contemplating my third and hopefully final party.

Here is what I think currently:

Durendil Templar - amazing stats out of the gate, will have weaker equipment for a while, but compensates for that with his high HP and spellcasting ability
Giant Berserker - can get bonus points, has good attributes, some equipment limitation, option to become pirate, Saurian is probably better as a pure berserker, but pirate seems impossible for them.
Barrower Metalsmith - I just love the flavor of Metalsmith, plus has ancient history and lethal blow.
Feyfolk Bard - Highly versatile and very powerful, worked well as my lock picker
Vamphyr Necromancer - summon undead on Lvl 4 is really good. Has some serious drawbacks (high xp requirment), but also love the flavor
Drow Thaumaturge - Feyfolk might be better, but I don't want to repeat races; good offensive caster
Aeorb Sage - a metric ton of bonus points make up for their low base stats, though I am concerned; in my first two runs the sage was Drow, but from what I've seen in LPs, the aeorbs HP/Mana seem to be around the same.
Wolfin Cleric - the dedicated healer.

The cleric is the choice I'm struggling with the most. Bard and Templar get cleric spells on Lvl 3 and the all-important cure disease and cure poison is learned by the Sage on Lvl 4 as well.
So, in the early levels, I have Sage and Thaumaturge who can take care of wounds and later on the Templar and Bard can handle it. Is there really a place for the cleric?
I've been thinking about replacing it with a wolfin ranger or a naga thief, who'll later become an assassin.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Give me a suggested starting party of 6 (Classes and Race)....

I started my own right now, but just curious on other peoples thoughts on this.

After what I've seen so far, I would go with:

2x Saurian Berserkers (have Lethal Blow which Fighters don't have, also Saurians can equip all equipment while Nagas are pantless)

A Sage can play instruments, can lockpick and cast spells. The only problem might be that you don't get many points on level up to increase all those skills, though Music increases on its own fast.

I wouldn't take Vamphyr, their stats halve in daylight. Not sure if they are the only ones who can roll a Necromancer, which may be a good choice.

A Cleric is a must.

A Thaumaturge has better spell selection than Mages in my opinion. Or get a third melee character instead.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
1) Sage is not needed

It's not needed, but it's one of the better choices. Makes Bards obsolete and even thieves.

5) Do not waste bonus points on extra HP for your two top characters at chargen. Attribute points are precious and you just need to suck it up for a couple levels. Always put bonus points into attributes.

I don't think that attributes are more precious. For the two tanks, extra HP are more important. For the rest, extra skill points can be important too, especially for the ones who have lockpicking and assaying.

9) Plus up speed over everything. The hard mobs need to either die or be cced before they act. Speed is the only attribute I completely trust and see function 100%.

Beyond a certain point, you're faster than most monsters anyway. Maybe around 50 SPD in the first part. For melee characters, STR and AGI are very important, since they determine penetration.
 

osefmarcher

Literate
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
36
No i agree, extra HP is useless. Attributes are way more important.
Sage is better than bard, hand down.

For a 6 man party I did :
-Berserker
-Berserker
-Ranger
-Thief
-Sage
-Necro

A 4 man party could also be nice
-Berserker
-Ranger/Berserker
-Sage
-Necro

Fewier you are, faster you level up.
 

GandGolf

Augur
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
854
Location
Rivendell
What is the preferred class for each race? Think somebody said that for the Durendil race the preferred class is templar but what are the others?
 

Danthar

Novice
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
62
I created a spreadsheet that has the stats of all the race/class combinations including male and female with bonuses, assuming a perfect roll of 32.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gPA-a3F5kq6FGUjWY0LiKzre_U-ykqAhSlVQRr2QeOw

The TOT column is the total stats including bonuses. The CTOT column is the total of the primary stats for the class plus the bonus (so warrior would be STR + SPE + BON). I highlighted in yellow the highest in each category. Since Durendil often have the highest stats, in cases where Durendil was the highest in a given category I highlighted in blue the next highest.

Some interesting findings including differences between male and female characters and some race/class combos have an extraordinarily high bonus modifier including a bonus of 41 for male Saurian Berzerker and 54(!) for Aeorb Sage

Hero!! (I'd use those thingies at the bottom of posts but I haven't figured out how..)
 

Danthar

Novice
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
62
Huh, i have a giant with HTH and iron fist, and he will not attack in combat.
Tips -
4) Be careful with race if you plan on making a hand-to-hand combatant. Some races do way more hth damage, also some classes get the iron fist and some other hth specific skill too. Drakes do good hth damage, as do giants, saurons, and that's it I think. Fairies do the worst from what I saw.

Help me out here. I was working to test a giant with HTH and a 70 Str. He has 5 points in HTH and nothing in his hands - no shield or weapon. Yet, he will not attack. His flag is set, he's set for fight. Any thoughts? Combat ends with him doing nothing OR it may say GIANT gets extra attack (irony) with nothing happening.

Happens also with Vampyr and Bite hth attack.

Report it as bug in the dedicated sticky steam thread I guess, I did that already for Vampyr Bite.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom