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"DRPG" Stranger of Sword City

Hirato

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That's what Fast Apply is for!
You can also just the button and it should rapidly jump through everything.
 

mogwaimon

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Got a bit of a newb question here, started playing this game after making a flaccid first attempt at Wizardry 1 (I've not that much experience with blobbers) and so far I'm enjoying it a bit. Just got a quick question, like....I made my main character a Samurai because samurai are bad-ass and I'm a weeb. I've been balancing his stats between STR and AGI, but notice that the Samurai seems to have an insta-kill crit mechanic, would I benefit greatly by pumping a bit into LCK or does AGI also manage critical hit chance?

For anyone wondering how the Wiz 1 run went I spent a half hour trying to figure out how to name my characters only to find out the Tavern folk are pre-gens and you have to go to the Training Grounds to create actual characters, which I did, and then sent them into the dungeon after spending another half hour trying to figure out how to trade equipment between characters, and then I did some forays into the dungeon and beat up slimes. Then I had a hell of a time figuring out how to get my spells back, which I did. Then I got overconfident and went further than two steps into the dungeon with no map (SNES version, might try PSX version next time because I'm not incline enough to bust out graphing paper and I hear that has auto-map_ and immediately got my party destroyed by a pack of roving Kobolds. Fun times but I figured maybe I needed to go a little more casual before dipping my toes into the original series again.

Also yes I own Gothic (Bought mostly because of aweigh's passion for the game while lurking some months back and it was only 10 bucks) but I kinda want to play a Wizardry first because Gothic has a lot of callbacks to earlier Wiz games that I don't want to miss out on. Weird, I know.
 

Emmanuel2

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LCK or does AGI

AGI and LCK doesn't benefit crit chance IIRC. The critical is a weapon implicit and it just happens that all katanas have critical attributes.

I might be wrong though since it's been a year+ since I've last played but I recall building AGI only for negating dual wielding penalties or ranged damage and LCK as a dump stat.
 

Hirato

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I think Luck does affect your proc chance.
You want to get Agility up to 25 first though, so your off-hand katana does full damage.
 

mogwaimon

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Cool, thanks. I'll focus on AGI for the time being then. I'm hanging out in the Mausoleum of Forest doing ambushes for gear and hunting for that first Lineage thing there. Do you eventually get more than one bonus point per level or is it always 1, because I haven't gotten very many high rolls for the beginning stats (I try for between 5 and 6 for non-Fortunate characters, 8-10 for characters with Fortunate)
 

Delterius

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The maximum stats are just 20 over your racial minimum, though initial Bonus Points can go above that. You can max a primary stat like AGI or STR in short order.
 

mogwaimon

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The maximum stats are just 20 over your racial minimum, though initial Bonus Points can go above that. You can max a primary stat like AGI or STR in short order.

Cool, thanks. I've been balancing AGI and STR on the samurai thus far so he's got like 14 STR and 15 AGI, he's still top DD on my team for the simple fact that he can instakill and has that row-attacking Slash move, really helps out.

Would have helped out just now when I went to fight the Rockwell bird thing and it kills my samurai right before it dies, leaving the rest of my party (The knight and fighter have acc problems as it is, ranger is pretty good though) to fight a succession of Ravens going all the way up to Q, which both took a while and made my samurai miss out on nearly 10k EXP. Bah, at least he gets a free revive because he's a main character, but still. Can't wait to get taunt on my knight so he can be a proper tank.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Luck is really good on a Samurai to increase status effect chance affliction (plus defence vs status effects). Of course it's even better on a Ninja, as it also affects hide chance. Actually the best characters for me were Samurai/Ninja multiclasses. Samurai gets Slash row attacks, while Ninja can use Claw/Fist weapons (multi-attack, maximum number of status affliction attempts, fists often have the best status: knockout/stun) and excels at single target damage/boss killing. Plus Ninja gets Evade bonuses, and that's the Samurai's only defence when performing the Frontal/Backside hit trades.
 

mogwaimon

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Luck is really good on a Samurai to increase status effect chance affliction (plus defence vs status effects). Of course it's even better on a Ninja, as it also affects hide chance. Actually the best characters for me were Samurai/Ninja multiclasses. Samurai gets Slash row attacks, while Ninja can use Claw/Fist weapons (multi-attack, maximum number of status affliction attempts, fists often have the best status: knockout/stun) and excels at single target damage/boss killing. Plus Ninja gets Evade bonuses, and that's the Samurai's only defence when performing the Frontal/Backside hit trades.

Do you find that Ninja works alright from the back row? I decided to restart my game since I wasn't too far into it and I found out that Age doesn't lead to character death like I'd heard for other Wizclones and I had all my characters as 18 year olds so they wouldn't keel over on me. My party before was Samurai, Knight, Fighter, Ranger, Wizard, Cleric (Though originally the Fighter was a Ninja, the ninja kept getting hospitalized so my backup fighter ended up outstripping him) and I'm going with a similar composition for the new party. I've only really decided on the multiclass for my wizard and cleric (Wizard > cleric and vice versa) but I was thinking of doing a ranger > ninja so I could have a back row ninja with throwing items. Perhaps I'll multi-class my main character Samurai as Ninja for those Evade bonuses at the least.

Still have no idea what to do with my Knight and Fighter, though. I guess I could class-change the Fighter into a Knight later on for extra survivability and then for the Knight class-change into Cleric for a bit to get healing spells?
 

Delterius

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Do you find that Ninja works alright from the back row?
Very much so. I have a Dancer (14) > Ninja (15) > Ranger (one day 30) that works pretty well. Nowhere near as well as the Samurai or the Wizard, but she's also a good support.

When it comes to planning your characters, you'll want to consider what their 'final classes' will be (unless you want to change classes at level 30 three times or so). If you want a Samurai, you'll be best served by someone who started off as another class, picked some utility skill and would finally stick being Samurai class. Its best to start as Fighter, pick armor proficiencies and Indomitable Heart and then switch to Samurai or Knight for either offensive or defensive power.
 

mogwaimon

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Do you find that Ninja works alright from the back row?
Very much so. I have a Dancer (14) > Ninja (15) > Ranger (one day 30) that works pretty well. Nowhere near as well as the Samurai or the Wizard, but she's also a good support.

When it comes to planning your characters, you'll want to consider what their 'final classes' will be (unless you want to change classes at level 30 three times or so). If you want a Samurai, you'll be best served by someone who started off as another class, picked some utility skill and would finally stick being Samurai class. Its best to start as Fighter, pick armor proficiencies and Indomitable Heart and then switch to Samurai or Knight for either offensive or defensive power.

Oh god please don't tell me that, I'd have to start a new game again. Which isn't really that bad because I haven't gone out as the first party yet, but I'll have to spend forever re-rolling again, took forever to get a roll of 20 on the MC. Then again grinding out levels back to 30+ would likely take a longer time than re-rolling...But I did find that having the Samurai's slash ability early on helped out quite a bit with clearing trash mobs. I did take final class into account with the mages and the ranger > ninja but I sort of neglected my front line because I didn't really have a big plan for them. Was more concerned with getting the cleric's mana regen abilities onto my wizard and getting some of the support spells of wizard (Slow) on the cleric.

Eh, I think I'll roll with it this time. I've got five class changes to work with so I guess it's not so bad. Thanks, man
 

Efe

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cant you just go to base and reroll new characters? you dont have to change MC or all of the characters.
fill out those extra slots as they gain you money and gain steady xp while at base.
 

Delterius

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Oh god please don't tell me that, I'd have to start a new game again.
Well, I'm talking about optmization here. All this means is that you can either A) Not give a fuck (my MC ain't changing until level 30 I can tell you that) or B) build this character to be a late game Knight or Fighter and use the Samurai's perks to support it (dualwielding and such). Just make sure to change at least on level 13 to get the skill point.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Back row Ninja? If he's also a level 6 Dancer, then sure. Otherwise I think it would be wasted potential. Of course, he could still protect other members with his evasion ability, but... he could be an offensive powerhouse otherwise.

I think you're too obsessed with multiclassing by the way. That would require excessive grinding.. and be a sub-par choice before reaching late game and high level final classes.
Get what you think you need/want initially, then focus on each character's main class. A level 20 character will be immensly stronger then a level 14/14 one. Hell, the game even scales damage dealt/received basing on CURRENT class level. Not too mention Hit accuracy, defensive bonuses, as well as SpE spell/ability/status affliction power. A level 30 Wizard will be FAR better then a level 13 Cleric/20 Wizard. And vice versa.

Sure my Samurai 13/Dancer 6/Ninja 20 had more options then my Samurai 13 / Ninja 26... but the latter was much stronger. I can really recommend multiclassing Samura and Ninja. Both classes greatly benefit from high Agility and Luck. And Samurai with high Luck and Fist weapons with 6+ attacks per hand just dominates the battlefield knocking out most regular enemies with his Slash attacks. Of course Fighter also gets Claw proficiency, but there is far less stat synergy.
 

mogwaimon

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cant you just go to base and reroll new characters? you dont have to change MC or all of the characters.
fill out those extra slots as they gain you money and gain steady xp while at base.

I can but not with the MC, who I had built somewhat poorly and couldn't reroll. I've been filling the slots for the extra cash too, been needing it for the early game.

Oh god please don't tell me that, I'd have to start a new game again.
Well, I'm talking about optmization here. All this means is that you can either A) Not give a fuck (my MC ain't changing until level 30 I can tell you that) or B) build this character to be a late game Knight or Fighter and use the Samurai's perks to support it (dualwielding and such). Just make sure to change at least on level 13 to get the skill point.

True, I try to min/max a bit but it's by no means an obsession. So far I've steamrolled everything back up to Mausoleum of Forests with my new party, only the MC keeps dying on occasion. He doesn't have much Avoid despite his 25 AGI so I'm guessing part of it is because he's human, since he's wearing light armor and my Ney Fighter has much higher Avoid with a much lower AGI. I'm hoping the heavier armors lose their -hit penalties or I get some sort of accessories to mitigate that later on.

Now I've got to get some decent gear and kill the Lineage Types I'd taken out in my last file.

Back row Ninja? If he's also a level 6 Dancer, then sure. Otherwise I think it would be wasted potential. Of course, he could still protect other members with his evasion ability, but... he could be an offensive powerhouse otherwise.

I think you're too obsessed with multiclassing by the way. That would require excessive grinding.. and be a sub-par choice before reaching late game and high level final classes.
Get what you think you need/want initially, then focus on each character's main class. A level 20 character will be immensly stronger then a level 14/14 one. Hell, the game even scales damage dealt/received basing on CURRENT class level. Not too mention Hit accuracy, defensive bonuses, as well as SpE spell/ability/status affliction power. A level 30 Wizard will be FAR better then a level 13 Cleric/20 Wizard. And vice versa.

Sure my Samurai 13/Dancer 6/Ninja 20 had more options then my Samurai 13 / Ninja 26... but the latter was much stronger. I can really recommend multiclassing Samura and Ninja. Both classes greatly benefit from high Agility and Luck. And Samurai with high Luck and Fist weapons with 6+ attacks per hand just dominates the battlefield knocking out most regular enemies with his Slash attacks. Of course Fighter also gets Claw proficiency, but there is far less stat synergy.

Well, maybe I could forgo the Ninja, I just wanted to multiclass it with Ranger to fit in with the custom portrait I made for that party slot, and my front line was already full with Sam/Kni/Fighter so I was wondering about the viability of the class on the back row.

I was mostly concerned about multi-classing because of my mages, since Cleric gets native MP regen so it has more staying power, but I find my cleric sitting on its ass waiting to heal or tossing an occasional buff more often than not while my wizard blows through all her mana but has nothing to regain it with. I realize Cleric later gets Mana Exchange but that means risking my healer being down. So I'll probably just multi-class those two characters and the Samurai since SAM/NIN seems to be highly recommended here.

Not fond of the overly sensitive level scaling mechanics either, makes it a lot tougher to fight under-leveled.
 

Delterius

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Well, I'm still at level 21 with the characters I didn't change. They keep their attributes after all. As long as HP and MP aren't the issue my other characters remained viable straight after changing classes. Take it one, two or at most three characters at a time and it can be natural evolution of the story. As opposed to a sudden grindfest that is even worse than average.
 

mogwaimon

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Oh yea I definitely wouldn't do it all at once, I learned that lesson loooong ago with RPGs that had less complex mechanics but still featured class change systems
 

Dorarnae

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Back row Ninja? If he's also a level 6 Dancer, then sure. Otherwise I think it would be wasted potential. Of course, he could still protect other members with his evasion ability, but... he could be an offensive powerhouse otherwise.

I think you're too obsessed with multiclassing by the way. That would require excessive grinding.. and be a sub-par choice before reaching late game and high level final classes.
Get what you think you need/want initially, then focus on each character's main class. A level 20 character will be immensly stronger then a level 14/14 one. Hell, the game even scales damage dealt/received basing on CURRENT class level. Not too mention Hit accuracy, defensive bonuses, as well as SpE spell/ability/status affliction power. A level 30 Wizard will be FAR better then a level 13 Cleric/20 Wizard. And vice versa.

Sure my Samurai 13/Dancer 6/Ninja 20 had more options then my Samurai 13 / Ninja 26... but the latter was much stronger. I can really recommend multiclassing Samura and Ninja. Both classes greatly benefit from high Agility and Luck. And Samurai with high Luck and Fist weapons with 6+ attacks per hand just dominates the battlefield knocking out most regular enemies with his Slash attacks. Of course Fighter also gets Claw proficiency, but there is far less stat synergy.

if it's the original version of the game, it always depend. at one point you can farm butterfly so farming isn't much of a problem.
 

Hirato

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The only thing that staggered my class changes were the fact that some of my characters kept dyring so they were behind in levels, and that all the classes didn't cap out at level 30.
I don't remember, but I think the final classes change for my 4 attackers was Ninja; Hide is really good, and the bulk of the abilities I wanted to use came from that class, so it made sense (extra avoid, insta kill chance, etc).
My Cleric and Wizard went back to their initial classes at the end, and most of the time they just spammed Holy Shield during combat, which was more than enough to pretty much block all incoming damage, and they'd triple-cast empowered multi-avoid/multi-hit early on too so quickly get that score up.

As for the MC I made
l7UFqqj.jpg


Dancer was for the weapon trick thing you learn early on, and ALL my characters went into cleric for Holy Soul (or whatever it was called) that gives you total immunity to ALL status effects, including insta-death (fighter was just for another damage focused class so I could get another skill slot).

And farming isn't hard when you find the butterfly ambush points, the 3 I know of:
1. Mausoleum of Fire: The safest of the bunch by far
2. Mausoleum of Sea: Near the bottom, slight disadvantage from lack of healing or buffs - Assassinate is great for this since Hide gives you a nice +Hit bonus.
3. Mausoleum of Ice: Huge disadvantage from lack of skills, bring weapons that can knock enemies unconscious if you want to deal actual damage.

Also don't forget to use the Wizard's Force-Bell (or whatever it was called) to raise the levels by about 5, since each level translates into about 500xp per nest (iirc red is a but less, gold is more)
 

mogwaimon

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Whaaaat how did I not know Carnage Front on Samurai was so good? I used it for the first time when fighting the gold bird for its liver and because of buffs my samurai did like ten counters in a row to it. Made the fight really trivial. I'm almost completely back up to par with my original file, just haven't gone to Valley of the Ruined yet and killed the hunter or triggered the next story event.

What are these butterflies? Are they like metal slimes from DQ or something?
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Well, even with the butterflies, I've found grinding tedious. But I have little tolerance for that activity.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I was mostly concerned about multi-classing because of my mages, since Cleric gets native MP regen so it has more staying power, but I find my cleric sitting on its ass waiting to heal or tossing an occasional buff more often than not while my wizard blows through all her mana but has nothing to regain it with. I realize Cleric later gets Mana Exchange but that means risking my healer being down. So I'll probably just multi-class those two characters and the Samurai since SAM/NIN seems to be highly recommended here.

Not fond of the overly sensitive level scaling mechanics either, makes it a lot tougher to fight under-leveled.

I realize that is the common motivation. Absolutely NOT worth it, IMO. Like you noticed, Cleric gets Mana Exchange and can fill the Wizard up (although that is deceptive, the wizard will have a much higher MP pool total , so he will get mana from cleric only once he's actually very low). In a pinch, there are also MP pots. Mana Regeneration is based on Piety and the first Mana Heal I is actually very weak. Mana Heal I is absolutely not worth it. Mana Heal II is much better, but then the grind to reach it becomes serious business.

Only for hardcore grinders IMO, along with the Cleric status effect immunity ability. Very neat, but absolutely not necessary. Particularly considering that you can spam Spirit Wall for the same, party wide, effect. Sure, it costs Morale.... but you should put it to good use anyway, right? And with a high Piety/Luck Dancer Morale is an endless resource.

For me, it's much more important to get the high level caster abilities and spells faster, as they are actually what makes or breaks these classes. Master casting (x3) the top level Tri-elemental spell is like casting 9 regular spells in one round. Cleric needs the Mana Heal II ASAP and his healing spells better be full heals, preferably party-wide. And you want the mage weapon-temper spell and Cleric armor-strengthening one ASAP. They are a HUGE boost to damage/survivability and what you spend the most MP on eventually.
Again, a Cleric 15 / Wizard 25 will be much weaker then a straight Wizard 30.

Guess a case can be made for teaching the Cleric Wizard dual-cast ability. 3-cast is too much work IMO. And possibly teaching the Wizard the Cleric Multi-Hit/Evade spells. Though with a good tank, the Cleric high level armor strengthening spell, Light/Dark Veil, Ninjas who can ignore enemy defenses and high level Samurais with high Agi and Hit, even those are absolutely not needed.

At least for the normal game. I admittedly haven't finished the post game. I hear some of those portal elemental realm bosses can be quite strong. But for what I did play, I used Hit/Evade very sparsely in end-game and early post-game. Certainly you don't need several pre-buff turns and Hit/Avoid at 99 to beat any regular content. But then it's important to be high level in your main-class, so your party member's Hit, SpE, Evade and Armor are naturally high, without pre-buffing.
 

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