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KickStarter DEMIURGOS: Path of the Leviathan, an alternative history adventure RPG

Daniel Bill

DemiurgExMachina
Developer
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
58
Location
Frankfurt/Main, Germany
Lol @ those reddit comments. "RPGCodex is typically considered extremely elitist and as a result unreliable". Unreliable compared to who? Mainstream media lololol?
I was confused, too. I'll answer you later this evening!

I tried to look at their kickstarter videos but they won't load
The Kickstarter videos are on Youtube, this must be a problem with your browser I suppose?

I did notice one of the tiers was called libertarian, and that got me moist.
Yeah, that was propably one of our best ideas hehe
Thanks for your support!
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
Patron
Vatnik
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An oasis of love and friendship.
Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
I was able to see the videos, I think my internet was broke for a second.. I just backed at 20 euro level... backer #179

how do I give my 3 faction points? lol
 

Daniel Bill

DemiurgExMachina
Developer
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
58
Location
Frankfurt/Main, Germany
I was able to see the videos, I think my internet was broke for a second.. I just backed at 20 euro level... backer #179

how do I give my 3 faction points? lol
Saw it! Thanks a lot!
Normally I would send you a mail via Kickstarter, but since I know who you want to vote for (socialists obviously, jk), your vote will be included in the next vote update - later this evening/night (central european time).
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
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An oasis of love and friendship.
Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
It's pretty disappointing how the campaign is turning out tbh. Why aren't people more interested in this? Are we truly in the Age of Decline where people can't recognize what is good?

same reason why is there no news post on the front page about the kickstarter (yes I know there is an interview now but ppl are going to see an interview with someone they dont know and not read it)

because it's not a fantasy-trope filled rtwp darling
 

CyberWhale

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
6,058
Location
Fortress of Solitude
It's pretty disappointing how the campaign is turning out tbh. Why aren't people more interested in this? Are we truly in the Age of Decline where people can't recognize what is good?

I think the graphics are the problem. It's obvious there are quite a lot of things going on from a technical standpoint (shadows and lighting most notably) but the game simply looks unappealing. Something flatter (and more isometric, this is almost top-down) and overall cleaner looking would probably spark more attention amongst wider audiences.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Why limit yourself to socialism, liberalism and imperialism?

An interesting aspect of Greek city states was that wealth was not their main focus (not that it was not important as an individual pursuit. But it was not the most prestigious one). Athens was mostly about culture, politics, and Sparta could afford to have an egalitarian economic system because its focus was on glory and warfare.

it could be nice to have modernized takes on these "ideologies" that would change from the usual economically centered ones we had (to some extent, fascism was such an ideology).
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I think the aesthetic is great, especially the gloominess is right up my alley. I'm probably not the only one to think this, so 180 backers seem suspiciously low just for the graphics. And even then, there are more than 180 "old-school" RPG fans who won't mind the graphics at all. Project Resurgence, the most boring and trivial concept ever, got 200k for minor things, nowhere near the amount shown by Demiurgos. It's disheartening because quality ideas and concepts like these get swept aside for Fantasy "RPG" No 473274828. I'm pretty frustrated by this. I'm wondering whether people thought that this isn't a serious project because of such a low money goal, I won't be surprised if this is the case.
 
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vota DC

Augur
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
2,258
Backed the game (they say I am backer 183 on site and backer 186 in mail confirmation) since I am a History teacher. It is funny because in Italy many teachers just teach what they like so they jump from Ancient Rome to WW1, there are many students that believe that tanks are just chariots.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think the aesthetic is great, especially the gloominess is right up my alley. I'm probably not the only one to think this, so 180 backers seem suspiciously low just for the graphics. And even then, there are more than 180 "old-school" RPG fans who won't mind the graphics at all. Project Resurgence, the most boring and trivial concept ever, got 200k for minor things, nowhere near the amount shown by Demiurgos. It's disheartening because quality ideas and concepts like these get swept aside for Fantasy "RPG" No 473274828. I'm pretty frustrated by this. I'm wondering whether people thought that this isn't a serious project because of such a low money goal, I won't be surprised if this is the case.

There's no mystery here man, people just don't know about it. It turns out that insular hardcore RPG communities aren't the best at spreading the word about something.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/546845775/demiurgos-path-of-the-leviathan/posts/1955680

Update VIII: Theoretical Background & Vote the Truth Update

In this update we would like to talk about two of the books that had a great influence on DEMIURGOS: Path of the Leviathan and that have been a source of inspiration for us.

The historic Persian wars are meant to be authentically interpreted in the game, and the first book that we will present is by far the most important account of these events.

c939c5bc4aa4dd78907e22e28974bd58_original.png

Herodot: Histories
Histories (greek ἱστορίαι historíai “explorations“) by Herodot is the only known preserved work of the greek author who is often labeled father of history, for he was one of the first individuals who aspired to pass on history objectively and scientifically. His monumental creation spans nine books and was written in the fifth century BC. It offers an overview of the years 700-479 BC; roughly 220 years. Beginning with the ancient oriental great empires Lydia, Babylon and Egypt and ranging to the origin of occidental culture in Ion, the text gives witness to the genesis of the Greek states and the Persian empire and culminates in the Greek-Persian battles of the Persian wars.

In our game we use Herodots „Histories“ as basis for our new interpretation of historic correlations. Many of the events described are to be integrated authentically into our own timeline. Demagogues and military leaders, ideologies and political systems, systems of thought and views of the world – all of these were as relevant and contemporary in the long 19. Century as they were in the time that this work was created in. It offers a rich palette of ideas and stories – actually too much to include in just one game.

cbcba74e9b4422dcbc6ff7ecf253714d_original.png

Gustave Le Bon: Psychology of the Masses
Psychology of the masses is the main work, of Gustave Le Bon, a Frenchman widely recognized as being the founder of mass-psychology. Mass-psychology is a domain of social psychology and studies the behavior of groups of peoples. Le Bon represents bourgeois-elite conservatism which rejects any hope of cultural, social and political advancement based on the commencing “era of the masses”. The masses, empirically viewed, are entirely stripped of reason. Even the educated, the individual that is able to act reasonable, is guided by unconscious and baser instincts from the moment he becomes part of a crowd. Every forming mass of people is a growing gathering of opportunists. Masses level the collective intellectual capabilities to the lowest standard.

"In the masses, the dumb, uneducated and envious lose their feeling of nullity and impotence which is replaced by a perception of, although impermanent, raw and immense power."

Gustav Le Bon also foresaw our current government debt crisis. He assumed that politicians – driven by the opportunistic masses – would not be able to make larger decisions conflicting with the acute demands of the general public, for example potentially necessary cutbacks in certain areas of the budget. At the same time government spending increases for political reasons: to obtain new groups of voters.

"The uninterrupted growth of said spending inevitably leads to bankruptcy. Many states of Europe; Portugal, Greece, Spain and Turkey, have reached this status – others will follow soon. But this is not really something one has to mind much, for the public has, without much objection, slowly but surely accepted the cut of four fifths of all payments from the assorted countries….and in a time of general decline one has to be satisfied with living for the moment, without thinking of tomorrow – a tomorrow that we cannot influence."

PS: SOCIALISM ON THE RISE
016e00e1cc0973a1ca4e775795724b48_original.png
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
3,018
Location
SERPGIA
Ok, things are currently standing terribly. This has got to be one of the worst scenarios I was afraid this Kickstarter could be in only few days before end.

According to Kicktraq it has about 33h before end and in last 2 days it got whooping 70$ and 79$ respectively. Currently sitting at 46% and less than 4,000$. Such a huge gap of 54% has never been smaller, a bit above measly 4 grands is all that separates this from success. If only one, high profile person gave it a shout out, this could make it.

Has there been any success in shilling across different imageboards and forums? I tried but without much progress. Could we form a couple of shilling brigades?

Hey, what if... All the media and butthurt libtards are currently putting spotlight on Cleve and Grimoire, right? What if he, just as Trump managed to do, used media whores' attention and all the eyeballs he's got at him and gave a game a shout out? Some of you who are good with him, could ask him and point towards this thread. Only on steam forums alone, bunch of screeching cunts would back the game in order to vote socialist and spite Cleve. Little would they know that at least once these useful idiots would be useful for something good.

Bringing more Incline into this world...
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, sure, if even one even medium-profile person, or even streamer, gave it a shout out it would be trivial to get 4k euro. However, didn't Josh Sawyer and Warren Spector give a shout out? Also Joe and Hannah from Whalenought?
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
3,018
Location
SERPGIA
Yeah, sure, if even one even medium-profile person, or even streamer, gave it a shout out it would be trivial to get 4k euro. However, didn't Josh Sawyer and Warren Spector give a shout out? Also Joe and Hannah from Whalenought?

Yeah, but as a part of low traction tweet or Kickstarter update. Cleve currently has MUCH more attention and spotlight on him.

For example, everyone, both fans and enemies, can't wait for his next Steam update or comment. Imagine their rage when instead of fixes they got a mention about this and soon it would be followed by curiousity and in the end, many would back it.

At least I hope so...
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
At the end of the day, like many other indie projects, they can function on the fruits of love if they really want to make it. Sure, it will be slower, but I'm sure it will garner a lot more attention once it's complete and available on Steam and GOG. If AoD and UnderRail can sell so many copies, Demiurgos can, too, as long as it doesn't turn into an encyclopedia of philosophy or an academic course on the history of philosophy, but has artistic/poetic sense, at least not-awful gameplay and an actual plot.
 
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fireoak

Educated
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
31
Location
Down under
Daniel Bill

Of those options, I think the best is to polish it a bit and then do another Kickstarter. Kickstarter is really all about the first impression, both in terms of the marketing material (e.g. the video) and the funding cycle. If a project fails to raise a significant proportion of the goal in the first couple of days, it's a big turn-off for potential investors - e.g. "it seems like this won't make it", or "no-one else seems to care, why should I?". This is particularly true for media coverage, as some other people pointed out at the time. Imo this seems like a very solid project which could be funded, even in the current Kickstarter downturn, but it just needs a little more polish (particularly visual), and a more to-the-point marketing campaign. One good thing about doing a second Kickstarter is you already have access to an audience upfront - e.g. if you send off an email blast to all previous backers, it might be possible to get a big day-one investment. Another thing to leverage is all the endorsements by famous devs - it's better to have these day-one that halfway through the campaign.

Looking for an alternative funding source is a gamble, particularly since it's demonstrated there is some audience on Kickstarter.
Imo cutting back and simplifying would only reduce the potential audience, and reduce the chances of an eventual commercial success.
And putting it on hold to work on 'mass-market' game is imo a really bad idea. I've seen several indies try that, and what happened to all of them was they got burnt out and their other game flopped. It's hard enough to make one game successful so it seems very risky to pin your hopes on a second being even more successful, particularly if its not a passion project.

Whatever you end up doing, best of luck! And if you decide to go back to crowdfunding I'll definitely chip in again.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
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Mar 16, 2007
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Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm saying this a lot, but the biggest mistake most make on Kickstarter is that they do not gather a community before the campaign starts.
Nowadays, with the flood of projects and people being at least partly disappointed in some results on the platform, I think this is simply mandatory. Especially for new devs.

Well, at least now there is a certain community, so growing from that and then starting another campaign (with some prettier pics, etc.) should give a bonus to the success dice roll.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
It seemed unlikely in the last ten days or so that it would make it, and I guess now we're at that point.

I do hope this game gets made in it's full form. I'd hate to see it get gutted... especially since there seems to be so much of the actual game already.
 

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