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Wizardry 6--When to change classes?

Not-A-Newfag

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So in anticipation of Grimwah's d̶e̶l̶a̶y̶ release, I started playing Wiz6.

I want to do lots of class changes, but this shit is new to me. At what level should I start changing my classes? I started out with a bunch of priests and mages and a bard. Immediately class changed my priests and mages into hybrids. Now I've got a level 5 Valk, for example. What level should I change my valk's class? Should I jump into something like thief or ninja just to pick up ninjitsu and then leave the class as soon as I get a point in hiding? Should I switch my valk to samurai and my samurai to valks at around level 5?

What methods do you guys generally use?
 

Grampy_Bone

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My party progression looked like this:

Fighter -> Ninja -> Lord
Fighter -> Ninja -> Samurai
Fighter -> Ninja -> Monk
Priest -> Lord -> Valkyrie
Priest -> Mage -> Bishop
Bard -> Samurai -> Bard

I did all my class changes in the dark area in the dwarf mines, there is a fountain there which heals SP. All my changes were around level 7 or 8.

There is another good spot to grind near a fountain at the Isle of the dead, you can get up to levels 9-12 there. But you have to go a long time without class changes to get there, I wanted my team to have good spells and critical hit skills before that. It ended up being a bummer having no Ninjitsu on my Bishop and Valkryie, so I remedied that during Wiz 7 after importing them.

FYI you may have better luck posting this in the Wizardry series thread.
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
To my mind, people tend to overthink the class switching process in Wiz6.

There is no need for grinding if you are not minmaxing. Around level 10 (plus minus) should be a good point, just keep in mind to not switch them all at once. Really, don't obsess over it, just go with the flow. You'll get a feel for it, when a character stops advancing at around level 10 you'll just be like 'ah, now is a good point' or you'll keep a character around for maybe one more level cause you just switched two others or whatever. Also, the change to what class is really determined to where are good synergies and to what you wanna end up with and both of that will kinda explain itself while you keep playing.
 
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megidolaon

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I don't think I changed classes until I was around the Styx area of the game, where battles became a bit trickier and I needed more options and more varied firepower. Most significantly I changed usually one, at most two, characters at a time so they'd all eventually have healing and AC spells which was my priority.
 

octavius

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Start as spell casters and change to prestige classes ASAP (except you need one Bard).
That way you get max mana rec and high character level (used in every combat calculation) in the endgame.
Unlike Wiz 7, lack of skill points is not a problem in Wiz 6.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
For me the answer will be when I can... I'm currently playing this with 2 fighters, 1 priest, 1 bard, and 2 mages. I was thinking of doing the following:

Fighter -> Lord or Samurai
Fighter -> Valkyrie
Priest -> Mage
Bard -> Ninja
Mage -> Priest
Mage -> Mage

I didn't have the greatest stats when I generated my characters, so now I'm thinking they will never switch classes. I did change one fighter to a valkyrie, but none of my other characters have gotten close to switching. In fact, my other fighter seems to have had his INT lowered a few times during level-ups, so he's even further from being a samurai then when he started. Luckily the game's save ability makes this the easiest Wizardry I've ever played, so maybe I'll be fine with the classes I have all the way to the end.
 

Not-A-Newfag

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Arrrgh... I'm getting serious fatigue from this game. I really want to get through it and do the full trilogy, but Jesus Christ I'm so bored with castle walls. I always prided myself in not judging a game by its graphics, but I don't know if I can get through VI. Should I consider jumping into VII? Maybe importing my party before reaching end game?

Right now I'm at the mountain with the bridge. I don't know how much more I have left in me.
 

Daemongar

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Arrrgh... I'm getting serious fatigue from this game. I really want to get through it and do the full trilogy, but Jesus Christ I'm so bored with castle walls. I always prided myself in not judging a game by its graphics, but I don't know if I can get through VI. Should I consider jumping into VII? Maybe importing my party before reaching end game?

Right now I'm at the mountain with the bridge. I don't know how much more I have left in me.
You are not alone. Yes, everyone will tell you that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are the greatest Wizardries, but tell you what: play 7 if you want to. You can always go back and play 6 later. I never finished 6, but played 7 and 8. My bucket list includes taking a party from 6 to 8, but hey, I don't have to. I played 7 as my first Wizardry, and grew to appreciate the series that way. Just, do what you have to do. Start with 7, and it will give you that itch to find out what happened in 6. Wizardry 8 is great, really great, regardless of what people whine about. Just if you can, start with 7. It really is an amazing game.
 

mondblut

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I want to do lots of class changes, but this shit is new to me. At what level should I start changing my classes?

As often as possible until everybody is capable of everything :obviously:

5 level is good enough. Remember, each level costs much more xp, so by the time you get to level 6, you'd otherwise go from level 1 to 5 in a new class for 4x as much advances. If you have a fairy thief-bard (female?), you can change her at will whenever she gets level 2.

Vaguely remember some indepth explanation of the system according to which it is best to reach higher levels you haven't been at yet as fighting (ie hp-heavy) classes, because you don't get any notable hp increase when you reach a level you already reached before. So, start as mages for mana, switch to melee for initial developments, then keep switching to mages (or whatevs) and back but don't go beyond levels that you have already reached unless on a melee class again.
 

pippin

Guest
Do it around level 8 but not after level 12. This is where the xp reqs often reach the same number of xp you already have (like you have 300.000xp and need the same ammount to reach the next level). At this point combat is easily giving you 1000s of xp points after each fight so you'll end up getting at least two or three levels after a handful of fights, and then your elite classes will start getting spells again.

Many people reccomend Bard-Ninja but I don't like it that much. I suggest Bard-> Samurai, and make it a felpurr for maximum kickass, and also because you can start practicing hide with him (and I believe ninjitsu too), while keeping mage spells (which could arguably make a dedicated mage unnecessary?). Make a (female) faerie alch which later will be a ninja. It will be tough, but at least I won't judge you if you use the roll thingy from the Cosmic Forge editor.

Taking a Lord and a Valk seems too redundant imo. Also if you're making a Lord out of one of your fighters, I'd even say to start without a Priest to spice things up. The alchemist has nice healing spells after all. I don't see much praise for psionics in general but they have Heal Wounds too and can become Monks, a very cool class for Wizardry 7.
 

pippin

Guest
You're almost to the Pyramid of Boobs!

Now that you mention it I can't remember a female enemy that is not topless in this game. And the Queen is a dominatrix who fucks snakes and has her own male harem. And you guys wonder why they love Wizardry so much in Japan.
 

Viata

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If by the end of Wiz6 your party didn't change classes to the point of everyone being capable of everything, you did something wrong.
 
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Not-A-Newfag

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I want to do lots of class changes, but this shit is new to me. At what level should I start changing my classes?

As often as possible until everybody is capable of everything :obviously:

5 level is good enough. Remember, each level costs much more xp, so by the time you get to level 6, you'd otherwise go from level 1 to 5 in a new class for 4x as much advances. If you have a fairy thief-bard (female?), you can change her at will whenever she gets level 2.

Vaguely remember some indepth explanation of the system according to which it is best to reach higher levels you haven't been at yet as fighting (ie hp-heavy) classes, because you don't get any notable hp increase when you reach a level you already reached before. So, start as mages for mana, switch to melee for initial developments, then keep switching to mages (or whatevs) and back but don't go beyond levels that you have already reached unless on a melee class again.

You seem to know the shit out of this game. I actually followed your advice in other threads, so I've been working on moving all my characters around to pick up skillz.

So here's a question. What about losing access to magic spell unlocks? Like, say I have a Samurai and I'm picking up all dem mage spells. Is it worth staying in that class longer to unlock certain specific spells? Or should I go to like level 5-7, then switch to Valk and start grabbing dem priest spells? I keep worrying that I'm going to fuck myself over and lose access to good shit I'll want to cast later on.

I'm using the fuck out of guides to get through Wiz6 because I want to start 7 and just go in on my own. No outside help. Figure if I can get the hang of 6 I probably won't fuck myself over in 7 like I did years ago fighting some boss in the depths of Orkogre and then ragequitting when I realized my party was absolute ass.
 

Grampy_Bone

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I would say focus on a single spell list for each character, unless you're going to have a bishop. Hybrids will spend more time fighting than casting spells so trying to give them 3-4 schools with level 7 spells in each is way more trouble than it's worth. Unless you really like grinding and want game-breaking ubercharacters. Then everyone will get kicked to level 5 after you import into Wiz 7 anyway.

*edit* There's another trick with multiclassing involving miss chance. There is a hidden mechanic which determines accuracy, it goes up every level based on class. Fighters get more than mages, while I believe Samurai get the best. When you multiclass your miss chance doesn't go up until you reach the same level where you changed your class before. This can be abused by multi classing repeatedly at a low level.

For example:

-Take a samurai to level 5, gain five miss chance increases
-Change to fighter
-Level 1-4, no increases, at fighter 5, get another miss chance increase
-Change back to samurai
-Level 1-4, no increases, at level 5, get another miss chance increase
-repeat as desired

This can be done easily when you are able to reach level 5 in just a few battles, but you need to make sure you keep getting the stats for the class changes. In the end you have a character who will never miss with weapon attacks. It's REALLY overkill though, only recommended for the most insane min-maxers.
 
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Not-A-Newfag

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I would say focus on a single spell list for each character, unless you're going to have a bishop. Hybrids will spend more time fighting than casting spells so trying to give them 3-4 schools with level 7 spells in each is way more trouble than it's worth, unless you really like grinding and want game-breaking ubercharacters.

I started out with a couple Valks/Lords and a couple Samurai, with the goal being to crossover around level 7 so they have okay access to the starting school and late game access to the other. At the Dwarven mines now, and I'm definitely relying heavily on spells above melee. At least when I'm not too far from a good fountain to replenish at.
 

Covenant

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Arrrgh... I'm getting serious fatigue from this game. I really want to get through it and do the full trilogy, but Jesus Christ I'm so bored with castle walls. I always prided myself in not judging a game by its graphics, but I don't know if I can get through VI. Should I consider jumping into VII? Maybe importing my party before reaching end game?

Right now I'm at the mountain with the bridge. I don't know how much more I have left in me.

That's the dwarven mine area, right? I found that the worst part of the game. It definitely picks up after you get down to the River Styx.

Also wouldn't advise over-doing it with class-changing; if you're already struggling with fatigue, it's just going to increase the problem. Particularly because at lower levels your resistance to spells/status effects is much lower. Just make sure to class-change any 'normal' professions like Fighter, etc, at least once by the end of the game.
 

mondblut

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So here's a question. What about losing access to magic spell unlocks? Like, say I have a Samurai and I'm picking up all dem mage spells. Is it worth staying in that class longer to unlock certain specific spells? Or should I go to like level 5-7, then switch to Valk and start grabbing dem priest spells? I keep worrying that I'm going to fuck myself over and lose access to good shit I'll want to cast later on.

You can always return back to the class to learn what you missed, this is not Wizards & Warriors. In fact, as a plain mage you'll get these spells much sooner than as a samurai. The only thing to be concerned with is getting all those stats back to reach prestige classes.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
So just an update. I'm playing Wizardry 6 and have gotten to the point of seeing the Amazon women flee from my group across some water in the dungeon. So I'm still in the first few levels of the dungeon but I feel I'm hitting my stride. Around character levels 5 through 7, my team finally was able to qualify for retraining. I noted that you start right back to level 1 with 0 experience points, and your stats all reset, but keeping your initial hit points and skill points is pretty huge. It takes me only 2-3 hours of grinding before my characters are back up to level 5, so doing so doesn't hurt all that much. And the gains are huge since you get more HPs and Skill Points per level up. Here's my party progression so far:

Traveler: Fighter for six levels -> changed to Priest for five levels-> Back to Fighter and now level 2: My bloated hit point tank. I hated changing him to priest, because he was my powerhouse and I lost his huge Strength and Vitality scores, but I was switching my Priest to a Fighter anyway. Now he's a fighter with high skills in sword and mace, and some poor ability in Priest spells. He really sucked as a priest. I'll likely keep him a fighter until he can become a Samurai, or Lord if he can't seem to make it to Samurai.

Tea: Fighter for two levels -> changed to Valkyrie for six levels-> Back to Fighter and now level 6: My best fighter with a sword and has solid skills as a caster of priest magic. I'll keep her as a Fighter until she can become a Valkyrie again, then keep her there. She currently wields the party's one good weapon, a Sword of Striking, and wears the party's one magical piece of armor.

Natasha: Priest for six levels- changed to fighter now at level six: This character started my whole character profession swapping. She was an excellent priest, but had poor ability score and hit point progression as she levelled and kept getting herself killed in critical fights. So I had her swap professions with my main fighter, and it worked out amazingly well. Now she's still my best healer, but also is a decent fighter that I don't have to worry so much about anymore. I'm likely going to make her another Valkyrie.

Danae: Bard for six levels -> changed to thief for five levels -> now bard with four levels: She was invaluable to me at the game's start due to her sleep ability, but now that my mages are able to cast fireballl and iceball, I no longer need to depend on her for crowd control. So she was my most important character and is quickly being surpassed unless there's a trap to disarm. I haven't found anymore instruments and I'm ready to convert her to something else. The swapping professions helped me out with her hit points, but nowhere in her progression did she approach the ability scores of a ninja or monk. I may bite the bullet and just swap her into a third mage.

Jen: Mage for seven levels-> changed to mage for two levels: She's behind the other swappers, but she didn't have ability scores making her eligible to change until level 7. Her enhanced fireballs were awesome, though, and kept the party viable when weakened from all the other career resets. I'll probably keep her as a priest for a few more levels before deciding whether to stay until becoming a bishop, or changing back to mage. Was my best magic-user.

Kitt: Mage for five levels-> changed to priest for five levels -> now mage again at level four: She can back-up the party well with priest spells, but she is back as a mage now. I'll likely keep her there until I make her a bishop. She's beginning to get as good as Jen once was, and is now the character I depend upon for crowd control via enhanced fireballs.
 

Darth Roxor

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You're almost to the Pyramid of Boobs!

Now that you mention it I can't remember a female enemy that is not topless in this game. And the Queen is a dominatrix who fucks snakes and has her own male harem. And you guys wonder why they love Wizardry so much in Japan.

Dark elves. It's the only one, I believe.
 

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