Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Codex Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
At level 7 it doesn't feel like a massive difficulty spike (until a bit later at least). At level 5 it's frankly brutal.

For anyone trying to do it at an early level, some tips which worked for me at level 4:
  • Top side of the map has only 2-3 ogres, you can loop around and get to the warleader easily
  • There is a stair chokepoint north of Drazir, you can funnel them through there
  • Ogres have low will and get owned by Ciphers (GM). Combined with the above, you can charm an ogre on the stairs and he will get conncaved by the canoneers+block the path for everyone else. The ogres will do the majority of the damage themselves.
  • Drazir has high deflection unlike the other ogres, charming him is the easiest way to kill him
  • Kill the wolves immediately or they will own you with their breath
  • Durance for accuracy, Kana summons
Fortress remains the worst and most tacked on part of the game, even improved as it is. I also state this in the review.

I did it at level 5 and it's probably the hardest video game experience I've ever had - even so, I hit another road block at Galvino's Workship. I would recommend level 7. Level 6 will just be tough as nails. The two biggest issues are the no-rest Stalwart fights with A LOT of ogres and Galvino's.

Galvino's has lvl 13-14 mechanics req traps, and the ranged constructs are ridic. I usually do it last before entering the Battery, for some reason I find it tougher than the Battery itself.

About the fortress, dunno what people would even like in a stronghold. Can't recall a RPG with a better base than 3.0 Pillars (NWN2 OC is equiv imo). I understand hating the mechanic itself but it's implemented quite nicely in PoE.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
^ I will add to anyone attempting early Stalwart that Hiravias (or other druid's) charm animal spell is almost 100% guaranteed to work on those pesky winter wolves. That's how I beat Stalwart @ 5.
 
Last edited:

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
7,587
All the cucks saying that BG2 > BG1 should just go to a nice clinic in Switzerland and euthanize themselves.

Sentences like "It's not like bg2 but better than bg1" its just a patethic try at defending that pos of a game without any clue, trying to mantain a sort of restrain to appear reasonable with the only result of being moronic beyond measure.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
^ I will add to anyone attempting early Stalwart that Hiravias (or other druid's) charm animal spell is almost 100% guaranteed to work on those pesky winter wolves. That's how I beat Stalwart @ 5.

Not as big of a deal but for roleplay purposes, hiravais can save both people from the burning building. Since he is short, has decent dexterity and a frost spell, he can succeed in all checks.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
^ I will add to anyone attempting early Stalwart that Hiravias (or other druid's) charm animal spell is almost 100% guaranteed to work on those pesky winter wolves. That's how I beat Stalwart @ 5.

Not as big of a deal but for roleplay purposes, hiravais can save both people from the burning building. Since he is short, has decent dexterity and a frost spell, he can succeed in all checks.

He can but I'm pretty sure he can't get the bonus item that a few other companions can
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
^ I will add to anyone attempting early Stalwart that Hiravias (or other druid's) charm animal spell is almost 100% guaranteed to work on those pesky winter wolves. That's how I beat Stalwart @ 5.

Not as big of a deal but for roleplay purposes, hiravais can save both people from the burning building. Since he is short, has decent dexterity and a frost spell, he can succeed in all checks.

He can but I'm pretty sure he can't get the bonus item that a few other companions can

The ring? Or is there something else as well?
 

Prime Junta

Guest
BTW if you want to get your arse kicked in a really funny way, head straight to Crägholdt when you get the quest, and wake up that drunken orlan. I dit that. It was a LOLwhattheFUCK? moment.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,471
BTW if you want to get your arse kicked in a really funny way, head straight to Crägholdt when you get the quest, and wake up that drunken orlan. I dit that. It was a LOLwhattheFUCK? moment.

I thought it was some sort of weird bug the first time I played it :D
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
felipepepe

So the changes you mentioned may have improved your PoE experience; but it doesn't make PoE with latest patch 11/10 as the shill's review would have you believe.

The literary diarrhoea of lore dumps still persists and makes the game a chore. And the 3.x.x patches didn't fix it.
But no one is saying it's 11/10! FFS, the "shill's review" has an entire section - over 900 words - just talking about how bad the "wikipedia lore dump" is:

The main problem with the setting is that Pillars of Eternity is so concerned with delivering its heavy lore that most characters do not act like characters but rather deliver their lines much like walking Wikipedia articles. After playing Pillars of Eternity for a while, you start to dread clicking the 'Talk' icon hovering over random NPCs, because all too often, initiating dialogue is functionally identical to clicking hyperlinks on everyone's favorite, digital encyclopedia.

It really looks like people don't even bother to read the article. This isn't "shills vs. critical gentlemen", is "the patches & expansions really improved some parts of the game vs. POE IS WORSE THAN GARBAGE!!!1".
The loredumps are a dead horse even the game's Lead Writer has beaten. When looking at the whole review, that quote doesn't make the review objective or fair. It shows how much the author is willing to ignore in order to praise the game as much as possible. How do you dread clicking the talk icon in an RPG with 700k words and call it a "masterpiece", "a joy to play"? Especially a KS CRPG which had the writing as one of the major selling points. It's a fundamental flaw, but it's treated in the review as a minor one.

Same thing with the story. He basically calls it a waste of time for 75 hours(!), and says the main plot is only told in the last 5. This is harsh criticism, but somehow the game's greatness isn't affected one bit by this huge failure. As for the lack of reactivity, it's criticized in the trial quest, but praised as "subtle and less defeated by the plot" in other areas, with only Raedric's Hold, the one quest even many critics praised, as an example. PoE's generic quest design and terrible exploration aren't even mentioned. The "staggering number of side quests" had to be praised, however.

It just shows how much the game's fanboys have shifted goalposts. They act like it was supposed to be Icewind Dale 3 all along and call the last version a triumph.
 
Last edited:

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
None - not a single one - of my favourite RPGs are without flaws the size of the lackluster writing in PoE's base game. I thought that much was clear from the intro.

And judging by the Codex' tendency to hail "flawed gems", it's not just me.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,409
On the one hand, revisionist shills are spreading their corruption outside of their shithole. On the other, retards are trying to counter them by glorifying garbage like the Infinity Engine games.

The Codex is lost.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,385
Location
Copenhagen
The never ending Obsidian shilling is laughable. Hope you guys aren't doing it for free.

I think the following Obsidian games are mediocre at best and terrible at worst:

- Tyranny
- Alpha Protocol
- Neverwinter Nights 2
- Dungeon Siege 3
- South Park

But I suppose that doesn't matter because if you like Pillars you're automatically an Obs shill, right?

What if I'm overleveled for WM? I'm 12, is it just going to be a cakewalk?

There is a one-shot level-scaling you can activate when you start it, but you'll still have a somewhat easy time during the first half, probably.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,631
Location
Ommadawn
None - not a single one - of my favourite RPGs are without flaws the size of the lackluster writing in PoE's base game. I thought that much was clear from the intro.

And judging by the Codex' tendency to hail "flawed gems", it's not just me.
Except those games usually have other pieces of them that absolutely do stand out from the rest in the genre, and they do them in an excellent manner.
PoE doesn't have this element. Everything about it ranges from complete shit, goes through dull, and some hits the "good" mark.

An example of this is actually Alpha Protocol, a game you said is "mediocre at best". That game has incredible choice & consequence and a pretty entertaining main story line and cast of characters. You'd have to be a complete faggotron not to enjoy that game as an RPG fan.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
What if I'm overleveled for WM? I'm 12, is it just going to be a cakewalk?

If you switch on high-level scaling, nah. The start will be easy but by the time you hit Part 2 you'll be more or less on the level curve, and whatever you do the toughest fights will be pretty tough.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,153
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
Sorry bro, but none of these are Sawyerisms -- or principles.

Your criticism would be better if you demonstrated a rudimentary understanding of the thing you're attempting to criticise. As it is, discussion with you guys is a bit like trying to explain gravity to a flat-earther.

Ah yes, semantics debates, my favorite form of argument for the sake of arguing. Sorry, but I just don't have time for this level of debate any more. If you can't accept that what Sawyer said here: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67946-josh-sawyer-on-immunities-and-hard-counters/ constitutes a design principle then we don't even speak the same language, in which case, no communication is possible.
 
Unwanted

Janise

Unwanted
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
727
uh8DQRb.png


YyWCgu.gif
 

Brancaleone

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
1,004
Location
Norcia
So what are the conclusions about it?

Is it more "Exercise in Minutiae: The Saga", or "Icewind Dale 3, With Extra Equality of Outcome"?
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
3,144
You can build an uber-squishy paladin

especially noticable are: any beetle fight

You will face high level kobold ambushes that engage you on three levels of the same area

For all of AD&D's mechanical faults, at least it tended to encourage some kind of consistency between gameplay and setting. A paladin was inherently non-squishy; kobolds were inherently weak scavengers. You didn't need loredumps to tell you that, it came forward in simply playing it. Sawyer's philosophy of making each portion of a game as functionally sound as it can possibly be seems to inevitably undermine the way these portions interact (a pure DPS-stat suddenly is treated like physical strength in text adventures, etc.).

talking about sawyerism again feels nice, we should have a review like this again in a couple of years, feels like a reunion of sorts
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
(Of course, everything is relative. It is true that in AD&D there is only one optimal way to distribute your stats per class, and making the wrong choices will give you an unplayable character -- a wizard who can't cast spells, or a fighter who won't do any weapon damage. Why someone would consider a system with only one right way to distribute stats per class good is beyond me though. I mean, why even have stats in a such a system? You might as well bake the bonuses directly into the classes and get rid of the system altogether. Always assuming you're using a point-buy system rather than a genuinely random one; cf. my comment about stats in original tabletop D&D.)

Stat distribution wasn't supposed to be a form of character progression in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. It was supposed to model the intrinsic capabilities of your character. The goal of the system was to allow for a variety of basic ability profiles, not to min/max your super hero. It was part of the strategic matrix - you adapted to your character's limitations and did the best you could with the cards you were given, just like in life. The whole idea of rolling the dice until you had 18/18/18 is considered munchkin behavior and strictly a product of poor Infinity Engine implementation.

The arrogance of thinking that the designers of table top games were that stupid... It gets me every time.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom