Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

They have about equal amounts of trash imo. PoE is just more noticeable due to people picking up everything because of the infinite stash, then opening it and discovering endless mountains of trash. You don't have enough space to pick up everything in the BGs.

Sure. The flipside of that though is that once your inventories start filling up when you're in the middle of a deep dungeon in the IE games, the amount of time you start spending prioritizing which items to keep and which ones to throw away far exceeds the time spent selling all the junk you hoovered up into your infinite stash in PoE.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's kinda pointless to have so much trash, what is the justification for this? Just don't have everything drop its shitty equipment. Even the economy is fucked in both games, you get a minimum of 150k+ gold in BG1 alone with hardly anything to spend it on (I mainly spend it on Acid and Dispelling arrows, and sometimes potions of Cloud Giant Strength). Give us something awesome (and logical) to buy! This isn't communism where even with all the money in the world there isn't anything to buy. I think NWN2 got away with this by having the Stronghold upgrades be ridiculously expensive (like 100,000 gold for the Wizard Tower).

 

[ga♥]

You're wrong about that too, though. There were so many kobold short swords in BG1 that one of the game's dialogues had a joke about them.

Not comparable on PoE which is far worse, most items, even unique ones are dulled down to the point of being boring.

Citation needed about that dialogue on kobold swords.

And btw you could use gems to upgrade items in the BG series as well, and some of them were required for quests.

 

[Sizzle]

I think NWN2 got away with this by having the Stronghold upgrades be ridiculously expensive (like 100,000 gold for the Wizard Tower).

If memory serves, this was one of the initial ideas for the PoE Stronghold - that it would be an investment sink (and economy balancer) similar to Crossroad Keep.

But comparing these two is silly - Crossroad Keep was a fun, fleshed-out and integral part of the story. Caed Nua was a tacked on Stretchgoal.

 

[Infinitron]

It's kinda pointless to have so much trash, what is the justification for this?

During PoE's development, many backers expressed their desire that PoE have "simulationist" enemy inventory - that every killed enemy drop all the items it's actually carrying. Enemies that drop random loot unrelated to what they actually had equipped were seen as an undesirable modern MMO-like convention.

 

[santino27]

It's kinda pointless to have so much trash, what is the justification for this?

During PoE's development, many backers expressed their desire that PoE have "simulationist" enemy inventory - that every killed enemy drop all the items it's actually carrying. Enemies that drop random loot unrelated to what they actually had equipped were seen as an undesirable modern MMO-like convention.

Agreed. I do think everyone realized as a result of PoE though that it was an idea that worked better in theory than in actual practice. Glad to see there'll be less trash in PoE2.

 

[Lacrymas]

But comparing these two is silly - Crossroad Keep was a fun, fleshed-out and integral part of the story. Caed Nua was a tacked on Stretchgoal.

Both have similar goals, both designed by Josh Obsidian. You can safely ignore both and not spend even a gold coin on them. Yeah, the last battle in the Crossroad Keep is going to be a bit harder, but who cares. Crossroad Keep is infinite times better than Caed Nua, however, even if we only compare their place in the story, let alone their usefulness in the gameplay department, you get a lot of unique and powerful equipment and quests (even class-based ones!) from upgrading everything in Crossroad Keep, while only the bounties amount to anything in Caed Nua. I think we've been over this though, I distinctly remember saying that Josh has said that "people" (who?) hated dealing with Crossroad Keep and how it "gates" content, but that's nonsensical, it's like complaining that being a certain class "gates" content made specifically for other classes. It's not even that because you can get CK's content regardless of anything. I.e. people are bitching about reactivity and having to interact with the game in some other way other than combat lololol.

During PoE's development, many backers expressed their desire that PoE have "simulationist" enemy inventory - that every killed enemy drop all the items it's actually carrying. Enemies that drop random loot unrelated to what they actually had equipped were seen as an undesirable modern MMO-like convention.

Nobody is advocating random MMO-like loot. There aren't only two options, i.e. either random loot or everything drops endless fixed amounts of trash. Just have the characters acknowledge the fallen enemies' generic equipment and say that it's not worth picking up, done deal. Maybe even have them be displayed in the loot box, but when moused over have it say "there's no reason to pick this up".

 

[Quillon]

both designed by Josh

Donno about NWN2 but Tim Cain designed Caed Nua.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't believe Tim Cain really designed Caed Nua. I think Obsidian have been kind of shifty about saying that Tim Cain "designed" things when he was actually only implementing Sawyer's design (though maybe while providing his own input in the process).

But the NWN2 stronghold probably wasn't designed by Josh, he only came into that game half a year before the end.

 

[Quillon]

Well he designed it but he had limited resources so he went for systemic approach and what role the stronghold would play & its limits prolly defined by Sawyer, yeah. <Due to crowdfunding's "open development" style we can find excuses for bad content easily like this and it comes out as "defending the game". Now that they are not wrestling with the tech & not working on a tight budget as they proclaimed, we can bash f.i. ship-ronghold more freely(without someone like me mentioning the excuses) if it turns out as bad

 

[Sannom]

What kind of retard picks up trash loot anyways? I stopped doing that all the way back in BG2! If it wasn't magical or couldn't fit in one of my containers, I left it on the floor!

 

[CptMace]

It's kinda pointless to have so much trash, what is the justification for this?

I specifically remember that, after the kickstarter campaign and before the game got released, there was, among all the stupid threads on the obsidian forums, a topic about how it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to be able to loot what you see, ie every enemy should drop what he uses in a fight. Just like in good ol' baldur's gate ! The real problem imo is, and I never liked this game mechanic, the stash being accessible anywhere for deposit. As Infinitron more or less clearly wrote it : you don't notice how much trash there is in Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale since you can't hold all these puppies broadswords.

Frankly, I feel that if POE didn't include this loot what you see idea, that ended how we know, the drama would have been of epic proportions about how unrealistic it would have been. Goddamit my writing is straight awful, apologies.

It's kinda pointless to have so much trash, what is the justification for this?

During PoE's development, many backers expressed their desire that PoE have "simulationist" enemy inventory - that every killed enemy drop all the items it's actually carrying. Enemies that drop random loot unrelated to what they actually had equipped were seen as an undesirable modern MMO-like convention.

This is why I should read threads before I post my shit. Sorry. Deal with it though.

 

[santino27]

What kind of retard picks up trash loot anyways? I stopped doing that all the way back in BG2! If it wasn't magical or couldn't fit in one of my containers, I left it on the floor!

I... uhm.. did it all for the extra coin. (And the nookie, for those of you old enough to remember and regret that phrase)

In PoE, I felt like coin was scarce at first, due to stronghold construction costs and most of the good drops (this changed as the game went on, of course) being store purchases.

 

[Rev]

What kind of retard picks up trash loot anyways? I stopped doing that all the way back in BG2! If it wasn't magical or couldn't fit in one of my containers, I left it on the floor!

Well, in BG2 I did the same because the inventory had limited space and so after a while I stopped picking shit items so I wouldn't had to make space for new, more useful stuff along the way, but in PoE you have an endless stash to put all the junk, so there's no reason not to collect it and then make some money from it later on.

 

[Sizzle]

so there's no reason not to collect it and then make some money from it later on.

Except that you make so much money in this game - picking up and selling mundane crap is only useful at the very beginning.

If you still continue doing it after you have more than a couple of thousand GP, you're doing it because you've been conditioned to, not because the game is forcing you to do so.

 

[Rev]

Except that you make so much money in this game - picking up and selling mundane crap is only useful at the very beginning.

If you still continue doing it after you have more than a couple of thousand GP, you're doing it because you've been conditioned to, not because the game is forcing you to do so.

Guess I'm a greedy person, then.

 

[BilboBaggins]

I do like that you can pick up exactly what they had on them as long as you can stack the items in your inventory (which it sounds like you can now). I'm old school so I still remember giant rats dropping suits of armor and how ridiculous that was. If you don't like the endless trash, just don't pick it up? I'm on auto-pilot with that stuff, just grab it all and sort it out later at the local merchant like a Coinstar machine.

 

[Fry]

 

[Lacrymas]

I think what people mean when they say "enemies drop their visible gear" is that they want the unique items they carry be represented on their model, as a sort of badge to indicate their specialness, then get the item off their corpse. I doubt anyone is satisfied with this trash avalanche that we eventually got. Maybe looting itself should be rethought.

 

[Quillon]

I think what people mean when they say "enemies drop their visible gear" is that...

...they have mistaken this type of game with gamebyro games/NV.

Why don't they do these streams before noon their time? Day time for US & around evening for EU instead of middle of the night.

 

[CptMace]

I do like that you can pick up exactly what they had on them as long as you can stack the items in your inventory (which it sounds like you can now). I'm old school so I still remember giant rats dropping suits of armor and how ridiculous that was. If you don't like the endless trash, just don't pick it up? I'm on auto-pilot with that stuff, just grab it all and sort it out later at the local merchant like a Coinstar machine.

I have the feeling it would have caused massive outrage. Doesn't change the bastard "realistic get it all / access magical stash everywhere" mechanic.

I think what people mean when they say "enemies drop their visible gear" is that they want the unique items they carry be represented on their model, as a sort of badge to indicate their specialness, then get the item off their corpse. I doubt anyone is satisfied with this trash avalanche that we eventually got. Maybe looting itself should be rethought.

PoE does that. I remember that sanguine plate armor and was like "gimme gimme". Ofc it reminds me of two painful memories of the base game : items are boring and the sanguine plate armor is the only item that popped out. Well yeah it's monochromatically red
But I rest certain most people who asked for it meant what Infinitron wrote about : realistic item drop depending on enemy's gear/nature.
Now again, the actual problem lies in its combination with the stash. As people pointed out already, it wasn't a problem in BG or IWD since you just don't pick that shit up. Yet it feels nice to see corpses drop what the bad guys had on them, it's just a nice touch. Not when you can click "pick all in a 15ft radius" at the end of every fight and spend 5 minutes frantically clicking sell item during the next shop stop.

 

[Lacrymas]

PoE does that.

Yeah, I know, that's my point. People want to see that instead of Xaurip spear No 84934839 on Xaurip No 84934839.

 

[Iznaliu]

If you still continue doing it after you have more than a couple of thousand GP, you're doing it because you've been conditioned to, not because the game is forcing you to do so.

PoE is a government conditioning tool for the upcoming post-scarcity world.

 

[Prime Junta]

I think what people mean when they say "enemies drop their visible gear" is that they want the unique items they carry be represented on their model, as a sort of badge to indicate their specialness, then get the item off their corpse. I doubt anyone is satisfied with this trash avalanche that we eventually got. Maybe looting itself should be rethought.

I've always been annoyed by gear mysteriously disappearing from corpses. Muh immershun and all that. I mean sure some of it won't be salvageable, but if none of the weapons are left that just feels wrong. I like muh trash loot!

 

[CptMace]

I remain certain people actually wanted the trash loot. Because of the like good ol BG factor.
Remember the butthurt caused by the engagement system ? Yeah this sounds really dumb now that we played through the game and know what its actual flaws are. The problem people had with it was not its logic, nor the fact it was bugged (because, even fixed, it still was not OK). The problem was it's not like good ol IE games. I remember the indepth videos of Sensuki who explained why engagement was a disaster, and a part of his argumentation was In IWD, this is how it works : and then proceeds to show us how kiting Yxunomei around archers and wizards is good gameplay.
I'm not saying engagement is great, although it's far from poe's main problems regarding gameplay, but I claim that the main reason it got a surreal amount of criticism is solely based on the fact there was no engagement in BG2. Frankly I don't remember any actual debate around this that didn't include, at some point, a it wasn't there argument.