Is Starcraft 2 worth checking out now?

[Lyric Suite]

Well, i'm actually getting my ass kicked by the AI in skirmish so i guess i got what i was looking for. One of this days i'll try to muster the courage to get through the campaigns.

 

[ArchAngel]

Out of Sc2 campaigns, the WoL one was the best one as far as characters and lore were concerned. There was some real emotions there and it made more sense than the next two. Even the Raynor swicharoo at the end where he goes over his word from BW (love does make people change their minds).

As for gameplay, all 3 campaigns had fun and just plain missions.

 

[Kraszu]

SC1 in the new engine would be great. Better AI and some of the conveniences of SC2 (the ability to select more than 12 units, the counter for harvesting units, and so forth) would be kinda cool.

Being able to select more units would actually influence the game balance, craclings would be more effective. UI isn't just a cosmetic change, the UI changes made to SC2 had changed how the game is played. In SC:BW you had to focus much more on the macro, you had to constantly go back to your base, you had to know when to do it (you should be doing it even when there is fight going on you just need to know/decide when you can do it, and leave your units without supervision for few seconds), in SC2 this exist to much lesser extent. Also even better AI of units (pathfinding) would break the game, this is the reason why there is so much flanking in sc:bw, that hardly exist in sc2.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Being able to select more units would actually influence the game balance, craclings would be more effective. UI isn't just a cosmetic change, the UI changes made to SC2 had changed how the game is played. In SC:BW you had to focus much more on the macro, you had to constantly go back to your base, you had to know when to do it (you should be doing it even when there is fight going on you just need to know/decide when you can do it, and leave your units without supervision for few seconds), in SC2 this exist to much lesser extent. Also even better AI of units (pathfinding) would break the game, this is the reason why there is so much flanking in sc:bw, that hardly exist in sc2.

Absototallutely. People might call it Stockholm Syndrome, but the crappy pathfinding and limit to 12 units at a time are super important parts of what makes BW great. They combine to mean that deathballs are simply unfeasible - The hugely chaotic nature of moving a large amount of troops across the map means that any halfway decent player can ambush you and wipe out half your army before you know what's happening. As a result, the competitive game ended up focusing a lot more on small skirmishes and a constant give-and-take between smaller unit groups all across the map. Less focused on one big battle and more on a dozen or so small battles happening all at once.

It's like the shower scene in Psycho, you know? The censorship board didn't allow Hitchcock to show the knife actually piercing the skin, which is what he'd intended. As a result, what would have been a pretty straightforward stabbing scene actually ended up becoming one of the most visceral and enduring scenes in movie history. The point is that while restrictions aren't always good, the workarounds and solutions they can require can often end up being better than the original vision. BW's AI can be infuriating (Dragoons... or suicidal Mutas :/) but it ended up playing a hugely important role in how the game worked out, and prevented the deathball vs deathball style of battles that you'll see in SC2, AoE, etc.

My hope is that BW HD will be the same as it was, just with an SC2-style ladder. The biggest issue with BW IMHO is that it can be ridiculously hard to find an opponent of a similar skill level as you. Yeah, add in SC2's functionality for matchmaking, post-game review, that sort of thing... That'd be pretty rad. I'd buy that.

 

[Maculo]

Well, i'm actually getting my ass kicked by the AI in skirmish so i guess i got what i was looking for. One of this days i'll try to muster the courage to get through the campaigns.

I replayed the campaigns on Brutal recently. Overall , I think WoL offers the best experience in terms of gameplay and army choices on brutal mode. The upgrades offer decent options without making your army too cheesy. In contrast, HotS is cancerous with Kerrigan and some of the units available. For example, you can get the Hydralisk transformation called the "Impaler." It is a ranged 11 attack from a burrowed unit, which deals extra damage to armored units. If you combine Impaler with Kerrigan's frenzy spell (gives 200 HP, plus increased attack speed) and you can kill the map with just Kerrigan and a few 5-7 impalers.

LotV is 2nd to WoL in my opinion. The story is blah, but the campaign and unit upgrades make things interesting, but not the cheesy, bullshit level of HotS.

 

[Kraszu]

My hope is that BW HD will be the same as it was, just with an SC2-style ladder. The biggest issue with BW IMHO is that it can be ridiculously hard to find an opponent of a similar skill level as you. Yeah, add in SC2's functionality for matchmaking, post-game review, that sort of thing... That'd be pretty rad. I'd buy that.

You can try iccup.

btw there was a big brood war tournament in korea recently. Link to vods with english commentary:

 

[Daedalos]

Starcraft 2 writing and campaign was atrociously bad compared to Starcraft 1 and Brood War. It was LIGHTYEARS ahead of its day in 1997/1998, and still is.

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Starcraft 2 is an ok game on its own, it's just that Broodwar did everything better almost 20 years ago.
Mengsk: If it would have been ahead of its time, it would have sucked (as most games do nowadays).

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Starcraft 2 writing and campaign was atrociously bad compared to Starcraft 1 and Brood War. It was LIGHTYEARS ahead of its day in 1997/1998, and still is.

Except SC1 was exactly in its day in 97/98. That's why it was so good, because the late 90s and early 2000s were the best era in PC gaming.

 

[Great Deceiver]

the late 80s and early 90s were the best era in PC gaming.

 

[MRY]

Brood War was already a huge step down from the original campaign in terms of storytelling, though its presentation, mission design, and in-mission cutscenes were so much better -- and we were all young, and foolish, and easily wowed by Dark Templars -- people didn't notice at the time. Brood War added an outrageous amount of melodrama. The OC strikes the right balance of hopelessness and rag-taggedness.

I still think Myth's combination of robbed-from-Black Company writing, music, and voice-over for mission briefings is the best of the era. It's just that Myth's cartoons and slapstick missions run crosswise to the mission briefings, so the total package (speaking from a narrative standpoint) is somewhat less than Starcraft.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I dearly, dearly miss Myth. I didn't think the cartoons detracted from the experience, although they were clearly not as grimdark as the actual narrative.

 

[MRY]

People say "But he's like the new BW-era Kerrigan!" Nope. I just played Brood War, and I sure as hell don't remember any monologues about "LOL evil is teh coolest!"

I couldn't get past the first Starcraft 2 campaign, and I'm sure you're right that this character is terrible, but...

You know, Admiral, I think I'll just massacre your remaining troops and watch you die in agony. How would that be? You see, at this point, I'm pretty much the Queen Bitch of the Universe. And not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, man, a bit of a one-trick pony with her:

I said, you are free to go. I've already taken your honor. I'll let you live, because I know that from now on; your every waking moment will be torture. You'll never be able to forgive yourself for what I've forced you to do. And that, Zeratul, is a better revenge than I could have ever dreamed of.

I'll let you have a head start, before I send the Swarms after you. It'll be interesting sport to see how far you get before you die.

I want you to live to see me rise to power and I want you to always remember, in your most private moments, that it was you who let me loose in the first place

I dearly, dearly miss Myth. I didn't think the cartoons detracted from the experience, although they were clearly not as grimdark as the actual narrative.

It's not really a matter of grimdarkness, it's just presentation. The mission briefings are presented as Classy Minimalism, the cartoons are like 80s anime.

 

[almondblight]

Starcraft 2 writing and campaign was atrociously bad compared to Starcraft 1 and Brood War. It was LIGHTYEARS ahead of its day in 1997/1998, and still is.

Brood War really screwed up stuff from Starcraft 1. For instance, the terrans were supposed to be a lost group of colonists that built up their civilization in the Koprulu sector over centuries. Then the UED randomly show up, and they have the exact same tech and act just like another terran faction. The earth forces should seem as alien as the protoss to the terrans. Another thing that annoyed me was that at the end of Starcraft 1, Tassadar sacrifices himself to destroy the Overmind and save Aiur from the zerg (and the epilogue makes it clear that this was successful). Except, nah, Brood War writers decided that Aiur was taken over by the zerg anyway and that the Overmind was coming back. Eh.

Brood War is also full of a bunch of credulous rubes falling for simplistic tricks. And the people that don't fall for them are apparently too stupid to, like, talk to their allies, opting instead to cut communications and go into armed revolt.

 

[MilesBeyond]

People say "But he's like the new BW-era Kerrigan!" Nope. I just played Brood War, and I sure as hell don't remember any monologues about "LOL evil is teh coolest!"

I couldn't get past the first Starcraft 2 campaign, and I'm sure you're right that this character is terrible, but...

I don't disagree with you. Kerrigan was never going to win any awards for "Deep and profound character." But as she is, she's still miles above and beyond Alarak, who would literally sit around on the ship brooding about darkness.

 

[ArchAngel]

People say "But he's like the new BW-era Kerrigan!" Nope. I just played Brood War, and I sure as hell don't remember any monologues about "LOL evil is teh coolest!"

I couldn't get past the first Starcraft 2 campaign, and I'm sure you're right that this character is terrible, but...

I don't disagree with you. Kerrigan was never going to win any awards for "Deep and profound character." But as she is, she's still miles above and beyond Alarak, who would literally sit around on the ship brooding about darkness.

She was not meant to win any, but she was still miles better than in other RTS games like Kano (or was it Cano) from NOD or shitty antagonists from Warcraft games. The real downfall in Blizzard storytelling started with WC3.

 

[MRY]

Brood War Kerrigan is worse than OC Kerrigan. And OC Kerrigan had much better antagonists overall -- Duke, Mengsk, Zasz, the Overmind, etc. Overall, and appropriately for an RTS, the story focused more on institutions (the swarm, the Confederacy, Mengsk's rebellion). The characters were a useful part of that story, but by BW they were too important by comparison, and too anime-like. Raynor is down-and-out frontier sheriff who can't fend off the zerg; Zeratul is cape-wearing, dual-wielding, ageless exile who talks like a hybrid of Raziel and Batman.

 

[MilesBeyond]

OC Kerrigan annoys me because of how she was handled. You read the backstory, and she's literally the entire catalyst for the game. Zerg kill Xel'Naga, Zerg learn of Protoss from Xel'Naga, Zerg decide to assimilate Protoss, Zerg realize they need their own psionic powers to combat the Protoss psionic powers, Zerg discover Terrans and move to infest them to turn their psionic capabilities against the Protoss. That's literally the entire reason why the game happens. The Zerg want to infest Ghosts. They do it, they get an immensely powerful psionic warrior, and... they leave her to dick around on Char while they go to invade Aiur? What, like do they get an achievement for conquering Aiur without psionics or something? Are they trying to get enough points to unlock the next skin? Is that why some Zerg look so different in SC2?

Also, this cinematic sums up everything that was wrong with SC2's writing:



It comes so close to being completely awesome. The only thing that's missing is the slightest hint of self-awareness. That's what keeps me from enjoying it as a great send-up of just about every sci-fi action cliche there is, and instead leaves me scratching my head thinking "Were they serious when they made this?" Even the tiniest shift in tone could have made this great - but instead it ends up seeming like they genuinely think this was an epic, badass, cinematic experience. I am, as it happens, sufficiently stupid to have enough faith in the writers that they didn't think that. I cannot honestly imagine a group of writers sitting around coming up with this and saying "Oh yeah, that's it. That's what we want." "Awesome, that's hilarious," sure. That I could see. But for the sake of my sanity, I have to believe that this cinematic was an intentional affectionate parody that came across the wrong way.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Side note: If I say that I have faith in the writers, but I admit that doing so makes me stupid, do I really have faith in the writers?

(I made this a separate post rather than an edit for the express purpose of harvesting mystery reacts)

 

[MRY]

Kerrigan was originally supposed to be on Auir, I remember there being one of the lost missions where she was in charge of the Zerg fought there.

Considering SC2, wans't the Overmind pretty much doing suicide by Tassadar? It was ultimately a slave to Amon, and it wanted to die so the Zerg could be led by Kerrigan and freed.

"protoss 6" (Into the Darkness) The mission briefing has a lot of unused content. Raynor was supposed to be included as Tassadar reaffirmed his commitment to recovering the Dark Templar. This scene may have been removed since Kerrigan does not appear during the mission.

- Show portrait of Jim Raynor (Marine) in slot Slot 3.
- Pause for 1000 milliseconds.
- Show speaking animation for Slot 3.
Play 'P6B01ura.wav'.
Modify transmission duration: Subtract 0 milliseconds.
Display the following text:
That won't be easy, man. That's Kerrigan down there leading those Zerg. She won't let us
go without a fight.
- Show speaking animation for Slot 4.
Play 'P6B02uta.wav'.
Modify transmission duration: Subtract 0 milliseconds.
Display the following text:
I know, my friend. With all due respect to you, and to the feelings you once had for her,
you must know that I will not hesitate to destroy her should she pose a threat to us.
Nothing shall prevent me from delivering the Dark Templar to Aiur.

Nothing.
- Pause for 1000 milliseconds.
- Hide portrait in slot Slot 3.