Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sentinel]

Even the wizard fight in WM2 isn't that great. You enter the room and you're bombarded/surrounded by some 15 enemies while Concelhaut just spams spells from a distance. The area has virtually no space to maneuver to allow explorations of formation. There's no "countering" anything he does either because counters don't even exist in PoE aside from Priest immunities.

The combat system is just complete poop.

I really don't get this "White March fixed everything" shit that gets constantly passed around here. Unless you consider "you're surrounded, lol!" to be amazing encounter design.

 

[AwesomeButton]

WM was as good as PoE could realistically be, IMO. And IE games were only that great because all those years back, they were a first. Not to mention they themselves (BG at least) had opposition from a grognard angle.

 

[Infinitron]

That's a reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Indiana_Jones_Chronicles

When George Lucas knew how to make prequels! I need to rewatch someday.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Plot twist, Durance's soul is transferred into the body of a little boy. This should allow us to calculate the amount of time between PoE and Deadfire.

 

[Lady_Error]

Even the wizard fight in WM2 isn't that great. You enter the room and you're bombarded/surrounded by some 15 enemies while Concelhaut just spams spells from a distance. The area has virtually no space to maneuver to allow explorations of formation. There's no "countering" anything he does either because counters don't even exist in PoE aside from Priest immunities.

The combat system is just complete poop.

Lack of hard counters is indeed one of the remaining weaknesses, but that alone doesn't make combat "poop".

 

[Mazisky]

The character models and equip look like 100 times better than poe

They look like they're actually getting punched

Wow. Is this a FPS? Third-person action? like any of that shit matters in a RPG Whats next, parrot companion = GOTY? Pathetic that you are manipulated like animals by irrelevant BS which is posted every day on twitter

Again they put more effort in improving visual appearance and graphics than in fixing fundamentally broken core gameplay. The clueless sheeple were cucked by Josh so hard they cant even make that simple observation.

Saying that graphic doesn't matters means having potato pc. Just like small dick guys saying size doesn't matters or ugly fat feminists saying men aren't needed.

Which of those categories you belong to?

 

[TT1]

Plot twist, Durance's soul is transferred into the body of a little boy.

Plot twist: Young Durance is molested by a priest.

 

[luj1]

Pirates of Eternity: Cuckfire will be the same shit as the first game

graphics and superficial BS (look there everybody! cloaks that react to wind! explosions! cute little apples on the table!) + accessibility for morans + populist design are meant to divert attention from the disastrous ruleset, shit combat, lore dumps and zero encounter design.

Let me guess: You didn't play White March 1 & 2.

Actually I did. Version 3.05 to be precise. And what is that supposed to do? How is White Marsh supposed to fix any of those things when it's doomed by the same shit ruleset and misanthropic combat mechanics

I really don't get this "White March fixed everything" shit that gets constantly passed around here.

Just wishful illusion delusion by Sawyer's cock fondlers. It's the only excuse available to them

 

[luj1]

IE games were only that great because all those years back, they were a first.

Well other than a better ruleset, combat, writing, itemization, reactivity, character building and encounter design you are completely right.

 

[Iznaliu]

Let me guess: You didn't play White March 1 & 2.

Wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't played PoE at all.

 

[luj1]

Iznaliu you are a dumb peasant. My biggest mistakes in gaming were playing 1) PoE, 2) Tranny and 3) Numanuma, and thinking it will be fun. Go back to your global warming thread you tool

 

[Lady_Error]

Actually I did. Version 3.05 to be precise. And what is that supposed to do? How is White Marsh supposed to fix any of those things when it's doomed by the same shit ruleset and misanthropic combat mechanics

1. Those mechanics were fixed up and changed too.
2. White March showed that they can do better maps, encounter designs, etc. In short, it was more fun.

 

[Sannom]

OK, haters usually do what haters do and stay the fuck away, who is that luj1 idiot?

 

[luj1]

You are fucking delusional Error

1. Does combat in WM not have Endurance? Does it not have "per encounter" nonsense? Does it not have a gazillion of extraneous combat conditions? Does 1 point of Might still give +3% dmg and 1 point of Con +3% HP? This is a fucking peasant-level ruleset created by a delusional faggot
2. It's fucking negligible. Number of points of interest per map is still pathetic.

 

[Lady_Error]

Try to be less of a tryhard edgelord. If you don't like it, play something else.

 

[Bonerbill]

Wow. Is this a FPS? Third-person action? like any of that shit matters in a RPG Whats next, parrot companion = GOTY? Pathetic that you are manipulated like animals by irrelevant BS which is posted every day on twitter

Again they put more effort in improving visual appearance and graphics than in fixing fundamentally broken core gameplay. The clueless sheeple were cucked by Josh so hard they cant even make that simple observation.

Even in a non action RPG like Pillars, good animations can improve the "feel" of a game a lot.

 

[Rivmusique]

That was always the intent behind Thrust of Tattered Veils but the Pillars 1 Interrupt/Concentration system wasn't clean enough to really promote its use.

All Talents are class-specific now and they always (almost always?) modify existing class abilities/spells/powers. Sub-classes usually change something more fundamental about how the class works. An assassin (rogue) is inherently more fragile but more devastating than a standard rogue in the right circumstances. A ghost heart ranger doesn't have to manage a pet at all until they summon the spirit. For the most part, I think we've done a good job of avoiding sub-classes that feel like they conceptually overlap with multiclass combos. A corpse-eater barbarian doesn't feel like something that overlaps with barbarian + anything else. They just feel like a crazy barbarian who gets more powerful by eating corpses.

There's also another big element that matters: the name. People get hyped about having a name that fits their specific character concept. An conjurer is a wizard, but different. A beguiler is a cipher, but different.

There are other ways we could make this system more flexible, but it would make more sense as a classless system, and that's a bridge too far for a lot of people.

Basic Chunnel posted:
I in no way expect Eothas to be a deliberately villanous character,

Not So Great Man Theory.

In a change from Pillars 1, interrupting an ability (or canceling it) consumes the resources as though it were used.. It doesn't prevent it from being used again, but we do track resources for enemies and, in the case of enemies who use abilities on cooldown, interrupting an ability still puts it into cooldown.

Some sawyer SA quotes.

 

[Iznaliu]

Iznaliu you are a dumb peasant. My biggest mistakes in gaming were playing 1) PoE, 2) Tranny and 3) Numanuma, and thinking it will be fun. Go back to your global warming thread you tool

Se crežei bolä čuza er mizeo otál eř.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Plot twist: Young Durance is molested by a priest.

Of Eothas.

Well other than a better ruleset, combat, writing, itemization, reactivity, character building and encounter design you are completely right.

Mhm, sure thing, sugar. Now replay one of them, whichever you choose, and hold it up to the same scrutiny to which you hold PoE. Be honest with yourself.

 

[Parabalus]

That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. Yeah, some of them are borderline useless (detect evil lol), but they give flavor to magic and classes. Wizard Eye was useful as are the non-combat ones listed by TheSentinel.

You mean this list?

What?
Find Familiar would be cool, but I'd prefer something more akin to Friends/Domination, Identify, Detect Invisibility, Detect Traps, Knock, Power Word - Sleep, Clairvoyance, Detect Illusion/Oracle, Dispel Magic (actually dont remember if POE has this one), Haste/Improved Alacrity, Hold Person, Invisibility 10' Radius/Mislead/Mass Invisibility, Minor Sequencer/Spell Sequencer/Spell Trigger, Polymorph Other, Teleport Field, Wizard Eye, Contingency/Chain Contingency, Wish, Project Image/Simulacrum, Symbol - Death, Time Stop.

Except 1,2,4,5 , (arguably for bypassing stuff) 11 those are all combat spells, and the cheesiest ones at that. What non-combat use of time stop did you find in bg2?

Some of those do exist in PoE, but they're extremely gimped compared to their versions on BG2, to the point where they completely lose what was fun about them/their identity. For example, Alacrity in BG was a party-wide buff that also increased your movespeed. This doesn't exist in PoE.

Pillars has no OoC buffs - that's a great design decision. The DAoM increases combat move speed.

They aren't gimped, wizards are still the strongest class. They just aren't as overpowered, which is again, a great decision.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, there's a reason why when the going gets tough I assume direct control of Aloth and start spamming.
Wizards are the best spell spammers by far. Due to DaoM they cast with no Recovery and with Eldiritch Aim + Merciless Gaze have good Accuracy + crit chance.
With Displaced Image and Arcane Veil are pretty hard to hit as well.

 

[Infinitron]

OK, haters usually do what haters do and stay the fuck away, who is that luj1 idiot?

He's from RPGWatch.

 

[Sizzle]

I know this is probably futile, but ok, I'll bite:

Well other than a better ruleset

The IE games had a better magic system. That's about the only inherent ruleset thing they did better than PoE.

combat

Generally yes, though I'd argue PoE did some classes (i.e. - fighters, rogues, bards chanters) a lot better than the IE games.

writing

Why, yes, all those lovely Minsc & Boo shenanigans. And Jan Jansen turnip jokes. What delicious writing.

itemization

TWM fixed up the situation with items a bit, but yes, I agree, the IE games generally had better items.

reactivity

What reactivity? Seriously, what? Do you join the Thieves Guild or Bodhi? Do you go through the portal to the Underdark, or do you go by ship to the Fish City first?

Face it, the IE games had about as much reactivity as PoE. Which is to say - almost none.

character building

Sorry, you can build a character in more ways in PoE.

encounter design

Like with items, they improved this somewhat in TWM, but you're right, the IE games had a greater variety of critters, and more memorable encounters (though they also had their share of trash mobs, which all of you seem to forget for some reason).

you are completely right.

I know I am, thank you

But seriously, like AwesomeButton said, try holding up the IE games to the same (forced) scrutiny with which you dissect PoE.

I think you'll find that they're not the bastions of wonderful writing, unique character building, PnP role-playing and sublime combat many of you erroneously make them up to be.

 

[Prime Junta]

futile

Yeah. If only there was some way to channel all that diamond-hard bitterness into something productive. Class war, for example.

 

[Haplo]

I know this is probably futile, but ok, I'll bite:

Well other than a better ruleset

The IE games had a better magic system. That's about the only inherent ruleset thing they did better than PoE.

I agree. Other then the wizard/cleric magic, I find PoE's ruleset vastly superior.

combat

Generally yes, though I'd argue PoE did some classes (i.e. - fighters, rogues, bards chanters) a lot better than the IE games.

Not to mention new unique classes, like the Cipher.

Personally I vastly prefer PoE combat to IE combat. Outside mage duels, obviously.
That said, my favorite RTwP combat engine to date might be NWN.
Perhaps PoE2 will change that with improved combat clarity and feedback.

itemization

TWM fixed up the situation with items a bit, but yes, I agree, the IE games generally had better items.

In fact I prefer the itemization of PoE after WM. I find the range of effects much richer and more interesting. Regardless of limited number of hard immunities.

character building

Sorry, you can build a character in more ways in PoE.

Very true. No contest here.

encounter design

Like with items, they improved this somewhat in TWM, but you're right, the IE games had a greater variety of critters, and more memorable encounters (though they also had their share of trash mobs, which all of you seem to forget for some reason).

Also true. Some encounters, particularly in TWM, are very good though.