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Helherron - a very addictive Nahlakh-like game

Gunnar

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
819
Sounds awesome, I'll check it out after I'm through with the game I'm playing now.
 

akuukka

Educated
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
55
Yes, too much work to do to update all the graphics at once, but we are slowly working towards a new glorious outlook.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Sweet. Way sweet!

Now, I have a small question, about the pacing of the game.

It is very much possible to slowly "grind out" dungeons by entering, finishing a battle, healing, and so on and so forth.
Would you consider enabling enemy respawns in dungeons?
 

akuukka

Educated
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
55
Hmm, probably not in all dungeons, but this could be done in some dungeons like the insectmen. Basically you'd encounter smaller enemy groups but you'd have big trouble resting between the fights.
 

akuukka

Educated
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
55
It's tricky because you can always Gate Travel to safety and rest anyway.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I see.
What I really want to experience is that kind of "Do I keep going forward or do I retreat now" feeling? I like that battle of attrition.
Think something like in the fire dungeon that the witch in the hut sends you to.

Right now, all you really have to lose is a tiny bit of time since going out, healing, and coming back in doesn't have any other penalties.
Do you think there can be some kind of way to implement this into the game in other ways?
 

mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
Sweet. Way sweet!
[..]
Would you consider enabling enemy respawns in dungeons?

I love the achievement of a cleared dungeon with no respawns. Maybe do it like:
- "Enemy forces gathered their soldiers for a final stand!" - Then you face one or two of the last remaining enemy groups on 1 or 2 occasions, while the party walks back to the surface and that's it.

Needs more serious thinking. The old Dungeon Respawn system was ~ is a mindless, lazy way of creating more "fights content" in dungeons used by many Non-Thinking companies. There must be a more fun way to make dungeons busy after massacring all enemies.

It needs Serious Creative Thinking, to create something truly unique and achieve a real innovation in this field.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
You do have a point, V_K. Almost every fight is a great challenge by itself.

Would still like to see something that will give me a "Battle of attrition\survival" feeling, tho.

Oh, also - I remember somebody mentioned it once. Really want to give melee fighters more options! Give 'em more attacks per round or something, please!
 

mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
Dungeon Respawn Solution I.:

STAGE 1: Toward the Boss

All dungeons have plenty of enemies until you reach the boss. Kill the boss and clear out the remaining rooms you haven't been to. At this point the dungeon is empty.

STAGE 2:
Scavengers arrive to a cleared out dungeon. Bandits gathering meat or scavenger-type monsters eating the corpses. These scavengers are hostile and attack the party.
 

Uncle Skull

Educated
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
75
Time to try this beast.

Just 1 quick suggestion: change the title screen background picture in the next version, if you can.
When you run the game for the first time it gives you a very bad impression. The mouthbrether elf fighter whore with the nip slip, glassy-dead eyes, bizzare lips and severly deformed spine has the a face that makes it look like someone just sucked her brain out of her nose. The dwarf is dressed like like a midget bodybuilder who is getting ready to go to Woodstock, the decapitated warcraft orc is bizzare considering that orcs are a playable race and the priest monk wizard guy is out of place since he actually looks like someone from a fantasy setting opposed to looking like a parody.

It would be nice if it was replaced with an image that was more representative of the game. Such as a party made out of humans, a dorf, a elf, a golem, a troll and an orc being shown traveling together over some hills. Hell, if they were just silhouettes of the adventurers it would be awesome. Maybe find someone on Deviant"ART" and ask him nicely in PM to do this?
 
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kothyxaan

Novice
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
28
Location
the shadows
I second Uncle Skull.
Could even go back to the v2.03 picture was it?
Vague recollections of a golem hitting something.

Random Dungeon encounters...
I am not oppossed to them - as long as it makes semi sense.
My thoughts are; enemy patrols, returning foragers could even be a solo encounter with someone/something just wandering.
However once a dungeon is cleared no more encounters until...
Some time has passed.

Basically a good dungeon would never go unpopulated for long.
Options:
Region specific re-population (semi random table based on the region encounters and possible nearby region encounters).
Random re-population (some basic table where the new population is chosen from - with the highest chance to region specific monsters).
The scavanger idea from mercyRPG works too - bandits, bands of orcs etc are fairly opportunistic.
Other options:
Populations could start of small and max with time passing.
Could even grow more powerful (sorta related to the start of small and max - basically starts off with say 4 normal kobolds, a couple of archers a shaman and a leader. They attract new followers 6 normal, 3 archers, 2 shamans, 2 body guards, leader. That is a really rough way in putting it, numbers whimsically made. But you get the idea right?).

PS. Nice work :)
 
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mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
DUNGEON RESPAWN SOLVE IDEAS:
This morning I had a stupid idea about dimensional traps sending the party to pocket dungeons. But all traps are usually discovered - and probably stepped into - on the first walkthrough. So where could those dimensional traps come from and why?

Then I thought about termite swarms digging tunnels for themselves _under_ the dungeon floor (ALIENS style) so players running around too much can fall into one of those holes into the loving arms of a termite swarm.. Again a weak idea.

Now that I mention, the fantastic movie series TREMORS was based on monsters detecting footsteps, so maybe the party - if running around too much in dungeons - can be caught in an Ambush by Ancient Monsters From The Deep. Level scaling - monster level - could be solved by first on low party level these monsters could be worms, then IF PLAYER_LEVEL > NEWBIE_LEVELS THEN something bigger, more hungry, more vicious hears the party running around above and that Abomination hungrily starts to dig itself upward homing in on the party's movements vibrations..

Or now another crazy idea from the super amazing movie Galaxy of Terror (1981) players can fall into strange pits and the walls there are full of holes, from where lots and lots of Teethy blood sucking monster tentacles arise En Masse - in the movie these were long, uninterrupted cables - and bite into the party members bodies like snakes, but their jaws lock on and begin sucking out the Life Fluids from the players..

uh.. sorry. :)
 

mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
[..]
Basically a good dungeon would never go unpopulated for long.
Options:
Region specific re-population (semi random table based on the region encounters and possible nearby region encounters).
Random re-population (some basic table where the new population is chosen from - with the highest chance to region specific monsters).
The scavanger idea from mercyRPG works too - bandits, bands of orcs etc are fairly opportunistic.
Other options:
Populations could start of small and max with time passing.
Could even grow more powerful
(sorta related to the start of small and max - basically starts off with say 4 normal kobolds, a couple of archers a shaman and a leader. They attract new followers 6 normal, 3 archers, 2 shamans, 2 body guards, leader. That is a really rough way in putting it, numbers whimsically made. But you get the idea right?).
Novice Party goes back to a beginner dungeon knowing it will be repopulated after some time. A big kobold stops them at the gate:
- HO! What are you doin' here?? WE ARE THE BOSS NOW!!
With those words lots of red eyes flare up from the dark behind him. :D
 

kothyxaan

Novice
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
28
Location
the shadows
mercyRPG Eh... Galaxy of Terror... was that the movie where there was a woman and a giant caterpillar and... well... yeh... I was like what the hell at that scene.

Imagine Trolls instead of Kobolds though... poor newbie party :D
 

Uncle Skull

Educated
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
75
First, a bug report. Trying to ask the innkeeper in the first town about info always gives me a CTD. A possible very small error is that Bastard swords are more valuable than Claymores, some 20 coins in difference. I didn't try using a bastard sword with a shield so I do not know if that is the reasoning behind it.

The items in my starting chest were utter ass. The only actually valuable thing that could be sold was a gem (amethyst I think). Other than that I got some plants and some useless equipment.
My party is:
- Human monk
- Golem barb.
- Dorf Fighter - Whom I turned into a crossbowman pretty soon because I find 3 melee fighters more than enough. For some reason he started out with a +1 buckler.
- Troll fighter - 2 handed swords as well
- Halfling Thief - He's actually a fucking sniper already, who for some reason cannot pick locks at all despite having the skill. Chests and doors are opened with the massive iron feet of my good friend the golem.
- Elf Mage - she also acts as a merchant because she rolled the highest charisma and has like +40 trade
- Lizardman Shaman
- Human Priest

I've cleared the first dungeon, 50% of the cult village and wandered around a lot. I've fought elks, bears, rabbits, bandits (a group of whom I almost beat on a bridge, but near the end my poor golem got wrecked to pieces) and Neanderthals (who seem far less lethal than the killer rabbits who are able to chew a person apart in 2 crits). I took a boat ride to the lower part of the central island and wandered around till I found that troll lair in the middle of the forest. Oops. I did buy the half plate for my golem in that port town there, so it wasn't a total waste. I've met the witch...
and I am guessing that you have to let her send you to hell, since otherwise she just blinks away. After I tried that and wandered around the fields surrounding her house something started blasting me to pieces, everyone got turned to ice and disintegrated.

I've got loads of questions already.
I've noticed that each of my characters also have a dominant hand. How does this affect weapon/sheild use?
What exactly are the hunger penalties? Do tavern food rations respawn at a reasonable rate, or is hunting inevitable? Does royal food or whatever it was called do something special?
Stealing seems to be useless. At most what people have is just a few gold coins. Can my thief steal equipment if I pump more points into stealing?
What exactly is the use for gemstones, idols etc?
I've got a sacrificial dagger which doesn't seem all that great and doesn't even sell for much. Is it a quest item, should I hang onto it?
How good is dual wielding later on?

I also found a really great weapon in the cult HQ. A mace that does 11 damage, has a 50% stun chance on hit and gives the wielder +33 HP. The selling price is around 4500, while the real value is +9500, so I am not selling it. Just to test, I gave it to my dorf who has around 70 proficiency in maces and sent him in against the arena champion in the starting town, without any buffs or even special equipment. It was piss easy, the dorf didn't even get hit once. Time to decide who shall wield it...
 

Gunnar

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
819
I've got loads of questions already.
I've noticed that each of my characters also have a dominant hand. How does this affect weapon/sheild use?
What exactly are the hunger penalties? Do tavern food rations respawn at a reasonable rate, or is hunting inevitable? Does royal food or whatever it was called do something special?
Stealing seems to be useless. At most what people have is just a few gold coins. Can my thief steal equipment if I pump more points into stealing?
What exactly is the use for gemstones, idols etc?
I've got a sacrificial dagger which doesn't seem all that great and doesn't even sell for much. Is it a quest item, should I hang onto it?
How good is dual wielding later on?

I also found a really great weapon in the cult HQ. A mace that does 11 damage, has a 50% stun chance on hit and gives the wielder +33 HP. The selling price is around 4500, while the real value is +9500, so I am not selling it. Just to test, I gave it to my dorf who has around 70 proficiency in maces and sent him in against the arena champion in the starting town, without any buffs or even special equipment. It was piss easy, the dorf didn't even get hit once. Time to decide who shall wield it...

That is a great weapon, since stun on hit is the best weapon suffix and you get the HP boost in addition.

Food isn't really a big deal; it's cheap, stock regenerates and there are lots of shops that sell it. I never once used hunting. Royal meal just counts as more 'filling' than a basic meal, so where a Troll might eat two basic rations for dinner, he only needs one royal meal. I think hunger incurs stat loss, not sure - you'll become useless in combat if starving.

I also found stealing useless.

Gems and idols and daggers are all vendor trash.

I can't comment on dual wielding but I have used shield character and wasn't all that impressed. The AC bonus from the shield becomes less noticeable as the game goes on and you stack up AC to high levels. I would have preferred some extra damage. Maybe dominant hand comes into play with dual wielding?

edit - about the thief, he can open locks if you get his skill high enough, but you'll have to make multiple attempts and the skill has to be really high before he'll succeed often. He gets XP every time he does this, so you'll miss out on that if you use the kick for everything. Also there are some doors that can ONLY be opened with lockpicking.
 
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mercyRPG

Cipher
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
794
Location
Alpha Centauri
[..]
What exactly are the hunger penalties?
"Sudden Death", if you ignore hunger and wait too long.

Stealing seems to be useless. At most what people have is just a few gold coins. Can my thief steal equipment if I pump more points into stealing?
The higher the stealing skill, the more gold steal. Antti, the developer said something about upgrading the PickPocketing System (IIRC).

What exactly is the use for gemstones, idols etc?
Treasure to sell for money, ATM.
Would be nice if these idols could become Power Items, summoning a djinn or demon or resurrect your dead party members, etc..

How good is dual wielding later on?
If you find two very powerful weapons and they can be dual wielded, why not? Otherwise just increase the STR for a 2HD weapon.

I also found a really great weapon in the cult HQ. A mace that does 11 damage, has a 50% stun chance on hit and gives the wielder +33 HP.
I also wiped out a couple of hard arena bullies with that one!

It looks like the whole game is being upgraded right now. It seems that vast changes are coming to the entire combat system too or I might be hallucinating from those mushrooms I bought in the ingame shops.
 

Uncle Skull

Educated
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
75
MAJOR GAME BREAKING EXPLOIT DETECTED!
When conversing with merchants, you can take all of their inventory without paying them a single dime. Press or hold T instead of enter, the game acts like you are exchanging equipment between characters or picking stuff up from the ground and doesn't take any of your money away.

Other than that, I am loving this game more and more as time pases. Went to both other islands just to check 'em out, bought some nifty spells at the desert one. I've also found the "secret" western river path that leads to a few ghouls in the Kobold cave when I visited the place, really neat even tough all I got from it was a rather lousy axe.
The combat really is hard as balls, but boy is it fun when you make it go your way.

Food isn't really a big deal; it's cheap, stock regenerates and there are lots of shops that sell it. I never once used hunting. Royal meal just counts as more 'filling' than a basic meal, so where a Troll might eat two basic rations for dinner, he only needs one royal meal. I think hunger incurs stat loss, not sure - you'll become useless in combat if starving.

Gems and idols and daggers are all vendor trash.

I can't comment on dual wielding but I have used shield character and wasn't all that impressed. The AC bonus from the shield becomes less noticeable as the game goes on and you stack up AC to high levels. I would have preferred some extra damage. Maybe dominant hand comes into play with dual wielding?

about the thief, he can open locks if you get his skill high enough, but you'll have to make multiple attempts and the skill has to be really high before he'll succeed often. He gets XP every time he does this, so you'll miss out on that if you use the kick for everything. Also there are some doors that can ONLY be opened with lockpicking.

Thanks for the info. I've been to the capital, saw the farmers market and have been meeting wandering farmers on the roads too so I stopped worrying about food. The only time I hunt now is if it's night and I want to get into town to sell my stuff/identify, might as well stock up on some extra meat.

Could also try hunting in a forest.

In my experience, this is the only way you get anything at all. I've tried hunting on fields and on hills and got nothing. Some forests also seem to be richer in game than others, tough that could just be my imagination or really bad RNG at work.

Would be nice if these idols could become Power Items, summoning a djinn or demon or resurrect your dead party members, etc..
When I first saw them, I thought they would be crafting items of some kind, or items needed to be held inside a caster's inventory as a requirement to being able to use certain spells.

If you find two very powerful weapons and they can be dual wielded, why not? Otherwise just increase the STR for a 2HD weapon.
I also wiped out a couple of hard arena bullies with that one!

I just found a life stealing sword that also gives the enemy weakness on hit. Gave it to the Troll, Jakhob's mace in left hand and this blade in the right one. Buffed him with all the spells I had and threw him into the arena. Even tough it seems that sometimes (but not often) on hit the effects don't register if you dual wield and the damage is reduced quite a bit because of his lowish skill (around 70 dual wielding), the combination works amazingly well. I've earned a level and around 8000 gold or maybe even more until the opponent became too strong and no amount of save scumming would help.

Please oh please Mr. Dev, give melee warriors some love! Special skills! More attacks, anything!
How hard can it be?
Special skills/perks or even just weapon passives would be really nice. Something like maces ignore 50% armor and do extra damage to skeletons, longer polearms always have first strike while shorter ones attack twice when guarding, sabers and scimitars always cause extreme bleeding on unarmored opponents as they do in reality, etc.
Unarmed could use a boost too. Some sort of way to attain special attacks/some cool passives would be awesome. Gauntlets could also boost unarmed damage.

A few more questions:

Is there a point to the bee hive? There is no way that place is that small, but I couldn't find a single secret entrance no matter how long I've searched.
How much of the loot is randomized?
Bleeding seems to drain a certain amount of hitpoints each turn, more if it's serious. But what exactly does poison do? Does it kill outright after a certain number of turns passes?
 
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