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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
Is detection in this game bugged? With PE 10 combined with Paranoia and tracking goggles my detection is 300+. Sneaky fucks still always have a jump on me. I can understand that with crawlers maybe with their troll attack, but even lowlife punks in random locations have godly stealth ability.
You need to be in stealth yourself to spot them first and it's heavily affected by the direction you and the enemy are facing. With high detection you can usually spot enemies before they spot you, but just a few seconds earlier.


Within the same context i'l repeat my question about PE. Is it worth to rise it above 10 or maybe better invest in AG or END or smth?
It's worth it for the bonus precision and damage, not so much for detection.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Is detection in this game bugged? With PE 10 combined with Paranoia and tracking goggles my detection is 300+. Sneaky fucks still always have a jump on me. I can understand that with crawlers maybe with their troll attack, but even lowlife punks in random locations have godly stealth ability.
Within the same context i'l repeat my question about PE. Is it worth to rise it above 10 or maybe better invest in AG or END or smth?

You can use flares to stop them, works well regardless of your detection or throwing skill. "Stealth wars" are pretty random unless you significantly outstat your enemies, best to avoid frustration.

Is there any recent SMG build? Couldn't find anything in the build thread or here, mostly looking to use grenades and burst, would like some advice - have some dilemmas since I never used bullets before:
  • Rapid fire/point shot? Guessing their value skyrockets with a powerful smart module.
  • DEX vs PER - guessing I'd want 12 AP SMG after reductions for 2x burst, or 11 AP for 3x burst with AS. Unsure how to weigh this considering different weapon frames and attachments, and reloading.
  • Gun nut seems bad?
  • Full auto worth it? Napkin tells me it beats 4 PER both with and without muzzle break for burst damage, so thinking yes, gives access to AR and SR
I can't say much about SMG builds because I never made a dedicated one (only used them as a sidearm for snipers, prefer pistols now because Gunslinger gives +7 initiative) but:
  • They are less useful for SMGs than ARs because Spec Ops allows you to squeeze more bursts and leaves you with less leftover AP. Rapid Fire + Point shot are 200% AP for 4 shots, SMG burst with Spec Ops are 200% AP for 7/9. You could take one or the other if your SMG of choice leaves you with 50% or 150% AP require to shoot, but it doesn't seem essential.
  • DEX has diminishing returns, so it's best to find a sweet spot where you get the most bang for the buck, rest into PER.
  • It's totally not worth it to get 7 INT just to pick it. You could take it if you want 7 INT for other feats.
  • I never did the exact math, but I don't think it's worth it. It might give you more damage than 4 PER, but keep in mind 4 PER means a lot more precision. That said again I never did the math so I dunno.

Well, those are the questions I have, that's why I asked. Guess I'l figure it out as I go. Gonna go with high PER, seems safer since it raises hit% and I didn't really explore that system.

Tactical vests are good because they make you outright immune to 90% of enemy gun wielders, even 2k energy shields will get drained in one or two rounds of sustained fire. Shields save you from getting one shot by snipers and grenades or electrified.
Unless it's a crafted anti-rifle vest, it won't make you immune. It might make you near-immune to SMGs and low damage pistols and take a big chunk out of high damage pistols/ARs.

I could see tactical vest + shield being a good choice for taking Fort Apogee since it's just dozens of firearm users but other that, you are never under so much fire that shield is not sufficient. They are very good until you actually get a shield or if you don't put points in electronics, too.

Yeah, I meant crafted, though it's possible to luck out and get one from the shop as early as Junkyard. A grenade that hits you directly will likely drain your shield, snipe can do it too, important to toggle on/off correctly.
I agree that tactical vests are somewhat niche (from an optimisation perspective, compared to leather/metal) , but as e.g. PSI you don't have much choice since you want that beetle shell and riot gear req. STR/flat out sucks (though it did get buffed, maybe good enough now?), so you're kinda forced to explore them.
Problem with melee/crossbows is that they usually hit you with debilitating effects, their damage is far less of a problem compared to their CC against which effective HP isn't much help.
That's correct, but bonus HP helps you survive being under those effects. Bonus HP is also one of the very few ways to protect yourself from thought control and such. It's good against everything, not just melee.

How high did you get your infused pig leather quality? I remember trying out pig stuff but best I got was 140ish infused pig leather vs. 190ish ancient rathound leather, so even with better bonuses it wasn't worth it. Bugged me a lot, when cool effects get outdone by raw stats.

Interesting thoughts on nimble with a "light" metal armor character, uniquely benefits since he can't really use black cloth gear.
The lightest metal armor possible has 29% penalty, with nimble it's only 14%, that's almost nothing. I was actually thinking about a build using it but the 8 STR requirement and the fact that it's only available later in the game make it hard to synergise with most builds. Sounds perfect for sledgehammers though.

Yeah, I have a sledgehammer build where I planned to go max armor penalty (flavour), might switch it around.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
How high did you get your infused pig leather quality? I remember trying out pig stuff but best I got was 140ish infused pig leather vs. 190ish ancient rathound leather, so even with better bonuses it wasn't worth it. Bugged me a lot, when cool effects get outdone by raw stats.
Last time playing I lucked out and got a 159 quality super steel, made 162 infused pig leather out of it.

As an example, a 162 quality infused pig leather armor with 110 quality padding has 46%/11 DR/DT, adds 106 HP on top of +1 CON and increases DR/DT by 28% against melee attacks (so 59%/14). All of this at only 20% penalty, measly 5% with Nimble.
I would still prefer lower quality infused pig leather over high quality infused ancient rathound leather just because of the huge HP bonus, it's more universal. I also like to pick persuasion so the penalty hurts a little bit, especially with 3 WIL.
 

hilfazer

Scholar
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
224
Pig leather crafted with Skinner:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....618/118680541B325A206006414B4C11F962D394E39B/
Padding and overcoat are from DC but leather quality can be obtained before. I also had pig boots with 10% mech resist. This armor was marvelous for my 3 CON glass cannon. But even with weaker padding you can reach 95% resist vs knives and fists (with those boots).

Tip for players who are ok with some grinding/save scamming: Quality of skins is rolled when creatures spawn. Creatures spawn when you enter a location (i don't remember if autosave can be used). With this knowledge i managed to farm pig skin with quality of 63.
 
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Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
You can use flares to stop them, works well regardless of your detection or throwing skill. "Stealth wars" are pretty random unless you significantly outstat your enemies, best to avoid frustration.
Tried flares to contain crawlers, did fuck all and throwing them left and right any time while walking around lower underrail seems like a chore. I still don't get what ''detect'' stat is for, if not for detecting stealthy fucks (and secrets, of course). With it being above 300 it should at least guarantee that you can't be ambushed from point blank range by melee character, otherwise it can be regarded as bugged.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
I'm not replaying no matter how tempted I am until the expansion. I want to know how the shotgunner works with my other gun builds. PLUS I want to see the new melee weapons.

Game is great.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
You can use flares to stop them, works well regardless of your detection or throwing skill. "Stealth wars" are pretty random unless you significantly outstat your enemies, best to avoid frustration.
Tried flares to contain crawlers, did fuck all and throwing them left and right any time while walking around lower underrail seems like a chore. I still don't get what ''detect'' stat is for, if not for detecting stealthy fucks (and secrets, of course). With it being above 300 it should at least guarantee that you can't be ambushed from point blank range by melee character, otherwise it can be regarded as bugged.

What level are you?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
300 detection should be more than enough to easily spot most stealthed enemies if you are in stealth yourself. Sometimes it's even enough to spot them even if you are not in stealth yourself but obviously that's less reliable.

https://webmshare.com/bQ3qz
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
You can use flares to stop them, works well regardless of your detection or throwing skill. "Stealth wars" are pretty random unless you significantly outstat your enemies, best to avoid frustration.
Tried flares to contain crawlers, did fuck all and throwing them left and right any time while walking around lower underrail seems like a chore. I still don't get what ''detect'' stat is for, if not for detecting stealthy fucks (and secrets, of course). With it being above 300 it should at least guarantee that you can't be ambushed from point blank range by melee character, otherwise it can be regarded as bugged.

Hmm, if it's specifically crawlers hurting you, you can try getting a few http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bullhead. This makes them stop their attack pattern (unlike antidotes) and you can gun them down.

Detection doesn't do anything for discoverable objects(not traps) FYI, that's strictly PER.

Something seems fishy here though, since I remember seeing crawlers with sub-200 detection, let alone 300.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
With crawlers i just let them bite me with low frequency shield on and antidotes in pocket so they gather around then i move em down. Sometimes i even let the poison do it's work as it seems faster way to get all the crawlers in one place. They don't do that much damage now. Not that big of a problem, but still annoying.
My base detection is 162, but with 87% tracking goggles it's little above 300 and yeah, lunatic murderers and shit still ambushed me easily. Don't have high stealth though. I don't put any points in it. Have 81 only from apparel. I wouldn't care that much about it if it wasn't for goddamn hunters with crossbows, who, if given initiative and succeed their shot with debilitating bolt, it's instadeath mostly, especially if someone else is around too.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,278
Well, here's a neat crawler/gaunt trick, if you have low armor penalty and sprint, or a ton of movement points from whatever, you can just GTFO and they won't be able to track you down before you recover from the stun, at least most of the time, it's very useful if you're low on antidotes.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Did just that several times at the beginning, when antidotes were scarce. Not every area allow that though and i just got bored with this.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
My God. Collecting part to open Gate... A fucking gazzilion of them. Shit. Fuck it, done.
LoadLevel*9000 to Gate. Repair. Click on Electronic Lock. "NO POWER"
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
LoadLevel*9000 to PowerStation. Power it on.
LoadLevel*9000 to Gate. "There is biomass covering the gate. Cant open"
HA HA FUCK YOU ALT F4

And I am running at x4 speed with CheatEngine. Its inconceivable to me how one could tolerate this garbage without a massive speedup. I barely do with. And this is my second attempt at trying to finsih this shit.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
I don't know what you expected, it's pretty clear you have to get rid of the biomass to open the gate, Six tells you as much.

Have you visited the Mushroom Forest already?

Its inconceivable to me how one could tolerate this garbage without a massive speedup.
By having a longer attention span I guess. If you think it's bad now you'd probably kill yourself at release.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
You are a fanboy. I ignore your opinion. How and why does one grind for 170q infused pig skin?

I played it at release, stopped exhausted when I barely reached Core City. Right now I skipped all Protectorate content and Foundry and all the nameless pointless trash combat around the rails. This larping simulator wastes time that could be used for greater things like watching people crawl!

All loot in this game is shit and there is mountains of identical trash in there. And All of it is crafting garbage. Complete items are borderline worthless compared to crafted items.
How many 70q low freq shield components do I need? Why is a Maradeur 762 rifle in a 130 points hacking box?!

Quicksaved before restoring the IRIS AI, reload cause not enough hacking, use 2 hoarded levels to get to 130. What do I get? Pointless dialogue? Greate. Go outside, Quicksave. An hour later: ?OH NOES? Picked "Doctor" Feat at level up and wasted 35 points on some random trash skill to get through the level up faster.........................................................

A U T I S M
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
I don't know what you expected, it's pretty clear you have to get rid of the biomass to open the gate, Six tells you as much.

Have you visited the Mushroom Forest already?

Its inconceivable to me how one could tolerate this garbage without a massive speedup.
By having a longer attention span I guess. If you think it's bad now you'd probably kill yourself at release.

DC is utter garbage if you don't have stealth. Absolute chore, you crawl around like a monkey killing respawns just to one shot the eye.

My God. Collecting part to open Gate... A fucking gazzilion of them. Shit. Fuck it, done.
LoadLevel*9000 to Gate. Repair. Click on Electronic Lock. "NO POWER"
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
LoadLevel*9000 to PowerStation. Power it on.
LoadLevel*9000 to Gate. "There is biomass covering the gate. Cant open"
HA HA FUCK YOU ALT F4

And I am running at x4 speed with CheatEngine. Its inconceivable to me how one could tolerate this garbage without a massive speedup. I barely do with. And this is my second attempt at trying to finsih this shit.

They patched out like half the respawns, it used to be way worse. Underrail benefitted massively from RPG's low completion rates or it's reviews would have tanked.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
You are a fanboy. I ignore your opinion. How and why does one grind for 170q infused pig skin?
Never did that. Work on your reading comprehension.

All loot in this game is shit and there is mountains of identical trash in there. And All of it is crafting garbage. Complete items are borderline worthless compared to crafted items.
Crafting items are obviously better, otherwise there would be no point to bother with crafting. Some unique weapons and armors still beat anything you can craft, some are equal or only negligibly to high quality crafts.

Quicksaved before restoring the IRIS AI, reload cause not enough hacking, use 2 hoarded levels to get to 130. What do I get? Pointless dialogue? Greate. Go outside, Quicksave. An hour later: ?OH NOES? Picked "Doctor" Feat at level up and wasted 35 points on some random trash skill to get through the level up faster.........................................................
It really must suck to have such a short attention span that you deem dialogue "pointless" and choose feats and skills at random. Maybe RPGs are not your cup of tea?

Anyways I gave you a pointer, up to you what you do with it.

DC is utter garbage if you don't have stealth. Absolute chore, you crawl around like a monkey killing respawns just to one shot the eye.
You're actually making it more of a chore with stealth. Getting Echoing Soliloquy and hiding in a hatch for a few seconds is a lot faster. You don't have to kill a single -ling during the entire game if you do that, you might not even see them until the final fight.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
DC is utter garbage if you don't have stealth. Absolute chore, you crawl around like a monkey killing respawns just to one shot the eye.
You're actually making it more of a chore with stealth. Getting Echoing Soliloquy and hiding in a hatch for a few seconds is a lot faster. You don't have to kill a single -ling during the entire game if you do that, you might not even see them until the final fight.

Sure, when you've been through it once and know where to go. Stumbling upon Leo when you've freshly arrived in DC? Good luck.

There is also the resapwning mushroom forest, labyrinth, respawning burrowers, respawning faceless, respawning robots, respawning coil spiders. If you bee line through everything it's not too bad, the initial discovery is an absolute slogfest without stealth.

It's not about diffculty, it's that you're dropped in a cool area you want to explore and learn about, but you get bombarded by shit, stealth gives you peace and quiet.
 
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Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
I just found out that night vision gives a massive tohit boost. Thanks Gnid...

Greate gayme. Snipe Tcho for 1200 dmg, Aimed Shot gave him the rest. The fuckers who tried to take my cube away were a harder fight. They also gave me all the w2c ammo that killed them :lol:

Greate Loot in Tanners Room! Amirite?! 135 Hacking! 140q plasma core! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

Maybe RPGs are not your cup of tea?
They mosdef arent. I hate larping.
You know, like, pretending that a 256q infused super ancient pig leather matters one bit.
At what level could one beat this game if there wasnt a restriction on SP upgrades per level? 5?

Crafting items are obviously better,
Thats why you are a fanboy. Thats not what Im saying. There are some melee uniques that look decent. But the amount of similar, pointless loot and money makes all loot into garbage. Crafting garbage.

resapwning mushroom forest, labyrinth
That must be insane without stealth.

Also this Cooldown to Tcho Rape is typical larper design. It literally wastes time. You have to duck into magically safe hatches to waste time... Incredible.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
When the expansion comes out, Ill put zero points into hacking and lockpicking for a general game speedup...
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
So I managed to get back to it this week, and unfortunately have hit a bit of fatigue with the game.

The crafting system has gazumped me a bit. I've invested a fair few points into it, bought a fair few blueprints, and yet I still haven't crafted anything useful. I'm also getting a tad dragged down by the backtracking for side-quests, but most annoying is the fact that the end of all quests - so far - have seen little in the way of any real change/reward/story depth (e.g. I've just told the Eels head about Blaine's way to attack the Scrappers, and essentially got "cheers, now get us some help").

Still enjoying it, expect things to change slightly when I progress the main quest more, but have definitely reached a point where it's starting to feel the work-reward balance is tipping out of favour slightly.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
The quests are window dressing for '''exploration'''
Walking and killing through countless "Abandoned Facility XY" should be reward enough, pleb. Better loot can be bought from traders anyway.

I still haven't crafted anything useful
?RETARDED?

Spoilers

Because I started skipping that shit in Junkyard already, I never found the alien spaceship and the quests tied to it and NPCs. And I dont care since I killed everyone in the Core City Mansion anyway.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
The quests are window dressing for '''exploration'''
Walking and killing through countless "Abandoned Facility XY" should be reward enough, pleb. Better loot can be bought from traders anyway.

I still haven't crafted anything useful
?RETARDED?

Spoilers

Because I started skipping that shit in Junkyard already, I never found the alien spaceship and the quests tied to it and NPCs. And I dont care since I killed everyone in the Core City Mansion anyway.

Definitely wish I'd not invested any points in crafting. My own fault really, crafting has never been my thing, but thought it'd be worth trying out.

And, even though the exploration side of things is still quality, it'd just be nice to have a bit more depth outside of that. I think it's the pacing that feels off with it mainly. No sooner are you back from a mission, than your back out on another. It'd be nice if now & again you could soak in the concequences of that mission more.

Still early days yet though. Will keep playing and see how it progresses. Still enjoying it, it's just wearing me down a bit now so will have a breather.
 

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