Honest Question. WRPGs and JRPGs.

[YES!]

I like how people keep talking like my post didn't definitively settle this.

 

[wyes gull]

I don't give enough of a shit about the anime style to let it detain me from a competent game, however (and setting aside JRPGs whose combat consists of variations of that shitty battle dance-type TBS that's so pervasive in the genre, because who the fuck wants to play those?) one often finds some form of obtuse compromise in the gameplay department. Shining Force's strategic component appears interesting enough but is merely skin deep. Most iterations of Tactics Ogre are way too dependent on level and grind (although I seem to remember one exception, Ogre Battle 64, maybe?). Both Rance and Valkyria Chronicles just ignore the tactics they've been instructing the players in for plot convenience and they're far from the only ones; Chronicles especially does such a poor job of this, the player is well within his right to understandably toss the dvd out of the fucking window in one of the occasions it happens.

And they're not exactly bad games. I just feel like they never succeed as RPGs in the same way, say, Fallout does that they make up for it with good strategy gameplay. Advance Wars does... but then it's not a JRPG. I mean, I certainly enjoyed those that I used as examples more than I'm making it sound like, they're just not what I want out of RPGs.

 

[Zombra]

I agree with Viata that classifying a game as j/w RPG has to be based on region rather than mechanics, otherwise we go down a slippery slope of absurd nonsense where games like Wizardry, the grandfather of western cRPGs, are more jRPG now than wRPG.

"Slippery slopes" aren't dangerous as long as reasonable people decline to run sliding down them. I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

 

[Viata]

I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

 

[buru5]

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

That doesn't tell you anything about how the games play and what to expect. You get people saying Zelda is an RPG when you go by this asinine non-label.

 

[Zombra]

I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

Not useful.

#2999 +(9137)- [X]
<kyourek> There was a 23% drop in temperature.
<nappyjallapy> That's almost 25%!
<kyourek> ... That was one of the most worthless comments I've ever heard.

 

[Viata]

I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

Not useful.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

That doesn't tell you anything about how the games play and what to expect. You get people saying Zelda is an RPG when you go by this asinine non-label.

So give me a definition of JRPG that excludes DD and includes DQ, then.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Can´t remember the last JRPG I played (apart from the likes of Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma) that didn't involve some dicking.

 

[vivec]

I don't play all WRPGs. But I don't play *any* JRPG. Turn Based or no. I can't tolerate the 12 yo mentality in stories in general.

 

[buru5]

I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

Not useful.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

That doesn't tell you anything about how the games play and what to expect. You get people saying Zelda is an RPG when you go by this asinine non-label.

So give me a definition of JRPG that excludes DD and includes DQ, then.

RPG made in Japan that follows turned based combat style similar to Dragon Quest with a focus on a linear narrative over free form exploration.

 

[Roguey]

That doesn't tell you anything about how the games play and what to expect. You get people saying Zelda is an RPG when you go by this asinine non-label.

Zelda has always been an action adventure.

 

[pippin]

I find it hilarious when people complain about jrpgs being too anime and they say Valk Chronicles is good, when VC is one of the most anime thing ever made.

Just play the Elminage series.

 

[Zombra]

So give me a definition of JRPG that excludes DD and includes DQ, then.

Like I said before, defining a genre isn't as simple as that. Zebra Mom didn't raise any kids stupid enough to go on the Codex claiming to have a proper definition of JRPG, any more than I'd attempt to define RPG.

If you want me to give my personal take on what a JRPG is (and isn't), I can do that; just ask. But pack a lunch.

 

[Abu Antar]

There are jrpgs with really fun combat. Trials series is one of those. No grinding needed. Grandia is a lot of fun and also requires zero grinding, and so was Legend of Legaia. The SMT games are fun. The press turn system makes stuff interesting enough. I like a lot of Japanese SRPGs, Front Mission, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre and some more. The Arc the Lad games is another example.

There are great turn-based jrpgs if you can look past some stuff.

Final Fantasy V is not my favorite game in the series, but the build variety from the job classes is a lot of fun to mess around with.

 

[Viata]

RPG made in Japan that follows turned based combat style similar to Dragon Quest with a focus on a linear narrative over free form exploration.

So DQ would not even be included in JRPG.

 

[Kea]

Most JRPGs are too belarded with cutscenes, are too basic in gameplay, too real-time, or are just too slow in general for my taste. A fight where you wipe out the opposition in one round shouldn't take more than twenty seconds, but apparently mainstream devs favour fancy animations more than keeping the game moving.

WRT influences on JRPGs, AD&D was at least as large an influence as Dragon Quest on the original Final Fantasy. The enemies are almost all lifted from the Monster Manual, it uses a very similar spell charge system, and the scenario is allegedly based on a D&D campaign one of the devs had run. Even the spells are farily direct interpretations of D&D magic: there's several spells which have 100% accuracy if the target is below 300 hitpoints (Power Word), and the resurrection/anti-stoning spells can't be cast during combat, which approximates how Raise Dead and the like have a very long casting time.

 

[buru5]

So DQ would not even be included in JRPG.

DQ was a template for the genre which eventually went through a rapid decline into what we know as JRPGs todays. Like I said earlier, there are exceptions to every rule but I think a JRPG should have some form of turn based combat to be considered.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

But was it influential? According to Wikipedia PnP didn't become popular in Japan until after Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy popularized RPG's.

The original Final Fantasy, released in Japan in 1987 and in America in 1990, was heavily ripped off Dungeons & Dragons, starting with the six character classes: White Mage = Cleric, Black Mage = Magic-User, Fighter and Thief are exactly what they say, Red Mage is a multi-classed Fighter/Cleric/Mage, and Black Belt is the Monk character class introduced in Supplement II: Blackmoor and included in the first edition of AD&D (and making a belated appearance in BECMI D&D as the optional Mystic class). Spells are similarly divided between white magic (i.e. clerical) and black magic, with a pseudo-Vancian memorization similar to that found in D&D, and spells similar to those found in D&D. Moreover, a great many monsters are transparently cloned from their D&D versions, with for example, trolls having green skin, regeneration, and weakness to fire. And a few monsters originating in D&D or AD&D make an appearance, albeit with the names changed in the American release, e.g. mind flayers ("mage"), beholders ("evil eye", which also had its sprite altered in the American version to replace the tentacle-eyes with normal tentacles), and mariliths ("Kary").

Mind Flayer / Mage

Beholder / Evil Eye

Marilith / Kary

 

[Hyperion]

What makes DD not JRPG?

Based on the fact that they played it, and enjoyed it but are far too insecure to admit they like a JRPG. Same shit with the Souls games. You have bro gamers, and mega autismo WRPG fans who think liking a JRPG is going to hurt their street cred. Changing definitions of words and phrases is all the rage these days, so why not have it bleed into RPGs too?

Also, games like The Last Remnant, Shining in the Darkness / the Holy Ark, The 7th Saga, Shadow Hearts, and Ogre Battle, while they look distinctly Japanese aren't cringey animu styles, and have for the most part great combat systems. Ogre Battle, and The Last Remnant (all SaGa games for that matter) have pretty convoluted mechanics that min/maxing human calculators won't like, but they aren't 'Smash A to Victoly.'

Then you have a game like Final Fantasy 12, which makes people cry 'MMO,' yet uses basic RTwP mechanics and was the main inspiration for Dragon Age: Origins' tactics system, and combat for the console versions. Plus, you've got the Zodiac Job edition for good character customization, further increased with bonuses gotten via Espers, and it *should* sate those who don't mind RTwP RPG's, but it's still just a JRPG.

I also consider the monster design in JRPGs like SMT, Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne / Souls, the Wizardry clones, and the ones I listed above to be absolutely stellar, which most WRPGs can't touch.

 

[Background Character]

I can't wait to grind 100 hours to max level then another 100 to get all the special/ultimate weapons, finish the game and then do it all over again to defeat the bonus secret boss and get the true ending+™

 

[an Administrator]

The idea of controling a party of toddlers is a major turn off.

Why do you hate cute 2D little girls

 

[sullynathan]

don't JRPG's have the best real-time combat and best turn based combat?

 

[mondblut]

I'd rather have a useful term that assumes some common sense than a rigid one rendered meaningless.

Exactly why we say JRPG are RPG made in Japan.

So the trillion of RPGmaker shitstains on Steam are not JRPGs despite being carbon copies of nintentard JRPGs, because they were made by american and european weeaboos? Very useful term indeed.

 

[YES!]

The idea of controling a party of toddlers is a major turn off.

Why do you hate cute 2D little girls

Because he probably isn't a pedophile or a child, like all that people that would.

 

[Hyperion]

So the trillion of RPGmaker shitstains on Steam are not JRPGs despite being carbon copies of nintentard JRPGs, because they were made by american and european weeaboos? Very useful term indeed.

RPGMaker is Japanese software, made specifically for creating....JRPG's, so yeah they're JRPG's that happen to be made by weeb scum.