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NWN Neverwinter Nights (NWN & NWN2) Modules Thread

Jack Of Owls

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I was thinking of playing Swordflight as a cleric. Cleric is my go-to NWN class when I'm intimidated by the possibility of an unusually challenging NWN module. I remember playing Kareena: Krakona Rising (supposedly a difficult module) as a cleric a few years ago and when I told the module author I didn't die once and because of that I rated it only an 8.5 on the old NWN module repository, he was not happy, telling me that 8.5 out of 10 is considered low these days. But he complimented me and said he suspected I was an unusually good player that used effective tactics. The trick is to find that perfect, balanced build and class for a veteran NWN player like myself for Swordflight. Something that will make the module not too soft, not too hard but juuuust right. Open to suggestions here. Just for the record, I found the last few areas of HotU to be BALLS-TO-THE-WALL DIFFICULT when I played it last year so maybe I'm not such a good player after all or maybe I lost my touch.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Apart from Cleric, which is OP, there aren't really that many OP classes/builds. Taking 1 level of Shadowdancer is cheesy, as well as going 39 Sorc/1 Pal. There are awful classes, though, like a Druid focused on shapeshifting. I don't particularly like Shifters, much for the same problems. I distinctly remember rogueknight333 saying that Druid/Shifter is the most difficult class/combo for Swordflight. Just go with whatever you most want tbh, NWN is unusually well-balanced, I don't think you'll find a build as grotesquely overpowered as Kensai/Mage, Berserker/Mage, Thief/Mage etc. like you can in the IE games, even with a Cleric.

Yeah, Cleric will make everything easier, someone has to make a module specifically to challenge Clerics for them not to feel slightly OP. It also depends on how many Cleric levels you pick up, they start gaining the real power at around the 4th circle with spells like Freedom and Divine Power, but their buffs and debuffs are pretty good even before that. Bane + Doom + Bless + Aid + Prayer + Battletide + Divine Power + War Domain + Strength Domain is pretty scary. There's no reason not to pick up a lot of Cleric levels if you are going this route, though. So, yeah, my advice would be to pick something you feel like playing. If you think Cleric will be too easy, pick something else.

I vaguely remember the most powerful melee build in NWN2 included a Cleric as well, something like Cleric/Bard/Dragon Disciple/Stormlord.
 
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hell bovine

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A cleric will do just fine in Swordflight. I'd recommend the trickery domain for improved invisibility, though it's not a must (my cleric had healing and animal, because I played a goody-two-shoes follower of Lurue :lol:).
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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I recommend the plant domain, no matter what, because it gives you bark skin, i.e. easy access to natural AC while freeing the amulett slot for amulett of wisdom, then as the second domain either magic (mage armor, ice storm, stoneskin) or trickery (invisibility spells).
For SF2 having stone skin will help a lot, for SF3 improved invis would be better.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Just completed everything in the Forest of Mir (Swordflight), a few observations for the forest itself (not the fortress, the fortress is fine) and a strange occurrence (slight spoilers) -

1. The unmarked paths that just say "Exit here" are a bit confusing and the layout becomes labyrinthine. On purpose?
2. Some maps are tiny, but offer quests and interesting encounters, the others are huge, but offer little in the way of content. I think it would've been better had the tiny maps been fused with the big ones. I also think there should've been an item which gives perma-Expeditious Retreat on one of the bosses in the fortress, so going back through the forest isn't as tedious. This item could disintegrate upon returning to the village.
3. I loved stumbling upon our favorite lich, Zagash's, lair. It makes the companions feel like a part of the world and exist outside your party. It felt anti-climatic after clearing it, though. Not even a boss at the end, tsk, tsk. Unless you count the aranea Evoker, but I wouldn't.
4. It might've been my fault for not remembering something from so long ago, but there is a map near the fortress which is full of satyrs and nymphs who are planning to attack the fortress. It's very easy to find them after the fortress, which is exactly what I did, but can't tell them the fortress is cleared. What is their purpose at all? They tried to attack me, but I talked them down. Is it because I'm a half-orc and they think I'm with the goblins? Their dialogue hinted as such.
5. Some mini-bosses just blend in with all the other mobs and it's not clear you are fighting a boss until after you loot them or unless you are perceptive enough to notice they have unique names. By unique names I mean they are "Hobgoblin Chieftain" or "Chief", which you might just glance over. Intended?
6. Is there a reward for saving the soldiers apart from 15 xp a pop? They are incredibly difficult to save and I only managed to save 1 group, they just die way too easily.
7. The reward from the village at the end seems silly, if logical because they are poor villagers. It would've been much more surprising/exciting if we didn't have access to Heal potions before that and it's our first one.
8. The dialogue between Chelys and Zagash was interesting, I hope it foreshadows something.

The strange occurrence, probably not tied to Swordflight at all, is a weird one. I've removed the visible cloaks because they are mostly ugly and obscure my character. However, when I have Chelys equip a cloak she loses her wings. Bug? Unintended side-effect from removing the visible cloaks? I like her wings.
 
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Jack Of Owls

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There are awful classes, though, like a Druid focused on shapeshifting. I don't particularly like Shifters, much for the same problems. I distinctly remember rogueknight333 saying that Druid/Shifter is the most difficult class/combo for Swordflight.

Actually, I considered a Shifter for Swordflight. The most fun I ever had with an NWN module (and I've played hundreds) was as a Druid/Shifter in Saleron's Gambit. And, oddly enough, it was one of the most overpowered - if not the most overpowered - builds I ever played in an NWN module in the final battle. I morphed into an acid drake and obliterated the end-game boss in 3 small huffs n puffs of my acid breath. He didn't get to lay a sword on me, the poor thing. That was a little disappointing since I never like an easy battle.
 

Inf0mercial

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There are awful classes, though, like a Druid focused on shapeshifting. I don't particularly like Shifters, much for the same problems. I distinctly remember rogueknight333 saying that Druid/Shifter is the most difficult class/combo for Swordflight.

Actually, I considered a Shifter for Swordflight. The most fun I ever had with an NWN module (and I've played hundreds) was as a Druid/Shifter in Saleron's Gambit. And, oddly enough, it was one of the most overpowered - if not the most overpowered - builds I ever played in an NWN module in the final battle. I morphed into an acid drake and obliterated the end-game boss in 3 small huffs n puffs of my acid breath. He didn't get to lay a sword on me, the poor thing. That was a little disappointing since I never like an easy battle.


When did you make the change to shifter? I can't seem to find a good level to stop and swap over and my builds for it stall out or is it one of those level half and half things?
 

rogueknight333

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"... NWN is unusually well-balanced..."

Yes, relatively true, and one of the things I like about the game, since it is disappointingly rare. In NWN it is actually kind of/sort of possible to make modules balanced for most reasonable classes, if you are not too perfectionist about it. I do not think I could do that in NWN2, for one example. In that game Clerics are even more insanely OP, among many other balance issues.

I don't think I will pay Sworflight...

It can be rather intimidating, and even the strongest classes and players can go down quickly if they get careless, but I have included some "safety valve" features that should make it possible to complete even for someone who is not a master of combat tactics. I think one of the reasons people struggle with it is because they tend not to take advantage of features like the Respawn system (and in Ch. 2+ you can choose an easier setting giving you more Respawns for a lower penalty) or Rest Runes, due to the modest XP penalties. I have found that many players have an irrational fear of losing experience that is out of all proportion to its actual value, especially in a module with farming opportunities that can be used as needed.

Just completed everything in the Forest of Mir (Swordflight), a few observations for the forest itself (not the fortress, the fortress is fine) and a strange occurrence ...

1. Not specifically intended so much as it was hard to avoid and I was not especially interested in avoiding it.

2. I think some of this at least was because I was trying to put non-hostile creatures in separate ares from those with hostile encounters to avoid the two running into each other and creating various complications. It might have been a good idea to put a fast travel option back to the village from the fortress, but due to the non-linear layout you can clear the fortress before clearing some other areas, and I think I wanted to discourage players from leaving quickly without exploring everything.

4. The Satyrs are mainly there as an opportunity to use conversational skills if you have them. Encountering them will probably not end peacefully if you do not.

5. See answer to 1, above.

6. Only reward is the minimal XP, and the satisfaction of seeing live soldiers about the village later. It is indeed hard to save them so maybe it should be more rewarding, but for the same reason I also did not want to make saving them too important.

7. I think I intended it to be a little humorous - these poor villagers think that something that is a dime a dozen for a typical adventurer is a great reward. Of course, the real reward for the quest is all the loot you take off the bodies of your enemies.

Equipping cloaks causes wings to become invisible. Some players actually like that effect, since they think the wings on RDDs look silly, and that is usually the only context in which it is relevant. Presumably making cloaks invisible does not alter this feature of cloaks, whether by accident or design.

Actually, I considered a Shifter for Swordflight. The most fun I ever had with an NWN module (and I've played hundreds) was as a Druid/Shifter in Saleron's Gambit. And, oddly enough, it was one of the most overpowered - if not the most overpowered - builds I ever played in an NWN module in the final battle.

That is because Saleron's Gambit was a very low magic module series. The trouble with Shifters is that it is very hard to balance a module for them without unbalancing it for every other class. If the magic level is too high, players will have access to gear providing greater powers than the Shifter forms, making those forms redundant and useless. If it is too low, Shifter forms will be overpowered (e.g., a form with Damage Reduction in a module with no or only very low-level weapon enhancements). It is certainly possible to play Swordflight with a Shifter, and since the series is not extremely high magic there could be even worse environments for them. Also, like every class they do have special advantages (e.g., any needed elemental immunity) in particular situations. However, based on my own playtesting it is one of the hardest classes, if not the hardest, to play there. Of course part of that might be due to the fact that I do not play the class that often and thus am not too expert with it.
 

Jason Liang

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Shifter 1 for the baby dragon forms is already pretty useful. Probably best to wait until after Druid 7, when you get Stoneskin, or Druid 9, when you get Owl's Insight.

Shifter is a complicated build for a couple of reasons. First, unlike druid wildshape, some of your forms (especially the best ones) come with weapons so Monk isn't actually such a good fit. I think it's best to take a Fighter or other class with full BAB progression (such as Weapon Master or Dwarven Defender) for the 3rd class. For non epic levels, you'll want either:
a) Druid 8/ Shifter 8/ Warrior 4 (fastest to Epic Shifter for Epic Shifter form feats, best choice for CoT Dragonshape)
b) Druid 12/ Shifter 4/ Warrior 4 (gets to cast Heal and Owl's Insight)
c) Druid 8/ Shifter 4/ Warrior 8 (you get the bonus BAB, and a good choice for CoT since you'll get to take Greater Wisdom as one of your bonus feats)

You'll also want to commit your build around maximizing specific forms, such as Risen Lord, Rakasha, Kobold Comando, Mind Flayer, Medusa, Drow Warrior or Ancient Dragon form.

Unlike Wildshape, most of your Shifter forms have one or two physical attributes that don't get overridden, so you shouldn't automatically dump physical stats like you would with a normal Druid.

For example I usually roll a halfling Druid Shifter. Note that your race will get overridden when shifting, so it only matters when you are in your Druid (spellcasting) form and for feat prerequisites. So I would boost Dex to 16, dump strength and con. For Greater wildshape 2 I usually use Minotaur/ Epic Minotaur.

So you generally have either a DEX-based halfling shifter, or a CON-based dwarf shifter (with Dwarven Defender as the tertiary class)


Note that Gargoyle is tricky, since the lower level Gargoyle uses your Strength score, but the Epic level Gargoyle uses your Con score.

Make sure you read the Shifter FAQ.
 
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Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, as far as I've noticed you have to construct your entire build around one Shifter form, which kinda ruins the idea of being a Shifter. Your gear doesn't matter, so like rogueknight333 pointed out they are at their strongest in low-magic worlds. This means losing your bonus spell slots from +WIS items, creating a need to micromanage your spellbook every time you rest, filling the slots you are going to lose with buffs you are going to immediately cast etc. Getting to the Shifter level you want is tricky. 8 Druid/8 Shifter is a lot, especially for a module like Swordflight. It's a slow burner in the best cases. Completely janky and almost unplayable at its worst. I played a Druid/Shifter/Monk through the Aielund saga because it isn't that difficult a mod and I found the class very lacking, I wished I did something else. I suppose if you know all the intricacies of the forms you could conceivably plan an interesting build, but I won't be trying that any time soon.
 
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Inf0mercial

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Ok i got my Palemaster to work idk i think i just forgot i literally have 30 bags full of crap and i juggled my spell slots, also you know its time to take a break from never winter when you have a save check of 35 you have a to roll bonus of 26 and you roll three ones in a row.

Yeah ok i'm going to go drink and play a less aggravating game.

Rust monsters rust studded leather Armour is that on purpose?
 

rogueknight333

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... Rust monsters rust studded leather Armour is that on purpose?

Yes, they are intended to be able to wreck armor consisting of metal studs attached to leather, it is only standard leather or lower armor types that are immune. Sorry if the information about their powers did not make that clear.
 

Jack Of Owls

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When I see a rust monster in any NWN module, my companions and I run like Hell. No other D&D monster instills terror in me as much as these bad boys. Still remembering the time I encountered a rust monster in a dungeon in the early levels of some module by the author of Blackwall Keep that literally left me buck naked as I limped back to town and promptly got arrested for indecent public exposure :lol: :hahano:
 

Inf0mercial

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... Rust monsters rust studded leather Armour is that on purpose?

Yes, they are intended to be able to wreck armor consisting of metal studs attached to leather, it is only standard leather or lower armor types that are immune. Sorry if the information about their powers did not make that clear.

Na its fine i was just thinking that Studded leather was more leather than metal so thought it was safe, it doesn't matter Pale masters have enough trash summons to tank and i had a bow. Skeleton Chief lost his sword but was doing just as much if not more damage with his fists which was amusing.
 

Jason Liang

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I find Druid/ Shifter/ Monk very underwhelming as well. Monk is already a difficult class. The only build I like with monk is halfling Monk/ Blackguard, for the Cleave feat and shuriken proficiency. Both halfling Monk/ Blackguard/ Wizard and Monk/ Blackguard/ Sorcerer are strong Monk builds.

Many shifter forms merge weapons, armor and helm, so you do get the benefit from magical equipment. This is another reason why it's better to pick a warrior class for the 3rd class, to pick up Martial Weapon and/ or Heavy Armor proficiency.

Druid is my favorite NWN base class (and a great class for halflings), and having tried many multiclass combinations, I find rogue to be the most useful. Rogue is reasonably front-ended, not feat-intensive, and sneak attack is a passive ability which complements druid just fine. Uncanny Dodge is a crucial defensive feat, which monk does not get. Druid/ bard is fun but you really want to take bard up to 15+ and bard is very feat-intensive (and skill point intensive too). Casting 6+ buffs before each fight also gets tiresome. Monk is not so good since you are committing a class mostly to improve your wildshape, which is a questionable choice.

If you want 2 spell books, druid/ rogue/ wizard is fantastic. Druid 16/ Rogue 2/ Wizard 2, and if you make it to level 40 you can end at Druid 20/ Rogue 3/ Wizard 17 which is pretty sweet. If you wait until epic levels before picking up a 3rd class and don't mind losing out on UMD, Druid 18/ Wizard 17/ Harper Scout 5 is also good.
 
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Lacrymas

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You make me want to try another Shifter build. Druid is also a must-play class for me in a lot of RPGs and that's why I was disappointed in Druid/Shifter/Monk. An evil halfling Shifter focused on Risen Lord sounds right up my alley.
 

hell bovine

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Most of the time I don't bother with builds and play a pure class, but my favourite trickster was a gnomish wizard/ranger/assassin. Gnomes are immune to the tentacle field spell... :P (though sadly that spell got depowered at some point)
 

Jack Of Owls

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="Inf0mercial, post: 5245384, member: 17809"]

When did you make the change to shifter? I can't seem to find a good level to stop and swap over and my builds for it stall out or is it one of those level half and half things?

Sorry, I missed this the first time I was catching up on replies. To answer your question I can only respond by saying that I can't answer your question. It's literally been years since I played as a Shifter in Saleron's Gambit. But I see others here have what seems like good advice for playing Shifters so I defer to them. I've always felt that the best NWN modules were the best or most satisfying experiences one could have playing cRPGs, outside of possibly the original Fallout (Fallout 2 was boring). Still feel that way.

I can offer you a tip though: always be sure to turn on sky boxes and play with a camera height that lets you see them. They can be quite beautiful, as in Saleron's Gambit.
 

Nerevar

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Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
Up to a part on Swordflight CH2 where a enemy uses Bigby's and IGMS while having acid sheath, really impressed this is what players do in PvP.

Looks like running in and hacking up everything isn't a good strategy here, I can see why people are suggesting Cleric SR would be good here.
 

Jack Of Owls

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I liked playing a Shifter because I enjoyed morphing into stuff, like a minotaur with a labrys that was bigger than he was or a dragon with 4 different kinds of very bad breath, and fucking shit up. There was always that enjoyable goal of planning your build and getting it closer & closer to dragonshape or something. The only NWN class I never played to completion was monk, I think. Monks seemed boring and too vulnerable until they got their God-punches on.
 

Nerevar

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Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
Monks seemed boring and too vulnerable until they got their God-punches on.

Kama monk strong through the whole game also take a few splashes into a full AB class for insane attacks.
 

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